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Post by steviet1000 on Feb 20, 2010 0:39:05 GMT -5
Hello there... This isn't so much a call of desperation but more a time to collect my thoughts and think about the weekend ahead and see if I'm in the boat alone.... I received my UMC-1 today, like many I have been glued to the web site, anticipating, hoping and reading. Today was the day. So I've spent the last 6 hours configuring... I can't tell whether I'm happy, sad, frustrated or simply stupid.... I prepped myself daily for the last six months learning from the masters but now I feel like I'm simply not sure... Here's where I'm at. Emo-Q; read the reviews, took onboard the gaps and navigated to a point where I'm happy with sound (for the first go around). Sounds okay, but can always tweak later. I'm plugging into a UPA-7 - which keeps wanting to switch off even with a trigger attached (and the menu item selected correctly). Worked out the menu, configured audio and visual outputs. Blu-ray - a snap.... loved it! I've not seen Dexter ever look better  1080p all the way. Cable - was a little tricker but am there. Definitely something funky with the switching between 1080 and 480. Yes I'm lead to believe I have the latest patch but it's intermittent. Sonos - no problem; optical in, no video. Sounds great. HTPC.... Here's where the problem lies. I have a HDCP compatible card, on my Yammy RX-v663 they all played nicely. I used to be able to switch between HTPC, cable and my blu-ray or cable easily. Now I see a lot and I mean a lot of blue screens waiting for video and even with a few restarts I still don't resolve completely. It's really hit or miss. So, first question - should this be expected?  Can I expect a higher level of latency on the UMC-1 compared to my RX-V663?? Once I get the problem switching to my blu-ray or cable box results in a blu-screen. Lastly, the Wii. I get flickers on the component video input for my Wii. I hear the sound and I start to see the picture but it's doesn't hang around too long and then I see the blue screen again. So, without telling everyone about my technical background blah blah blah and how love this stuff as a hobby I want to understand if I'm unique. Who else has hooked a Blu, Cable, HTPC, Sonos, Wii together with effortlessly ease, cos I'm stumped..... Here's the set-up I have: Panasonic Viera TH-46PZ850U (HDMI in) Emotiva UMC-1 Emotiva UPA-7 Custom built HTPC (HDCP card with digital coax sound card). Wii (Component and Stereo) Sonos (Optical) Panasonic DMP-60 (HDMI) Verizon Fios DVR (HDMI) Also own in other rooms - BPA-1, UPA-2 - I'm familar with Emotiva.. love the product line, firm etc... But is anyone else hitting these problems? |
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Post by steviet1000 on Feb 20, 2010 0:56:44 GMT -5
Also - sorry forgot to add. If you switch input on the OSD menu I seem to then lose the menu until I turn off..... I hope this is just me  |
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Post by jgeiger on Feb 20, 2010 0:58:36 GMT -5
Didn't have much of an issue with the Wii. I did give up on having the UMC process any video, and have set it to pass through, which works fine for me.
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Post by aircav on Feb 20, 2010 8:53:21 GMT -5
I don't think your observations are unique. I am in the same boat in many ways. My UMC-1 arrived on Thursday and I set it up last night. Like most on this board (and I believe the target audience for the UMC-1) changing things around in my setup is not a trivial exercise. Lots of components, wires, cable, spaces, etc so adding a piece of gear like the UMC-1 changes everything, it is after all designed to be the hub of an entertainment system.
I have three sources that utilize HDMI, a DirecTv HR22-100, an OPPO DV-981HD and an Apple TV. I have not bothered to hook up my older XBox 360 that utilizes component outputs figuring I could wait for that after I did my initial setup and test. The UMC is feeding a Parasound HCA 2205A five channel amp.By using the UMC I was able to get the Parasound back in the loop as the two of them replace my Denon AVR 3805. This all drives an older Sony KDF-60XS955 HD TV. The speakers are Def Tech, mains are BP 2000's, Center is a CLR 2500 and surrounds are BPX's.
