Hows the analog section?

[nickwin]

I haven't really heard much about the analog section of the UMC. I plan on using the L and R 7.1 ins with my ERC-1 to make use of the ERC-1s DAC. For people who have their UMC already, hows the analog section compare to what you had before? I'm interested in how it compares to the "direct" section of the big AVR's (Onkyo, Denon, Pio...) as well as how it compares to dedicated analog preamps (like the USP-1 for example)

[Chris]

Feb 12, 2010 9:45:46 GMT -5 nickwin said:

I plan on using the L and R 7.1 ins with my ERC-1 to make use of the ERC-1s DAC.

Well according to Lonnie, you are no longer limited to using just the 7.1 inputs for pure analog direct. Apparently, any of the analog inputs can be made pure analog by selecting the "direct" option. This was revealed in another thread and is terrific news and is the way I always expected things to work.

I started a thread months ago arguing that a two channel source direct excluding unnecessary A/D and D/A conversion made sense. I was told at that time that all conversations with Emotiva staff indicated this would not be so. Somehow, with the release of the UMC-1 and updated firmware, we now have the very welcome ability to use any of the analog inputs now. I am quite happy about this.

I get my UMC-1 on Monday, Feb 15, so I will be able to test this on my own.

-CB

[powerwindow]

Feb 12, 2010 9:45:46 GMT -5 nickwin said:

I haven't really heard much about the analog section of the UMC. I plan on using the L and R 7.1 ins with my ERC-1 to make use of the ERC-1s DAC. For people who have their UMC already, hows the analog section compare to what you had before? I'm interested in how it compares to the "direct" section of the big AVR's (Onkyo, Denon, Pio...) as well as how it compares to dedicated analog preamps (like the USP-1 for example)

^+1 I'm interested too.

[gocolts]

Feb 12, 2010 12:47:31 GMT -5 Chris said:

Feb 12, 2010 9:45:46 GMT -5 nickwin said:

I plan on using the L and R 7.1 ins with my ERC-1 to make use of the ERC-1s DAC.

Well according to Lonnie, you are no longer limited to using just the 7.1 inputs for pure analog direct. Apparently, any of the analog inputs can be made pure analog by selecting the "direct" option. This was revealed in another thread and is terrific news and is the way I always expected things to work.

I started a thread months ago arguing that a two channel source direct excluding unnecessary A/D and D/A conversion made sense. I was told at that time that all conversations with Emotiva staff indicated this would not be so. Somehow, with the release of the UMC-1 and updated firmware, we now have the very welcome ability to use any of the analog inputs now. I am quite happy about this.

I get my UMC-1 on Monday, Feb 15, so I will be able to test this on my own.

-CB

As long as you're ok not having bass management for a separate subwoofer, than I would agree this is a welcome addition.

[viking20]

I been dying to hear a review on the analog section. I want to know if I should go buy a Integra 40.1 or wait for the UMC-1

[nickwin]

Feb 12, 2010 12:47:31 GMT -5 Chris said:

Feb 12, 2010 9:45:46 GMT -5 nickwin said:

I plan on using the L and R 7.1 ins with my ERC-1 to make use of the ERC-1s DAC.

Well according to Lonnie, you are no longer limited to using just the 7.1 inputs for pure analog direct. Apparently, any of the analog inputs can be made pure analog by selecting the "direct" option. This was revealed in another thread and is terrific news and is the way I always expected things to work.

I started a thread months ago arguing that a two channel source direct excluding unnecessary A/D and D/A conversion made sense. I was told at that time that all conversations with Emotiva staff indicated this would not be so. Somehow, with the release of the UMC-1 and updated firmware, we now have the very welcome ability to use any of the analog inputs now. I am quite happy about this.

I get my UMC-1 on Monday, Feb 15, so I will be able to test this on my own.

-CB

This is good news. If this is the case you will be able to switch back and forth between analog direct and normal mode (for bass management and EQ) without having to move any wires. Is there a direct button on the remote, or are you going to have to get into the menus to switch between direct and regular stereo?

Back to my OP, can anyone comment on how direct sounds on the UMC? A good analog section has been one of the main benefits of the UMC over similarly priced AVRs (at least IMO), I'm really surprised I havnt heard more about it by now...

