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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2010 6:37:48 GMT -5
LOL ntrain... You've been darn good around here lately . . .
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Mar 17, 2010 20:47:11 GMT -5
Well for starters you could say the reasons why you disagree with his statements about the Burr-Browns instead of calling him "ridiculous". That would be more useful to the rest of us. "He" is not ridiculous. His statement is. Animo said it already.... there are MANY versions of Burr-Browns. How can one say they are the best? Yes TI makes some awesome dacs, but they also make some cheaper models as well. Wolfson makes some highly regarded dacs, but just like Burr-Brown they make more than one model. But to call the company out for making a compressed sounding unit? Eh, thats just chicanery. The point is you cannot just lump them together and make a statement like that. Its ridiculous because everyone has different systems that each can obtain different results depending on the model in question. Thank you Steve. Don't everyone else get me wrong either. I just threw some other names out there for reference. Not knocking the Burr Brown brand either, as i am sure they make some fine units. That's like saying that I have a preference for a Chevy, without saying which particular Chevy I have in mind. Well the only Chevy I would buy is the Vette. Now, does everyone see my point?
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Post by moodyman on Mar 17, 2010 20:49:49 GMT -5
LOL ntrain... You've been darn good around here lately but... This quoted post is just....ridiculous. I don't even know what else to say. Well for starters you could say the reasons why you disagree with his statements about the Burr-Browns instead of calling him "ridiculous". That would be more useful to the rest of us. How the hell can you even audition DAC'S?? You gonna solder them in and out??
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Post by bigred7078 on Mar 17, 2010 20:58:54 GMT -5
Well for starters you could say the reasons why you disagree with his statements about the Burr-Browns instead of calling him "ridiculous". That would be more useful to the rest of us. How the hell can you even audition DAC'S?? You gonna solder them in and out?? lol true. but... there are always DAC's implemented for stereo use. These are much easier to distinguish differences in IMO since there is less variables. Comparing DACs in a receiver/processor is kind of a toss up. There are a lot more factors that can come into play.
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Post by bigred7078 on Mar 17, 2010 21:00:28 GMT -5
That's like saying that I have a preference for a Chevy, without saying which particular Chevy I have in mind. Well the only Chevy I would buy is the Vette. Now, does everyone see my point? Thats an excellent way to explain it and exactly why I said it was a ridiculous statement.
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 18, 2010 1:45:20 GMT -5
DACs are one of my specialty. It's all about implementation and the analog stage circuitry integrated with other quality parts. None is really better than the other one. By the way, the ESS Sabre DACs, not that great if you ask me, plus they are flawed. But like I said, it's all about implementation. Just saying... Personally I like the way the ADI and AKM DACs sound, but that is just my opinion. ;D Not that the Burr Browns are bad in anyway becuase they aren't. I have played with the Sabre, but it really didn't have what I was looking for. Hey, the AKM Dacs me mucho gusta. ...I got few of these around for the rainy days...
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 18, 2010 2:32:29 GMT -5
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Post by Steve_vai_rules on Mar 18, 2010 3:51:52 GMT -5
www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DACcheck out the specs of the sabre dac's... they are at or higher then various burr brown dac's... it all depends on the model.. but i dont think there really is anything on the market right now that is up to the specs of the top sabre dac's.. Matt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 4:13:10 GMT -5
Thats an excellent way to explain it and exactly why I said it was a ridiculous statement. Just a suggestion for the future to keep things friendly. Just stating that a person's post is ridiculous (period, end of post), is by itself rather negative. Why not say that you disagree with their posted statement and then go on to explain why without using terms like ridiculous. ;D
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Post by littlesaint on Mar 18, 2010 7:04:10 GMT -5
Just a suggestion for the future to keep things friendly. Just stating that a person's post is ridiculous (period, end of post), is by itself rather negative. Why not say that you disagree with their posted statement and then go on to explain why without using terms like ridiculous. ;D You are the last person to be "lecturing" me on what to say to Ntrain. Lets not remind ourselves of the "ridiculous" thread about him you made before you decided to delete all of your posts... I clearly went on and stated my opinion on this. If I feel a statement is ridiculous I will say it is such. I even went on to say that Ntrain is not ridiculous, the statement was and I explained why when someone asked me to explain. I agree. I like having better moderation around here (better, not more), but let's not go overboard with the kumbaya measuring stick. If a person makes an outlandish or dare I say ridiculous statement, they should be called on it. Same situation in the mac-mini thread. That guy was just looking to flame on and on about Apple, and people were basically telling him to stop being an idiot. No one has a problem with him personally, but his posts were annoying, and people were expressing that.