My initial observations - audio is excellent, better definition and clarity than when it was run through my Denon AVR 3805. Since this is effected by changing two components i am not sure how much benefit the UMC added but given the high marks many others have given I will say it is very good to excellent on audio, 2 channel sounded damn good!
After that, not so much to like?
When switching between inputs (DVD player and SAT Dish) the delay on getting a picture is ~10 seconds. Seems long to me. Switching over to the Apple TV the wait is unpredictable (I believe in part this is also the Apple TV).
Initially getting the OPPO to handshake was very slow and both the picture and audio disappear and it seems luck plays a big part in getting it to work so changing video settings is out of the question as it doesn't seem to be reliable at all so once I got it work I have to leave it in Pass Through?
Video quality is good but frankly I can't discern a difference in auto, 720P and pass through (well actually I can, the auto seems a bit over sharpened) , so if I leave the system in pass thru I have a very expensive HDMI switch
EMO-Q - not so much to like. I let it scan the system automatically. The mic was on a tripod right behind the couch which is the main listening area. The results were unusual. First time through it didn't detect the center channel or the subs, second and subsequent times though it did but it kept changing readings, making new adjustments, etc. Mic stayed in the same location.
The remote works what more can I say? It is serviceable but I am not going to complain about it as it is what I expected it to be. If I keep the UMC-1 I will utilize my Harmony 1 as the remote.
My plan is to fiddle with it today, see if I can improve the setup and decide whether or not to keep it. After the results from last nights installation I am leaning towards returning the UMC-1 but I want to give it a fair shake. Given the state of Home Theater today components should fit in smoothly and integrate into existing systems pretty easily. I do not want something in my living room that becomes a constant tweaking effort. In my dedicated HT Room, yes, the engineer in me enjoys that but not in the living room where I often want to enjoy the system for mundane activities like listening to music, watching movies, sports, etc
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Post by bobbart on Feb 20, 2010 8:59:09 GMT -5
Your definitely not unique, several people are having the same problems. Make sure to call support and see what they are going to do about it.
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Post by mytmauro on Feb 20, 2010 10:05:52 GMT -5
Boy I struggle with this. I am still on the waiting list and I haven't been tapped on the shoulder to pony up the cash yet. So until then I change my mind every 5 mins on whether to buy this or a Pioneer Sc 27 or Marantz 8003.
Money isn't a huge issue per se because I want to buy good stuff and use it for 10 years. So even if some of the gear is twice as much that's fine. I want to use this for 2 channel and Home theater. I really want high quality video - so the issues on this side concern me (especially since I am considering a Projector purchase as phase II here and will invest probably 4k in that)
I think you guys are more adept at configuring this than I am - so my confidence isn't high if I run into issues that are not covered by the videos or posts.
Any thoughts on that?....Considering your experience so far would you purchase again considering the issues your having?
sorry for the long post.
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Post by rklpoon on Feb 20, 2010 10:11:08 GMT -5
Hello there... This isn't so much a call of desperation but more a time to collect my thoughts and think about the weekend ahead and see if I'm in the boat alone.... I received my UMC-1 today, like many I have been glued to the web site, anticipating, hoping and reading. Today was the day. So I've spent the last 6 hours configuring... I can't tell whether I'm happy, sad, frustrated or simply stupid.... I prepped myself daily for the last six months learning from the masters but now I feel like I'm simply not sure... Here's where I'm at. Emo-Q; read the reviews, took onboard the gaps and navigated to a point where I'm happy with sound (for the first go around). Sounds okay, but can always tweak later. I'm plugging into a UPA-7 - which keeps wanting to switch off even with a trigger attached (and the menu item selected correctly). Worked out the menu, configured audio and visual outputs. Blu-ray - a snap.... loved it! I've not seen Dexter ever look better 1080p all the way. Cable - was a little tricker but am there. Definitely something funky with the switching between 1080 and 480. Yes I'm lead to believe I have the latest patch but it's intermittent. Sonos - no problem; optical in, no video. Sounds great. HTPC.... Here's where the problem lies. I have a