UMC-1 and SD TV

[solomente]

I had been using the UMC-1 in video passthrough mode since I don't find the video processing to be beneficial. In my view, it offers some pluses on some 480 content (and some minuses), and slightly degrades a 1080p signal. Since the setting is global, I've been using it in passthrough.

Anyway, point is that when I flip the channel to an SD station (480i), the UMC-1 says the input resolution isn't supported so it sets it to 480p. Herein lies the problem. It is then set to 480p for everything, so when I switch to an HD station or my blu ray player, I get to watch it in 480p. I have to manually flip back to passthrough to get back to the correct resolution. This isn't the end of the world, but it's really annoying and it's a deal breaker to expect my fiance to figure that out. I tried using Auto and 1080p 60 video settings (despite the signal degradation I mentioned), and those are spotty at best. At least 1/3rd of the time when I switch resolutions of the input signal - like switch from an SD to an HD channel - I just end up with audio plus a white static screen. Nothing corrects this other than turning the UMC-1 off and on again. Sometimes it takes 2 power cycles to fix it.

So what I'm left with is Auto/1080p 60 settings unusable, so I use passthrough and end up watching everything in 480p as soon as I pass by an SD channel. Am I missing something obvious here? This is such an issue for me, I'm surprised I haven't read about this in other posts. And by the way, I am using the latest firmware update from earlier in the week.

Thanks

[TaT]

Get the update and it will fix this problem.

[solomente]

As noted in my first post, I already have the update. I'm not talking about when I first turn the unit on, I'm talking about when it's already on and set to passthrough, it reverts to 480p when you turn on an SD channel. This isn't the problem where it reverted to 480 on first turn on.

[bootman]

So your STB is set to pass through also?
(since it isn't scaling anything at all right now.)

Set the STB to output 1080i and let it handle the SD switching.
This issue is not unique to the UMC but is exaggerated by only having one global video setting.

[solomente]

Ok thanks. Not the answer I was looking for, since I find the video quality suffers significantly if I set the STB to one resolution, plus it screws up the ability to use aspect ratio to control the black bars on the side of SD channels. I guess this is just a limitation I'll have to decide is worth the trouble.

[bootman]

Feb 14, 2010 17:23:17 GMT -5 solomente said:

Ok thanks. Not the answer I was looking for, since I find the video quality suffers significantly if I set the STB to one resolution, plus it screws up the ability to use aspect ratio to control the black bars on the side of SD channels. I guess this is just a limitation I'll have to decide is worth the trouble.

Ok, I was somehow under the impression that you felt the UMC did not do as good of a job upconverting SD material as the UMC. (besides all of the switching problems)

My apologies.

In my cable system, just about every one of the channels that I regularly watch is available in HD. (720p or 1080i)
I rarely if ever watch a SD channel anymore. Its not needed.

Are you having similar issues with DVD material at 480p?

[solomente]

No, my blu ray player upconverts them to 1080p. The issue is SDTV and the STB does an awful job of upconverting. Plus when it does, I'm stuck with the bars on the side of the screen. I prefer the stretched aspect ratio to the bars, particularly since I have a plasma and don't want to spend much time with bars on the side of the screen. Anyway I gave up. This on top of the other problems is enough for me. Already disassembled the system and put my old processor back in place.

[loopinfool]

Feb 14, 2010 16:46:14 GMT -5 solomente said:

Anyway, point is that when I flip the channel to an SD station (480i), the UMC-1 says the input resolution isn't supported so it sets it to 480p.

I really, really hope this isn't true. But, I did find this quote in the manual, "The HDMI section of the UMC‐1 supports 480p 60Hz, 576p 50Hz, 720p 50Hz, 720p 60Hz, 1080i 50Hz, 1080i 60Hz, 1080p 50Hz, and 1080p 60Hz resolutions."

Lonnie, if you see this, please say you meant for pass-through mode to support 480i HDMI pass-through! Please don't say the video processor doesn't support it (I know some don't even support 480i output over HDMI).

The combination of global video settings and the lack of 480i pass-through could be a complete deal-breaker for me. My display does proper 24p inverse telecine on movie-sourced 480i content. I know SD is so "last century", but I'd rather not have to spend a lot extra to get a Blu-Ray player that can output 24p for DVDs. I've heard it doesn't work all that well, too. I know my display's processing does a very good job of it.