[nickwin]

Feb 12, 2010 13:26:39 GMT -5 gocolts said:

Feb 12, 2010 12:47:31 GMT -5 Chris said:

Well according to Lonnie, you are no longer limited to using just the 7.1 inputs for pure analog direct. Apparently, any of the analog inputs can be made pure analog by selecting the "direct" option. This was revealed in another thread and is terrific news and is the way I always expected things to work.

I started a thread months ago arguing that a two channel source direct excluding unnecessary A/D and D/A conversion made sense. I was told at that time that all conversations with Emotiva staff indicated this would not be so. Somehow, with the release of the UMC-1 and updated firmware, we now have the very welcome ability to use any of the analog inputs now. I am quite happy about this.

I get my UMC-1 on Monday, Feb 15, so I will be able to test this on my own.

-CB

As long as you're ok not having bass management for a separate subwoofer, than I would agree this is a welcome addition.

Its a welcome addition even if you DO want to use bass management because now you have the OPTION to use pure analog when you want, and DSP when you need bass management and EQ. Before, if you were using the 7.1 ins there was NO DSP, and if you were using the the other analog inputs there was no way to get direct with out actually walking up the the UMC and moving the wires.

[nickwin]

Is no one using the analog section? Or is it just not worth commenting on?

[mdanderson]

Feb 13, 2010 11:58:41 GMT -5 nickwin said:

Is no one using the analog section? Or is it just not worth commenting on?

I have used the 7.1 analog inputs for 2 channel music and it sounds very nice. I just can't get any bass output though. This is due to the 7.1 analog inputs being straight pass thru with no bass mgmt. I may just stick with the hdmi inputs.

[Bruce]

I am using DIRECT MODE for 2 ch music and it sounds awesome.I have Definitive Mythos ST which have a sub in each speaker and i run them FULL with no LFE.I can not use my EPIK EMPIRE in this mode and the sound is still great as the bass comes from my Mythos ST.I also run the stero mode using my EMPIRE sub which also sounds great.I just did the upgrade and the UMC-1 sounds a lot better in music and movies and is the buy of the century for all it puts out.

[nickwin]

Feb 13, 2010 15:58:56 GMT -5 Bruce said:

I am using DIRECT MODE for 2 ch music and it sounds awesome.I have Definitive Mythos ST which have a sub in each speaker and i run them FULL with no LFE.I can not use my EPIK EMPIRE in this mode and the sound is still great as the bass comes from my Mythos ST.I also run the stero mode using my EMPIRE sub which also sounds great.I just did the upgrade and the UMC-1 sounds a lot better in music and movies and is the buy of the century for all it puts out.

Bruce, what were you using as a pre pro before you got your UMC?

BTW you system looks awesome! How are you liking the EMPIRE?

[Chris]

Feb 13, 2010 11:58:41 GMT -5 nickwin said:

Is no one using the analog section? Or is it just not worth commenting on?

I got my UMC-1 today. Two days ahead of schedule! Hooray.

Major reorg of my HT System. You should see the pile of analog cables I have now jettisoned!

I am an analog two channel audiophile but I also love surround sound and movies. The UMC-1 replaces a nearly ten year old McCormack MAP-1. The Map-1 is an all analog multi-channel preamp. It has held up well but it does no surround sound processing apart from a proprietary Hafler ambiance type circuit (look that one up kiddies!) called "ARM". If I didn't have such an expansive system with multiple HDMI sources I could probably have stayed with the MAP-1. But things progress and here I am with the UMC-1.

So far I only have my Fios cable and my Logitech Squeezebox Duet hooked up. The sound is wonderful. I know there's been a lot of hand wringing about this feature or that but man this thing punches way above its pay grade when it comes to sound quality. I don't think I am taking a step backward from the MAP-1. The UMC-1 is also ghostly quiet. We're talking tomb dark quiet time. I've been spinning my own playlist from my 2 terrabytes of FLAC lossless music. I listened to a bit of Pat Metheny's new Orchestrion CD, then moved on to Willy Porter's most recent CD. I just saw him at Wolftrap Barns just a couple of months ago. This CD puts you right there in the studio with him. Next cue up some Clay Gibberson Trio and a great jazz treatment of Neil Young's "Don't Let It Bring You Down". The opening bass intro again puts the musicians in the room with me. This leads to some more great jazz interpretations. This time the Marcin Wasilewski Trio on ECM and their stunning cover of Bjork's "Hyperballad". Man the cymbal work here just shimmers just as Manfred Eicher at ECM likes it. Staying in the jazz interpretation vein I pull up guitarist Tim Miller's rendering of "Walking on the Moon". The changes on this kill me. I'm now listening to Kurt Rosenwinkel's new standards trio disk.

