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Post by jmilton on Feb 3, 2010 10:49:45 GMT -5
Well, at least the TI chip does decode DSD, while the Cirrus chip needs the LPCM stream. Best regards, Ole Willy Tuv Not entirely true. The TI Chips down-convert to PCM after the DSD enters the receiver/preamp for bass management and whatever post processing occurs. The Cirrus chips are capable of this, but sounds like there is a Sony licensing issue at play. www.ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/integra_dtr-99_av_receiver/It really makes no difference. The 5.1 DSD signal has to get converted to PCM at some point for bass management and other time alignment needs. If it didn't go through this process, people with anything but large speakers and equidistant placement would be screwed. The only exception to this were the first 2 channel SACD players from Sony that took the native signal and outputted via analog from the player. So if the player sends DSD or PCM, it really makes no difference because it is going to PCM eventually. Kal Rubinsion did a writeup on the 9.8 and preferred the PCM conversion in the OPPO player. He also noted that the preamp appeared to down convert the DSD signal to 44.1khz resolution. This is pretty consistent with Lonnie's comments that the Cirrus solution can run at higher resolutions and also do post processing on top. www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/108mitr/index2.html The Oppo 980H is sending DSD to the UMC-1 and it gets converted to PCM. I can have the Oppo convert it to PCM and send it, but either way, it gets to become PCM for post processing. Either way I send it, it sounds great....equal to the 7.1 analog outs, except bass mgt. can now be correctly applied to my SACD collection. People kept arguing that the Oppo could not send DSD or the UMC could not take DSD directly. Hey! I'm doing it!! And with HDMI, I can now say, "Look Ma...no wires!"  |
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Post by pynchon on Feb 3, 2010 12:31:01 GMT -5
Fortunately I can wait...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2010 12:32:13 GMT -5
so help me out here....if my Oppo BDP-83 is sending a DSD signal to my Yamaha RXV-665, and the display on the Yamaha says "DSD" while playing a disk, is the Yammy processing the signal? or is the Oppo processing it ?
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Post by solidstate on Feb 3, 2010 12:42:18 GMT -5
DSD/SACD is really history at this point. It really didn't play out due to the issues discussed before for multichannel, usable digital transport bus (HDMI1.2 was to late and a decent analog section was to expensive for mass market) and licensing BS. Now that we have Blueray audio disks and the new loss-less codecs I don't see any future for DSD other than for studio work IE Ed's converters at EMMlabs etc. It's a shame really as Sony played a large part in it's demise due to tricky licensing BS though the best studios in the world are using EMMlabs converters and are mastering a lot in DSD using Ed's gear.
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Post by Mischief on Feb 3, 2010 12:54:24 GMT -5
SACD has seen a pretty impressive comeback with audiophiles over the last year. While it is all but dead with mainstream music, the jazz and classical crowds are buying it as fast as they can put them out. It is a niche but has started to grow again.
Blu-Ray music has yet to appear with the exception of the Neil Young set and a handful of classic titles. I can't prove but believe the primary target for hi-res music hasn't been impressed with the capabilities of the current players for stereo listening. The Oppo and a few other players are doing a great job of changing that but the high end crowd, the one that seems to be buying hi-res isn't ready to believe a sub-$1k player is worthy. This crowd is slow to move and the music biz isn't in a hurry to back Blu.
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Post by solidstate on Feb 3, 2010 13:07:02 GMT -5
Well the music biz should be as the only potentially secure format is Blueray at this point. I actually know a lot about the history of this because a good friend of mine I grew up with in my home town works for Ed and they worked heavily almost as a thinktank/R&D for Sony through the late 90s on SACD. I was living in Calgary at the time and visited them during that period. The main problem with consumers was the transport was simply to expensive to implement in a player for mass adoption. If the analog section was sub-par then the benefits would be lost. The only way to have a cheap enough transport bus was for it to be digital. Well HDMI1.2, as I said was a little late to the game. So for some years the only way to really take advantage of SACD was to use analog outs from transport and these players were and still are very expensive due to the expensive analog section. Points taken on the comments above as for 5.1 multichannel the only real way to transport it is via analog due to bass management. HDMI 1.2 DSD transport is best used for stereo DSD. Really man I'd just rather have distro done in Blueray at 24/192Khz like the Neil Young stuff. That should be a marker in history as to where this should go for distribution. Screw SACD IMHO EMMlabs work isn't lost as we get initial studio capture in the format. Really this is how it will play out... You just watch! er listen! |
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Post by randyj on Feb 3, 2010 13:16:15 GMT -5
I haven't had problems with my 885 running hot. Inadequate ventilation might be the problem.