HDCP compatible card, on my Yammy RX-v663 they all played nicely. I used to be able to switch between HTPC, cable and my blu-ray or cable easily. Now I see a lot and I mean a lot of blue screens waiting for video and even with a few restarts I still don't resolve completely. It's really hit or miss. So, first question - should this be expected? Can I expect a higher level of latency on the UMC-1 compared to my RX-V663?? Once I get the problem switching to my blu-ray or cable box results in a blu-screen. Lastly, the Wii. I get flickers on the component video input for my Wii. I hear the sound and I start to see the picture but it's doesn't hang around too long and then I see the blue screen again. So, without telling everyone about my technical background blah blah blah and how love this stuff as a hobby I want to understand if I'm unique. Who else has hooked a Blu, Cable, HTPC, Sonos, Wii together with effortlessly ease, cos I'm stumped..... Here's the set-up I have: Panasonic Viera TH-46PZ850U (HDMI in) Emotiva UMC-1 Emotiva UPA-7 Custom built HTPC (HDCP card with digital coax sound card). Wii (Component and Stereo) Sonos (Optical) Panasonic DMP-60 (HDMI) Verizon Fios DVR (HDMI) Also own in other rooms - BPA-1, UPA-2 - I'm familar with Emotiva.. love the product line, firm etc... But is anyone else hitting these problems? This is the kind of HTPC handshake problem that I fear of. |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 20, 2010 10:14:22 GMT -5
Hello there... This isn't so much a call of desperation but more a time to collect my thoughts and think about the weekend ahead and see if I'm in the boat alone.... I received my UMC-1 today, like many I have been glued to the web site, anticipating, hoping and reading. Today was the day. So I've spent the last 6 hours configuring... I can't tell whether I'm happy, sad, frustrated or simply stupid.... I prepped myself daily for the last six months learning from the masters but now I feel like I'm simply not sure... Here's where I'm at. Emo-Q; read the reviews, took onboard the gaps and navigated to a point where I'm happy with sound (for the first go around). Sounds okay, but can always tweak later. I'm plugging into a UPA-7 - which keeps wanting to switch off even with a trigger attached (and the menu item selected correctly). Worked out the menu, configured audio and visual outputs. Blu-ray - a snap.... loved it! I've not seen Dexter ever look better 1080p all the way. Cable - was a little tricker but am there. Definitely something funky with the switching between 1080 and 480. Yes I'm lead to believe I have the latest patch but it's intermittent. Sonos - no problem; optical in, no video. Sounds great. HTPC.... Here's where the problem lies. I have a HDCP compatible card, on my Yammy RX-v663 they all played nicely. I used to be able to switch between HTPC, cable and my blu-ray or cable easily. Now I see a lot and I mean a lot of blue screens waiting for video and even with a few restarts I still don't resolve completely. It's really hit or miss. So, first question - should this be expected? Can I expect a higher level of latency on the UMC-1 compared to my RX-V663?? Once I get the problem switching to my blu-ray or cable box results in a blu-screen. Lastly, the Wii. I get flickers on the component video input for my Wii. I hear the sound and I start to see the picture but it's doesn't hang around too long and then I see the blue screen again. So, without telling everyone about my technical background blah blah blah and how love this stuff as a hobby I want to understand if I'm unique. Who else has hooked a Blu, Cable, HTPC, Sonos, Wii together with effortlessly ease, cos I'm stumped..... Here's the set-up I have: Panasonic Viera TH-46PZ850U (HDMI in) Emotiva UMC-1 Emotiva UPA-7 Custom built HTPC (HDCP card with digital coax sound card). Wii (Component and Stereo) Sonos (Optical) Panasonic DMP-60 (HDMI) Verizon Fios DVR (HDMI) Also own in other rooms - BPA-1, UPA-2 - I'm familar with Emotiva.. love the product line, firm etc... But is anyone else hitting these problems? This is the kind of HTPC handshake problem that I fear of. Get used to it. HDMI is not ready for prime time - oh and that means it's time to jump ahead to yet another iteration (1.4) of the "standard". |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 20, 2010 10:19:40 GMT -5
This is the kind of HTPC handshake problem that I fear of. Get used to it. HDMI is not ready for prime time - oh and that means it's time to jump ahead to yet another iteration (1.4) of the "standard". Yes, although I'd argue it's the way HDMI has been used so far that is not ready for prime time. Way too many partially-compliant systems out there in the world - and even some that simply sport the connector but are not complaint at all. |
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Post by aircav on Feb 20, 2010 10:57:13 GMT -5
More on my UMC-1 first (or is it second) impression.
