Who are the ERT-8.3's peers?

IMO, I believe the 8.3's fall right into their price category. I don't think they perform 2 times their price point like the amps do.

So your position is while the amps and electronics are absolute best in value bargains, the speakers are not? I'd guess that their business model is somewhat the same for all their products in terms of markup. If they sold those through dealers, the MSRP would be double what the ID price is.

Do you think if you bought your speakers direct from Vienna Acoustics instead of Best Buy, you would have paid the same price?

I agree w/Ronnie that comparing is difficult. But, I can say I have heard the 8.3's recently and I routinely listen to my Paradigm Studio 100's. The 8.3's were amazing with 4 XPA-1's driving them (with ERC-1 source through XDA-1) when really driven hard. By "driven hard", I mean - my friend's cell phone dB meter and my own phone's meter were showing 130-140 dB.

The clarity at such a high dB level was out of this world. That is was not painful (yet, that high of a dB level should be) was interesting...my guess was that it was that the main source of high dB was the great mid bass response Ronnie refers to. They can simply "kick it" in the mid/low end w/o sounding blaring/annoying in the high end. And, it's that mid/low end from which I suspect the high dB readings were coming from (since high dB's in the high's would have set my ears ringing...).

All that said...I didn't get the chance to directly AB the 8.3's vs. my Studio 100's...would love to. I can say that at the modest volumes (75-85 dB) that I listen to, I truly love my Studio 100's. But, they cost a lot more than the 8.3's. Were I to build another system, the 8.3's would surely be on my "must consider" list. My big question would be how they sounded at modest volumes. I know for sure they can rock out with the best...so - for sure, worth a strong consideration.

Also, I echo Ronnie's comments re. 2 channel vs. HT listening. I find the 2-channel comparison most revealing. And there's the WAF factor...luckily, my wife doesn't care about finishes of things in my man cave! I can choose based on sound alone!

Mark

I own the Mirage series of speakers (OMD 28s and OMD 15s). I have 2 home theater rooms. I was just trying to decide what to kit out the 2nd room with.

I went with Zu Audio for the 2nd room.

If you haven't looked into them, I would strongly recommend it. They have a pretty damn good sale going on now.

The Zu Omens are selling for $999 ($1500 normal), and the the Essence are for $1999 (3600 normal). I was gonig to use my Omens for L/R, but enjoyed them so much bought the Essence. So I'll have Essence for L/R, and Omen for C/SB/SR.

I hate to say it, but the Zu are quite a bit better than my Mirages. The OMD 28s are great, but I had to buy XPA-1 to properly drive them. The Zu's sound just as good with an XPA-5 (although I'll probably go with a XPA5/2 combo eventually). The speakers are much higher effeciency than the Mirage.

I haven't seen a lot of Zu owners on these threads, and at regular price I would have struggled, but from all the speakers I've listened to, the Zus have no comparison at the current prices. The 1 speaker I haven't been able to demo are the Emotiva's unfortunately, I had a similar post in speakers a while back, what would you buy? Can't say enough good things about the Zu's. The Zu/Emotiva combo is what I've been looking for for the last 5 yrs or so.

+1

I recently looked at some speakers over the weekend: B&W's CM9 and Def Tech's BP7002 and BP7004. This was a impromptu listening session as I was in the area but did not have the discs that I've been listening to lately with me at the time. These 3 speakers were between $1,700 and $3,000 per pair retail. The listening material for all speakers was Pink Floyd's Echos (CD). Power for the listening session were from AVRs from Pioneer Elite, Yamaha, and Denon. I have this CD and am familiar with how it sounds with my Phase Tech PC-3 series speakers (10 years old) in "direct" mode on my UMC-1 through my XPA-2 amp.

At the low end (for me and my taste; your taste will differ) were the Def Techs. The BP7002s are $300 more than what I paid for my PC-3s when I got them and about $300 less than the current price of the latest iteration. The BP7004s are about the going price of the PC-3. About the only thing these speakers had going for them was an amplified sub-woofer. This gave the Def Techs the edge in the low-end but over all were not as clean and detailed as my Phase Techs. Add my PC-sub to my PC-3s (now in the price range of the B&W CM9) and they blew away what Def Tech had to offer at that price range. This is similar to what I found 10 years ago when I was originally looking for speakers: Def Tech puts out some amazing gear but at a cost. To get that amazing gear you're going to have to pay for it; there's better out there (in my opinion, only) for the price. My take - if you want a lot of bass for your music without having to buy a powered sub-woofer (because you get one in every speaker) for a decent price then Def Tech fits the bill.