- LoopinFool

[ripcordaff]

Feb 15, 2010 17:08:12 GMT -5 loopinfool said:

Feb 14, 2010 16:46:14 GMT -5 solomente said:

Anyway, point is that when I flip the channel to an SD station (480i), the UMC-1 says the input resolution isn't supported so it sets it to 480p.

I really, really hope this isn't true. But, I did find this quote in the manual, "The HDMI section of the UMC‐1 supports 480p 60Hz, 576p 50Hz, 720p 50Hz, 720p 60Hz, 1080i 50Hz, 1080i 60Hz, 1080p 50Hz, and 1080p 60Hz resolutions."

Lonnie, if you see this, please say you meant for pass-through mode to support 480i HDMI pass-through! Please don't say the video processor doesn't support it (I know some don't even support 480i output over HDMI).

The combination of global video settings and the lack of 480i pass-through could be a complete deal-breaker for me. My display does proper 24p inverse telecine on movie-sourced 480i content. I know SD is so "last century", but I'd rather not have to spend a lot extra to get a Blu-Ray player that can output 24p for DVDs. I've heard it doesn't work all that well, too. I know my display's processing does a very good job of it.

- LoopinFool

I can verify my UMC does this EXACT same thing. I couldn't quite figure out what is happening, but this is it. Despite the fact that it is set to pass through, the UMC says not supported and flips 480i programming to 480p.

[loopinfool]

Feb 15, 2010 17:25:15 GMT -5 ripcordaff said:

I can verify my UMC does this EXACT same thing. I couldn't quite figure out what is happening, but this is it. Despite the fact that it is set to pass through, the UMC says not supported and flips 480i programming to 480p.

I just realized that many potential UMC-1 customers own dedicated video scalers. They will really want 480i pass-through to work. I guess some of them would be XMC-1 customers, but not all.

I would like the option to use the UMC-1 as a simple HDMI switcher (for video) in pass-through mode. I hope it's a really simple firmware change to enable the 480i resolution in that mode.

- LoopinFool

[lonnie]

Feb 15, 2010 17:42:05 GMT -5 loopinfool said:

Feb 15, 2010 17:25:15 GMT -5 ripcordaff said:

I can verify my UMC does this EXACT same thing. I couldn't quite figure out what is happening, but this is it. Despite the fact that it is set to pass through, the UMC says not supported and flips 480i programming to 480p.

I just realized that many potential UMC-1 customers own dedicated video scalers. They will really want 480i pass-through to work. I guess some of them would be XMC-1 customers, but not all.

I would like the option to use the UMC-1 as a simple HDMI switcher (for video) in pass-through mode. I hope it's a really simple firmware change to enable the 480i resolution in that mode.

- LoopinFool

480i is not supported and will always be deinterlaced to 480p. This is by design.

[snodog]

I am extremely happy with the video processing of my crappy cable. It makes the HD look better and the other channels smoother.

[owtuv]

Feb 15, 2010 17:51:36 GMT -5 lonnie said:

Feb 15, 2010 17:42:05 GMT -5 loopinfool said:

I just realized that many potential UMC-1 customers own dedicated video scalers. They will really want 480i pass-through to work. I guess some of them would be XMC-1 customers, but not all.

I would like the option to use the UMC-1 as a simple HDMI switcher (for video) in pass-through mode. I hope it's a really simple firmware change to enable the 480i resolution in that mode.

- LoopinFool

480i is not supported and will always be deinterlaced to 480p. This is by design.

Not supporting 480i and 576i (interlaced SD video) in pass-through mode is a bad design decision IMO.

Could you please confirm whether or not the XMC with its hardware supported pass-through mode will support 480i and 576i signals?

Best regards,
Ole Willy Tuv

[loopinfool]

Feb 15, 2010 17:51:36 GMT -5 lonnie said:

480i is not supported and will always be deinterlaced to 480p. This is by design.

Thank you for the reply. I don't have to like it, though. As I said, I bet a lot of others (especially those with video scalers) won't like it either. Some of us like to decide which component does the deinterlacing. I also understand you're beholden to the chip companies, and our old video standard (480i) is often treated like a stepchild when it comes to HDMI. I don't get it.

OK, here's another question: When fed a 480i signal in pass-through mode, will the UMC-1 detect film cadences (like 3:2) and "do the right thing"? My display will normally detect 24p sources on 480p and 720p inputs.