Back to Emo-Q. Emo-Q is curious. I have now run it multiple times (if nothing else it emits tones to all the speakers which often program material does not do.
First a bit of personal information. I am 62 years old and one should be able to infer from that fact that my hearing has declined over the years. I also did a lengthy stint as a door gunner and crew chief in Vietnam and was exposed to very high levels of noise at very high frequencies for hours on end. Why am I mentioning this?
Well when running EmoQ it gives me many variable outcomes - often that certain speakers are not present even when I can easily hear the output of the test tones. If I can hear the output, trust me it is there and the Emo Mic does not pick it up. I normally calibrate my own levels with my trusty Radio Shack sound meter but in the beginning an automatic set of test tones is easy to use and emits the tones to test amplifier output, pre-pro output, etc
Video delays - yes they are still with me and not just when switching outputs, even when switching channels on my DirecTV DVR
HDMI - not a mature technology? True in the absolute purest sense of course, but in my case I had no trouble earlier in utilizing my HDMI outputs so there is something different here. Since adding the UMC-1 my system is performing more poorly than before and I did not want to add it to degrade my performance. I had hoped the UMC-1 would be the hub of an upgraded HT system when I added a 1080P projector, two additional speakers and a Blu-Ray player
I will continue to fiddle a bit but not sure how much more I am willing to invest in this activity? I was really looking forward to this as on paper it as all the capabilities I currently need at a wonderful price point
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 20, 2010 11:05:48 GMT -5
Get used to it. HDMI is not ready for prime time - oh and that means it's time to jump ahead to yet another iteration (1.4) of the "standard". Yes, although I'd argue it's the way HDMI has been used so far that is not ready for prime time. Way too many partially-compliant systems out there in the world - and even some that simply sport the connector but are not complaint at all. I probably should have said that's HDMI standards and implementation are not ready for primetime, but you get the gist. Everywhere you read about HDMI problems almost without fail for every piece of equipment out there. |
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Post by steviet1000 on Feb 20, 2010 12:07:11 GMT -5
Firstly. A big thank you to everyone's contributions. I woke up this morning re-energized to have another go at it. Also some of the posts gave me food for thought. The HDMI maturity conversation got me thinking... So I switched from the HDMI output on the HTPC video card and used the component cable option on it (as I used to with my 663). The result, a much more stable set-up and I've not seen ANY of the (speculating here) handshaking problem I saw last night. The Wii issue I was experiencing has also resolved (again not sure if it's all related).
Also a big thanks to dyohn on another thread, locking to 1080p, deep color also seems to have helped things.
Overrall in a better spot than last night, spent some time listening to music today and am very happy with the UMC-1 audio performance in stereo. Definitely have some more to do on the 5.1 set-up. Video wise, I see the potential but I'm a little worried by the time it takes to switch inputs and that blue screen...
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Post by snodog on Feb 20, 2010 12:27:59 GMT -5
Im sorry to hear that Aircav, that is disappointing Im sure. It seems there are issues with the EmoQ that should be examined closer. I ended up using its distance and then played with the EQ band until I got it sounding exactly to my liking. Were the distances calculated correctly? Mine seemed to be right on. Did you end up setting it with your SPL meter? I think some of the minor annoyances will be problems that will ultimately be fixed in time. No doubt it is an awesome sounding machine, but if you arent totally happy then return it, people understand that you want to be satisfied with your buys!