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Post by Mr. Ben on Feb 3, 2010 13:31:36 GMT -5
SACD has seen a pretty impressive comeback with audiophiles over the last year. While it is all but dead with mainstream music, the jazz and classical crowds are buying it as fast as they can put them out. It is a niche but has started to grow again. I've noticed a lot of blue note SACD releases recently. I'm very happy about that. |
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Post by teedub21 on Feb 3, 2010 13:57:52 GMT -5
Ordered my 5507 for $1639 shipped. No delivery until March first though. I signed up on the pre-order list for the UMC1 but never got a confirmation, but I was late to that game. I got concerned that when/if a UMC 1 came available to me it wouldn't be until late spring and I didn't want to wait that long. If anyone can convince me I could get one sooner I'd cancel the order for the Onkyo and save myself a grand. Well, I spoke to customer service today and she has me down for a UMC, I just never got my confirmation. I called and cancelled the order for my Onkyo 5507. Hope I don't regret it! I decided I don't need all the gidgets and gadgets the Onkyo offers and am more interested in sq. I think when the issues get ironed out on the UMC (which sounds like they are) it will be a great pre/pro for the money. Heck, for the $1000 I'll save I can buy some nice salamander furniture to put all the equipment in. |
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RadTech
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Post by RadTech on Feb 3, 2010 14:03:22 GMT -5
The Onkyo receivers run hot, not the preamps. My Integra DTC-9.8 can heat a 12' x 15' room....easily  No doubt I have two 805s being strictly used as a pre, one upstairs and, the other down. I live in Florida and, this season during cold snaps I cozy right up near one of my 805s, not the fireplace. |
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Post by red5ive on Feb 3, 2010 14:03:54 GMT -5
That's what I said! The Oppo 980H is sending DSD to the UMC-1 and it gets converted to PCM. I can have the Oppo convert it to PCM and send it, but either way, it gets to become PCM for post processing. Either way I send it, it sounds great....equal to the 7.1 analog outs, except bass mgt. can now be correctly applied to my SACD collection. People kept arguing that the Oppo could not send DSD or the UMC could not take DSD directly. Hey! I'm doing it!! And with HDMI, I can now say, "Look Ma...no wires!" I tried sending the raw dsd stream as well to the UMC and it was converted to PCM. |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 3, 2010 14:05:50 GMT -5
DSD/SACD is really history at this point. It really didn't play out due to the issues discussed before for multichannel, usable digital transport bus (HDMI1.2 was to late and a decent analog section was to expensive for mass market) and licensing BS. Now that we have Blueray audio disks and the new loss-less codecs I don't see any future for DSD other than for studio work IE Ed's converters at EMMlabs etc. It's a shame really as Sony played a large part in it's demise due to tricky licensing BS though the best studios in the world are using EMMlabs converters and are mastering a lot in DSD using Ed's gear. History? Really? Is that so? www.sa-cd.net/ |
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Post by red5ive on Feb 3, 2010 14:06:33 GMT -5
SACD has seen a pretty impressive comeback with audiophiles over the last year. While it is all but dead with mainstream music, the jazz and classical crowds are buying it as fast as they can put them out. It is a niche but has started to grow again. I've noticed a lot of blue note SACD releases recently. I'm very happy about that. Unless things have changed since I last read on it, Sony has decided to include SACD support again with their upcoming player lineup. I believe Spring and Summer should bring a handful of players - including a couple of HTIB models, believe it or not. I'd guess they'd have reason to do it. |
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Post by Woodpecker on Feb 3, 2010 14:42:35 GMT -5
Well the music biz should be as the only potentially secure format is Blueray at this point. I actually know a lot about the history of this because a good friend of mine I grew up with in my home town works for Ed and they worked heavily almost as a thinktank/R&D for Sony through the late 90s on SACD. I was living in Calgary at the time and visited them during that period. The main problem with consumers was the transport was simply to expensive to implement in a player for mass adoption. If the analog section was sub-par then the benefits would be lost. The only way to have a cheap enough transport bus was for it to be digital. Well HDMI1.2, as I said was a little late to the game. So for some years the only way to really take advantage of SACD was to use analog outs from transport and these players were and still are very expensive due to the expensive analog section. Points taken on the