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Post by jmilton on Mar 18, 2010 7:17:23 GMT -5
Just a suggestion for the future to keep things friendly. Just stating that a person's post is ridiculous (period, end of post), is by itself rather negative. Why not say that you disagree with their posted statement and then go on to explain why without using terms like ridiculous. ;D I did go on to explain... That did it. I am going to start a RIDICULOUS thread. Who's with me?
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jlafrenz
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Post by jlafrenz on Mar 18, 2010 7:48:19 GMT -5
www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DACcheck out the specs of the sabre dac's... they are at or higher then various burr brown dac's... it all depends on the model.. but i dont think there really is anything on the market right now that is up to the specs of the top sabre dac's.. Matt Specs do not necessarily equal sound quality or tell you how something sounds. Specs on paper only tell half the story. If it is not implemented properly, specs don't mean a whole lot.
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Post by littlesaint on Mar 18, 2010 7:55:27 GMT -5
www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DACcheck out the specs of the sabre dac's... they are at or higher then various burr brown dac's... it all depends on the model.. but i dont think there really is anything on the market right now that is up to the specs of the top sabre dac's.. Matt Specs do not necessarily equal sound quality or tell you how something sounds. Specs on paper only tell half the story. If it is not implemented properly, specs don't mean a whole lot. Good point. You can drop a Corvette engine into a lot of cars. That doesn't make them Corvettes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2010 8:15:06 GMT -5
You are the last person to be "lecturing" me on what to say to Ntrain. Lets not remind ourselves of the "ridiculous" thread about him you made before you decided to delete all of your posts... I clearly went on and stated my opinion on this. If I feel a statement is ridiculous I will say it is such. I even went on to say that Ntrain is not ridiculous, the statement was and I explained why when someone asked me to explain. I agree. I like having better moderation around here (better, not more), but let's not go overboard with the kumbaya measuring stick. If a person makes an outlandish or dare I say ridiculous statement, they should be called on it. Same situation in the mac-mini thread. That guy was just looking to flame on and on about Apple, and people were basically telling him to stop being an idiot. No one has a problem with him personally, but his posts were annoying, and people were expressing that. If I understand which thread you are talking about, did you notice it has been locked. Bigred is a respected member here but I just wanted to point out that even if you do think a person's thread is ridiculous it is not necessary to use that type of language. That tends to get a defensive return comment and then before you know it we are into another pissing contest. If you are told by another member that your post is ridiculous are you apt to take that as constructive criticism? Most of you know the increase in negative posting that has occured here in the last 3-6 months. We are simply trying to bring it back to a more friendly tone. Thanks. I will continue to comment on negative comments regardless of who makes them. That goes for name calling also.
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Post by jmilton on Mar 18, 2010 8:30:25 GMT -5
" That goes for name calling also."