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Post by aircav on Feb 20, 2010 12:58:21 GMT -5
Im sorry to hear that Aircav, that is disappointing Im sure. It seems there are issues with the EmoQ that should be examined closer. I ended up using its distance and then played with the EQ band until I got it sounding exactly to my liking. Were the distances calculated correctly? Mine seemed to be right on. Did you end up setting it with your SPL meter? I think some of the minor annoyances will be problems that will ultimately be fixed in time. No doubt it is an awesome sounding machine, but if you aren't totally happy then return it, people understand that you want to be satisfied with your buys! Snodog, I am still fiddling with it so to answer your question I have not manually adjusted the levels yet. I really was using the Emo-Q as an easy way to check connections, etc. The distances were not accurate. I know I can do the adjustments manually but I am still not pleased with the lag in changing inputs and channels and if I just keep it on pass through it is a very expensive HDMI switch (I already have an HDMI switch so it is even more expensive given that). Juries still out but I will decide soon. Hate to send it back. Maybe Dan or Lonnie will chime in on the subject? |
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Post by snodog on Feb 20, 2010 14:42:41 GMT -5
Changing inputs does take a few seconds to register and I guess it can be somewhat annoying but really not much unless you are constantly changing inputs but why would you be? Once you decide what media you are using (and not intended to sound rude) but is it a big deal to wait a few seconds before the video shows? I guess it might be to some..
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Post by aircav on Feb 20, 2010 15:46:22 GMT -5
Changing inputs does take a few seconds to register and I guess it can be somewhat annoying but really not much unless you are constantly changing inputs but why would you be? Once you decide what media you are using (and not intended to sound rude) but is it a big deal to wait a few seconds before the video shows? I guess it might be to some.. Snodog, I certainly understand your comment and I do not feel it is rude at all. I agree with you. Unfortunately it also occurs when you change channels and that is a bit annoying. Changing channels and having to wait between 8 and 11 seconds and the same lag when you change inputs would seem to point to a design or component issue. It may well be working exactly as it is designed for - perhaps that is a design compromise that doesn't suit some customers? Just got back home from errands so I am going to wring it out some and see what happens. More later |
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Post by snodog on Feb 20, 2010 16:04:39 GMT -5
Wow I gotcha, yeah that is too much for sure. I couldnt do that either. Just out of curiosity what audio setting do you have on when watching tv?
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Post by ghstudio on Feb 20, 2010 16:32:40 GMT -5
aircav....you say " I am still fiddling with it so to answer your question I have not manually adjusted the levels yet. I really was using the Emo-Q as an easy way to check connections, etc. The distances were not accurate."
Audyssey, EMoQ, etc set the calibration so that "effective delay" is set correctly. This delay is translated to speaker distances...and may well not be equal to the measurement by ruler which is, at best, an approximation of "effective delay". If you are correctly the measured "distance" to actual distance, then you are probably setting your device incorrectly.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 20, 2010 17:28:58 GMT -5
Changing inputs does take a few seconds to register and I guess it can be somewhat annoying but really not much unless you are constantly changing inputs but why would you be? Once you decide what media you are using (and not intended to sound rude) but is it a big deal to wait a few seconds before the video shows? I guess it might be to some.. Snodog, I certainly understand your comment and I do not feel it is rude at all. I agree with you. Unfortunately it also occurs when you change channels and that is a bit annoying. Changing channels and having to wait between 8 and 11 seconds and the same lag when you change inputs would seem to point to a design or component issue. It may well be working exactly as it is designed for - perhaps that is a design compromise that doesn't suit some customers? Just got back home from errands so I am going to wring it out some and see what happens. More later Again, the behavior you describe is not normal. My unit does nothing like this. You need to call Tech support Monday. |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Feb 20, 2010 19:41:57 GMT -5
dyhon,
You should not have a multi-second delay when changing channels!
Something is going on. Please call us Monday and we'll get to the bottom of it for you.
As I mentioned earlier today, the best way to get answers and solutions to your questions/problems is to call us or contact us directly. We'll get to the bottom of your problem for you.
Thanks,
Big Dan
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1080p all the way.
Can I expect a higher level of latency on the UMC-1 compared to my RX-V663?? Once I get the problem switching to my blu-ray or cable box results in a blu-screen.