All of the listening is done with the direct mode engaged. So I should be going straight through the DACs with no other processing and out to the XPA-5 and the Martin Logan Vantage. I previously ran my digital through a Benchmark DAC-1. Again, I don't think I am treading water going straight to the UMC-1.

It's early days but I have only good things to report about the UMC-1 sound quality.

Tommorrow, I hope to get the turntable and DVD/Bluy-Ray players hooked up. Then I'll see how transparent the UMC-1 really is.

-CB

[snodog]

That is awesome to hear ctbarker. I get mine on Monday cant wait to put it to some solid use!

[roadrunner]

So far I have seen a hand full of mini-reviews on the sound quality of the UMC-1's analog output. They are scattered over several different threads, but so far everyone who has posted on the topic have raved about the UMC-1.

The previous generation of Emotiva pre/pro all received top notch reviews on their sound quality... by users and Pro Reviewers alike. Lonnie has repeatedly told us the UMC-1 sounds far better than any of their prior offerings. I spent many hours listening to audiophile grade recordings and can honestly say you will be very impressed with the UMC-1's sound quality -- analog or digital.

If music is important to you, I venture to say you will LOVE listening through the UMC-1. Remember, Emotiva has a 30-day trial available to you. Use it and see for yourself in the comfort of your home. If you decide it is not for you simply return it -- no questions asked. The UMC-1 is one incredible bargain. See for yourself. ;D

[Bruce]

Feb 13, 2010 20:01:22 GMT -5 nickwin said:

Feb 13, 2010 15:58:56 GMT -5 Bruce said:

I am using DIRECT MODE for 2 ch music and it sounds awesome.I have Definitive Mythos ST which have a sub in each speaker and i run them FULL with no LFE.I can not use my EPIK EMPIRE in this mode and the sound is still great as the bass comes from my Mythos ST.I also run the stereo mode using my EMPIRE sub which also sounds great.I just did the upgrade and the UMC-1 sounds a lot better in music and movies and is the buy of the century for all it puts out.

Bruce, what were you using as a pre pro before you got your UMC?

BTW you system looks awesome! How are you liking the EMPIRE?

I had a Integra 9.8 Processor and it CAN NOT compare to the UMC-1 in sound quality.This unit had all of the new features but had clicking sound when switching and needed many upgrades from the start.My EPIK EMPIRE is awesome in deep bass and also in mid bass.When using for BluRay in hi def sound it knocks you right in the chest with powerfull bass.It is a steal for the sale price of $799 and just as cheap for 2 at the sale price.I am loving the UMC-1 for MUSIC and MOVIES and as the same as my EMPIRE the STEAL of the century for the sound it produces.If i could only get the new remote so i can LISTEN to my USP-1 as i can not fire it up as it is in the same stand as my UMC-1 and screws up the remote for the USP-1.This is not a good situation for all the USP-1 owners which have their units in the SAME stand and YES they did SCREW UP the remote situation and we should not have to pay for a new remote as i have seen a NEW remote for the UMC-1 will be shipping in a few weeks.

[viking20]

Thanks ctbarker for the thorough review. I have a question for you. I have music hall 25.2 dac that is heavily modified that is fed from Appletv and it sounds great. From your review, it sounds like the DAC in the UMC-1 is as good as the benchmark. This would be great if I could eliminate the music hall since the complexity drives my wife crazy. Are you going to eliminate the benchmark dac from your system and go directly to the umc-1?

[Chris]

Feb 14, 2010 9:33:51 GMT -5 viking20 said:

it sounds like the DAC in the UMC-1 is as good as the benchmark?

Glad my listening notes were useful.