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 18, 2010 9:57:23 GMT -5
If I understand which thread you are talking about, did you notice it has been locked. Bigred is a respected member here but I just wanted to point out that even if you do think a person's thread is ridiculous it is not necessary to use that type of language. That tends to get a defensive return comment and then before you know it we are into another pissing contest. If you are told by another member that your post is ridiculous are you apt to take that as constructive criticism? Most of you know the increase in negative posting that has occured here in the last 3-6 months. We are simply trying to bring it back to a more friendly tone. Thanks. I will continue to comment on negative comments regardless of who makes them. That goes for name calling also. You are more than capable of addressing me directly... Are we really going to argue that the use of the word "ridiculous" is some sort of bad language? C'mon.... Again, I find it funny that the person who started a thread to bash on Ntrains love of samsung plasmas is lecturing me on how I should respond to other peoples posts...I find it strange that you are placed in charge of policing this now after such a fresh incident... Someone already asked that I should clarify after my original post and I did right away. Again, If I see something that I find is "ridiculous" I will continue to call it out as such. I didnt call him any names. End of story. Well if you ask me, and of course no one did so everyone can bash me for jumping in uninvited ;D , my suggestion is after you have written whatever you have written and before you click the "post reply" button, we should all read our comments from the perspective of the other person. Or read it as though someone else wrote it and was posting it and we were the reader - if we would get offended by it if someone else wrote it to us, then we should probably not post it ourselves.
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 18, 2010 9:59:29 GMT -5
I did go on to explain... That did it. I am going to start a RIDICULOUS thread. Who's with me? What, are you crazy??? That's a ridiculous idea. I can't believe you even brought it up.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 18, 2010 10:02:18 GMT -5
Well for starters you could say the reasons why you disagree with his statements about the Burr-Browns instead of calling him "ridiculous". That would be more useful to the rest of us. "He" is not ridiculous. His statement is. Animo said it already.... there are MANY versions of Burr-Browns. How can one say they are the best? Yes TI makes some awesome dacs, but they also make some cheaper models as well. Wolfson makes some highly regarded dacs, but just like Burr-Brown they make more than one model. But to call the company out for making a compressed sounding unit? Eh, thats just chicanery. The point is you cannot just lump them together and make a statement like that. Its ridiculous because everyone has different systems that each can obtain different results depending on the model in question. Even the cheaper models like say the 1744's are very good DAC's, they all have that similiar sound characteristic with a wide open soundstage and good instrument detailing with very low noise floor characteristics. When it comes to stereo DACs I find with Burr Brown the big difference is in the noise floor of the audio signal. The overall sound presentation though between the higher end DACs and the lower line models is very similiar.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 18, 2010 10:09:06 GMT -5
www.esstech.com/index.php?p=products_DACcheck out the specs of the sabre dac's... they are at or higher then various burr brown dac's... it all depends on the model.. but i dont think there really is anything on the market right now that is up to the specs of the top sabre dac's.. Matt Its not the specs per say, but the presentation of the sound itself. The specs just dont show what is percieved in hearing. One thing that I can mention is that a good DAC and source unit itself period would and should have a lower noise floor(higher S/N ratio) than the amp used itself. In other words the amp in use itself(and if used a preamp as well)should be the limiting factor I find when it comes to S/N ratio. Any decent DAC/analog circuit in a good midgrade or better source or pre/pro should IMO have a higher S/N ratio than the amp being used. The amp itself of course should also have a very high S/N ratio to keep a nice dark/black background as well, but an amp not only amplifies music, it amplifies anything in the signal its fed as well. Not sure if Im getting my point across here in one sense but Im trying..........
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Mar 18, 2010 10:12:06 GMT -5
That's like saying that I have a preference for a Chevy, without saying which particular Chevy I have in mind. Well the only Chevy I would buy is the Vette. Now, does everyone see my point? Thats an excellent way to explain it and exactly why I said it was a ridiculous statement. I have always stated why I have a big preference for Burr Brown DACs. To me source units that use them have the best sounding most natural soundstage. Other DACs like Wolfsens in particular I feel tend to compress the soundstage inward. 2 different sounds altogether. To me, they just don't sound as natural and open. Im sure Wolfsen. AD. or whoever makes plenty of model DACs with very low noise floors, but they have a different sound I dont find as appealing or natural.
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