comments above as for 5.1 multichannel the only real way to transport it is via analog due to bass management. HDMI 1.2 DSD transport is best used for stereo DSD. Really man I'd just rather have distro done in Blueray at 24/192Khz like the Neil Young stuff. That should be a marker in history as to where this should go for distribution. Screw SACD IMHO EMMlabs work isn't lost as we get initial studio capture in the format. Really this is how it will play out... You just watch! er listen! I have many sacd's and dvd audio discs. Like you said, HDMI 1.2 was a little late to the plate, but it certainly has not been forgot about. The real crime here is that more artist do not put their stuff out on a higher res format. I do believe (and hope) it happens that the popularity of bluray will bring about more artists and record labels looking into it. Bluray has upped the video and the audio to a whole new level. With bluray players being way more affordable than any first or second generation sacd or dvd-a player, the market should be there. Except for the whole mp3 crowd of course! Either way, I will always keep my sacd's and dvd-a discs forever and will continue to buy any worthwhile titles. Lets just hope we can see a glimmer of hope on the bluray horizon for hi res music... |
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Post by beekermartin on Feb 3, 2010 15:49:19 GMT -5
My 886 was running warm above the HDMI card. I picked up this: www.coolerguys.com/comcool.html It now runs cool to the touch and the fan is inaudible. It isn't necessary but I prefer to keep my electronics as cool as possible. I would use the same fan if I got the UMC-1. I imagine the UMC-1 also runs fairly warm above the HDMI/video board. This is normal. |
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topcat
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Post by topcat on Feb 3, 2010 17:08:59 GMT -5
My 886 was running warm above the HDMI card. I picked up this: www.coolerguys.com/comcool.html It now runs cool to the touch and the fan is inaudible. It isn't necessary but I prefer to keep my electronics as cool as possible. I would use the same fan if I got the UMC-1. I imagine the UMC-1 also runs fairly warm above the HDMI/video board. This is normal. I never gave it thought before but since you mentioned it I checked the heat from my UMC-1 and it is very cool. I can feel a little bit of warmth but much lower than I would have thought. I am not using any kind of external cooling...it does not need it. Thomas |
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Post by beekermartin on Feb 3, 2010 17:21:41 GMT -5
My 886 was running warm above the HDMI card. I picked up this: www.coolerguys.com/comcool.html It now runs cool to the touch and the fan is inaudible. It isn't necessary but I prefer to keep my electronics as cool as possible. I would use the same fan if I got the UMC-1. I imagine the UMC-1 also runs fairly warm above the HDMI/video board. This is normal. I never gave it thought before but since you mentioned it I checked the heat from my UMC-1 and it is very cool. I can feel a little bit of warmth but much lower than I would have thought. I am not using any kind of external cooling...it does not need it. Thomas Please don't misunderstand me. The 886 doesn't need it either. It never got hot just warm. I've been building my own computers for years so I know the advantage of keeping things cool. I added the fan because I only have @3 inches of clearance above the 886. It isn't necessary but I prefer to keep it running as cool as possible. Some of Onkyo's receivers, ex. 805, do run very hot and I wouldn't recommend running them without an external fan. That is not the case with the 886. The UMC may not heat up as much but what causes it to heat up may vary. If you are using the video scaler and decoding HD codecs I imagine it will get warmer than when playing a cd. Just like how a computer CPU or video card heat up when they are being pushed. The video/audio chips produce heat on all modern AVR/processors. Maybe the UMC has better cooling than others. I still imagine after a long movie using the video scaling and audio decoding chips the UMC will get at least a bit warm. Of course I could be completely wrong and the UMC runs as cool as a popsicle. |
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Post by moe on Feb 3, 2010 18:03:37 GMT -5
The umc is barely warm after a few hours,my 805 heats the room in an hour,it even has a temp guage 65 degrees c,that's smokin',it still works though,for now.I had another that burned out,on an open shelf.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2010 0:11:54 GMT -5
Thanks Jim for the link. Looks like there is some nice classical music there. I think I'll make a Liszt. |
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Post by red5ive on Feb 4, 2010 0:47:48 GMT -5
Thanks Jim for the link. Looks like there is some nice classical music there. I think I'll make a Liszt. You'll be Bach for more. |
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