Also, that "not supported" error message will get old fast, and has a very low WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor).

- LoopinFool

[bootman]

I take from Lonnie's post that 480i over HDMI isn't supported period.

This would include pass through.

If your display handles this correctly, then just run it to the display directly.
Run coax or optical for audio and be done with it.
Videophiles are a very small minority.

[jerrym303]

This could be deal-breaker for me. We are switching between SD and HD all the time. I run the DVRs native and let the pj do the upscaling where necessary. I want a tru pass-through, not a partial pass-through.

[ripcordaff]

Wait. I HAVE to be missing something because if the designed behavior, my UMC will not be staying.

Lonnie,

Are you saying that pass throug (as a global control) will automatically revert SD TV to 480p (which looks horrendous)? I need one of my inputs, for the mac mini as an HTPC to be on PASS THRU, but that means when I try to watch my cable box DVR and come across any Standard definition channel that it blinks for 5 seconds, says "resolution not supported" and flips back to 480p. Is this standard operating procedure for this device?

In other words, if we need pass through on one input, we lose the benefit of any video processing on all others (not only that, it "chooses" the first on the list--480p)??

[pynchon]

I don't see how this is an issue at all. If you are a 'videophile' then why would you ever do any critical viewing with a 480i input even with a video processor? Seriously. So 480i is turned to 480p - good. I think the umc-1 is designed to upscale cable to 1080p60hz - good - that's one reason I plan on buying it. You can pass thru 1080p24 - good enough.
Using a dvdo or something - put it on pass through - I can't imagine there's anything really wrong with that.
480i on a large screen is garbage - there is no way around that regardless of your video scaler - no matter what you are using you are upscaling a crappy image into a smoother, smearer (color) image then processing sharpness - it is Mccolor.
You people are nitpicky

[ripcordaff]

Feb 15, 2010 19:58:16 GMT -5 bootman said:

I take from Lonnie's post that 480i over HDMI isn't supported period.

This would include pass through.

If your display handles this correctly, then just run it to the display directly.
Run coax or optical for audio and be done with it.
Videophiles are a very small minority.

VIDEOPHILES?! Are you insinuating that this design decision will only impact videophiles? I will wait to talk to Lonnie about it, but this, alone and solely, will be responsible for my UMC return if it reverts to 480p for SD TV. I cannot be the only one who wishes to avoid UMC video processing on at least one input for one reason or another. My reason happens to be that that my Mac Mini outputs a display to my LCD TV that looks terrible when additional video processing is applied on top of it. Therefore, I was glad to see a pass-through mode. But if you select the mode that emo provides, god forbid you ever see a 480i SD signal because then you are forced to open the menu and set to pass through when you are done. Otherwise, as previously noted, HD sources will be stuck in the 480p chosen by the device.

Now, I am NOT a videophile, and I may be the only one on this board that does so, but OCCASIONALLY I might be found torturing myself by watching a SD TV channel. As another poster noted, Set top boxes are extremely poor at upscaling so I leave it at source resolution. When I am done with this channel, I will have to rejigger the menu settings to allow me to watch a Blu-ray in 1080 as opposed to 480p.

As I said. I'll wait to talk to Lonnie about it, but if a fix is not coming, its going back and the single UMC return they have had will have a sibling.

[ripcordaff]

Feb 15, 2010 20:41:05 GMT -5 pynchon said:

I don't see how this is an issue at all. If you are a 'videophile' then why would you ever do any critical viewing with a 480i input even with a video processor? Seriously. So 480i is turned to 480p - good. I think the umc-1 is designed to upscale cable to 1080p60hz - good - that's one reason I plan on buying it. You can pass thru 1080p24 - good enough.
Using a dvdo or something - put it on pass through - I can't imagine there's anything really wrong with that.
480i on a large screen is garbage - there is no way around that regardless of your video scaler - no matter what you are using you are upscaling a crappy image into a smoother, smearer (color) image then processing sharpness - it is Mccolor.
You people are nitpicky

You don't understand. It chooses 480p for the SD source. FINE. But then it STAYS at 480p for any other input\source you turn to (until you go back into the menu and select pass through)--Think Blu-Ray disc. You get back to me and let me know if you think watching a Blu Ray at 480p is a pleasant experience.