As for the B&W CM9's; these are just a bit under the going rate for the Phase Tech PC-9.5s that I'm looking at getting within the next 6-9 months. Compared to the Phase Techs these are similar speakers; they both have 1" tweeters and dual 6 1/2" woofers. Mid range on the B&W CM9s is handled by a cool looking 6" Kevlar cone where the mid range on the Phase Techs are handled by a 1.5" cone and is exactly the same as their PC-3 series. The big difference is that the mid bass is handled by a separate 6 1/2" driver in the PC-9. Comparing the CM9 to my PC-3 the only difference is the size of the mid range cone (1.5 versus 6"). The CM9s, compared to my PC-3s, were a bit brighter and cleaner than my PC-3s (no comparison to the Def Techs) but lacked the punch of my PC-3s. For the impressiveness of the B&W CM9s visually as well as their cost I was expecting more of a punch and bass from them. This could be because of the power being fed to them by the AVRs compared to what I'm used to with my XPA-2. I also have to note that my PC-3s are 10 years old and I would hope that with 10 years Phase Tech has made improvements to their speakers and likely mimic the CM9s clarity in the high end. So, I hazard a guess that the PC-3.5s are similar to the CM9s for $600 - $800 less per pair. Again, though I didn't listen to any B&W speakers 10 years ago, this fits the model that I experienced; Phase Technologies PC series plays with the big boys for several hundred less than similar models.

Again, this is a subjective review of potential speakers that I'm looking at to add to my existing system. All parameters were called out and the differences between the test system and my system have been noted. I understand that my PC-3s have an unfair advantage being driven by the UMC-1 and XPA-2 combo.

On a side note: AVR amplification still sounds like my Sony ES from 10 years ago; only the package and the available features seem to have changed. Thank you to Emotiva for allowing my to escape AVR Hell for the same price I would have spent on the Sony ES I was going to go with before a satisfied customer turned me on to your products!

Those members here and at other internet direct forums who have worked or do work at retail stores usually stick out like a sore thumb. The ID dealers as well as discount online dealers are becoming a small but growing thorn in their side. The very low prices on quality products significantly undercut the B&M dealers for the same or comparable products.

Many of the retail employees know it is useless to try and combat Emotiva amps. There are just nothing like them available for the same low price or even very close (Outlaw is one of the alternatives but can't touch Emotiva due to their re-badging price disadvantage). Thus you will hear most of them admit that the Emo amps are a great deal. The CD player, Preamps and Pre-Pro's are more complicated and have more variables to consider. However, many who have owned both Emo components and brand name comparables agree that the Emo products are also an excellent value.

Speakers are a dime a dozen, a whole different ballgame and leave lots of room for fooling the customers into thinking for example, that the Emo ERT-8.3 is comparable to any other $750 speaker on the market. A knowledgeable enthusiast doing their homework will soon realize this premise is a huge stretch. Yes, speakers are subjective for each individual's evaluation but only to a moderate extent when comparing the typical $750 speaker to a $750 ID speaker. They might sound similar when properly setup for music in a non-critical comparison. When ones starts to test their limits is when you will hear some significant differences. For example, the now discontinued Emo $200 ERM-1 and the ERT-8.3 will sound very similar in the mid/highs at very loud volume. The lower end is a different story

Take a detailed look at the ERT-8.3 and you will see many facts that you will see in very few if any speakers that sell for $750. Sealed speaker enclosure. Separate sealed enclosure for dual 8" tri-fiber woofers. Dual 5.25 tri-fiber mid and 1" silk dome tweeter. All drivers are very high power handling. The 8.3 is rated at 500 watts RMS. Three way tweeter and midrange control as well as boundary compensation control. High quality furniture grade satin lacquer finish. I could go on but one spec really sticks out and should to you too. Weight! Yes, one of the first specs I look at in comparing similar dynamic speakers is weight. Notice this does not include special designs like panel speakers, etc. The Emotiva 8.3 weighs 75 Lbs! I just took a quick look online at Best Buy and found no tower speakers for under $2000 that weighed more than 58.5 Lbs (that includes the VA Mozart Grand at 57 lbs with one tweeter, two 6" mids, 200 watts max, and sells for about $1500, made in Austria, now you see why it is overpriced). Note besides the weight of the ERT-8.3, that its external enclosure volume is 5631 cu in versus 2876 cu in for the Mozart Grand.

Now certain folks might say that weight is not important. All things being equal it certainly is. It has a direct relation to the strength and quality of the speaker enclosure and its components. That does not mean for example that it will sound better at 90dB's between 100Hz and 15,000Hz or have better soundstage and imaging. But it is an overall indication that it is on another level than the speakers I just checked from B&W, Polk, Definitive Technology, Martin Logan and Vienna Acoustics. That level is in the area of power handling, dynamic range, driver/magnet size/quality, frequency and placement flexibility and low frequency output.

I suggest you further investigate, phone or try the 8.3's for yourself. You will not find an overly bright high end as you will with some of the aluminum/titanium/etc., tweeters and mids (that can sometimes be appealing at first but later very fatiguing). The highs and mids will be very neutral, defined and silky smooth as opposed to many large towers. The lows for music (you need a sub for HT) are exceptionally dynamic. Whether you like them or not, I'm sure you will agree that they are way underpriced for $750 each. That is the point of my post. I don't happen to like a particular speaker that is currently very popular and stocked by Best Buy and Fry's due to its tendency for beaming and lack of dispersion, but I admit that their speakers in the $1000-$3000 range are priced fairly. In fact most retail speaker seem to be relatively fairly priced IMO. Some of the European brands tend to be overpriced when shipped to and sold in the US (one big exception is the brand that rhymes with Hose). ;D

Do you own the 8.3's ?

Gotta ask: Are we stuck on towers? Ever think about getting a higher quality monitor/sub combo instead? Much better bang for the buck with many benefits and advantages.