As good as the Benchmark is, I really don't think I am going to miss it in my system going forward. I usually ran all my two channel digital sources through the DAC-1 into my MAP-1 but I also tried at one point going direct from the DAC-1 straight to the Amp since the DAC-1 has a POT. While the sound was stupendous, I really do think I am getting all the detail and dynamics using just the UMC-1 DACs. As I listened to my favorite recordings, I listened intently and heard all the little details and cues that I expect from a high resolution system. I've only had this up and running one day but initial impressions are very promising.

I understand your desire to simplify. I discarded literally 30+ analog cables. Things had just gotten out of hand with my system and the UMC-1 really helps tame things by using HDMI and optical cables for most everything. The only analog cable I have left is the phono pair for my turntable. My Merrill modified AR Turntable with Morch UP-4 and Benz Glider has been with me nearly thirty years and it is pretty revealing. It will be the acid test.

I also look forward to listening to SACD and DVD-A recordings from the Oppo 983 over HDMI. I've got some killer multi-channel recordings such as LAGQ, new King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, John Adams, and No-Man to test with.

I'll try to report back as I progress. BTW, I'm probably going to skip the EMO-Q for a while. I'm just not that into EQ. I lived without it all these years. I think my system is of sufficient quality that it is not a requirement. I've spent a lot of time with speaker placement and think I am getting pretty decent sound as is. At some point I'll take a look at EMO-Q to see if it can do anything for me but I just don't really need it at this point.

-CB

[viking20]

Thanks CB. It is nice to know I can possibly fund most of the UMC-1 by selling my Music Hall DAC. TQ.

[powerwindow]

Feb 14, 2010 11:47:07 GMT -5 viking20 said:

Thanks CB. It is nice to know I can possibly fund most of the UMC-1 by selling my Music Hall DAC. TQ.

^^ I might be interested.

[nickwin]

Well, I got my UMC on Monday as expected, but ironically (and disappointingly) I am getting no video signal coming out of my UMC over HDMI. I talked to a tech for a long while about the issue and we couldn't find anything out of the ordinary, so he told me that my UMC was probably defective . (Now I'm not so sure, as another UMC owner has posted a similar problem, except his video started to work randomly a day later).

So, for lack of other options, I have been listening to A LOT of 2 channel over the UMC for the past few days. I've got to say this thing sounds phenomenal. I didn't really know what to expect with the UMC in terms of stereo performance, but it has really blown away all of my expectations. It it HUGE improvement over any AVR I used in this regard.

I've owned the same pair of speakers for about 7 years now, and I have been constantly upgrading and swapping out equipment during that time (so I know what kind of changes to expect in sound when changing gear). My system was strictly analog 2 channel until about a year ago. IMO my system sounds every bit as good (in some cases better) with the UMC as it did with dedicated stereo pre amps. The UMC sounds very similar to the PS Audio PCA-2 preamp that I had in my system up until about a year ago. That really says a lot considering that the PCA-2 was a $2000 dedicated analog preamp.

Just prior to getting my UMC I was temporarily using an older Denon AVR, the 3805. Granted the 3805 is really outdated now, but I honestly don't think that the analog section in AVR's has improved drastically between then and now. The improvement going form the 3805 to the the UMC was really astounding. It was immediately evident that the UMC was in a whole different league. (like I said before, the UMC sounds a lot more like the PCA-2 than it does the Denon AVR).

I've been going through my CD collection like crazy because EVERYTHING I throw at the UMC sounds amazing. I'm consistantly hearing parts of songs that I have never even noticed before. One of the first CD's I listened to was Radioheads Amnesiac. That CD is full of subtle electronic sounds in the background, and the UMC brought every little one out. Pat Methaney's The Way Up, which seems to sound good on almost any system was absolutely glorious on the UMC. The only way I can describe it is that it sounded as close to hearing it live, in person as my system has ever sounded.

I have to admit, that once all of the "glitches" and issues started to pop up on the forum, I almost thought about just picking up an AVR to use as a pre-pro instead, but after listening extensivly the UMC, there is no way I would do that. I obviously have not heard every AVR out there (but I have heard many from all of the big names) but IMO there no way any of the standard AVR's (Onkyo, Denon, Pio, Yamaha) are going to match the performance of the UMC in the realm of stereo.

Now only if I could get some video to my projector!