NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 16:28:33 GMT -5
Well here is my two cents: Ntrain makes many valid points. I feel much of what he has to say makes a valuable contribution to the knowledge base of this forum. The same for Chuckie and Porscheguy and of course many others. '
The difference, however, is that we all have to realize that unless we are quoting a statistic, what we have to say is AN OPINION. And what we have to say is NOT the last word on the subject, as if our word is the gospel and everyone who disagrees is wrong. That is why we have these forums, because of the opportunity to share opinions and have a constructive dialog going.
I find that certain people seem to think that they are THEE expert in a matter and anyone with a different OPINION is wrong and also is subject to ridicule. That is uncalled for. It is not right to insult other members by making derogatory remarks about their equipment, or by calling them names (such as the Three Stooges).
We can certainly have heated discussions about why we feel our opinion is correct and since some of us feel very strongly about these convictions, it does get heated. But that still is no excuse for lacking civility or casting insults. These are all opinions we are sharing and we should respect the opinions of others as we would ask that they respect ours. Monkumonku, you are absolutely right in your statement here just above. * But with only one exception: There are no Three Stooges, as Ntrain made a mistake. It should have been the Four Musketeers, when you add Porscheguy, Chuckienut, and Strindl WITH him! ;D
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 16:38:32 GMT -5
Well here is my two cents: Ntrain makes many valid points. I feel much of what he has to say makes a valuable contribution to the knowledge base of this forum. The same for Chuckie and Porscheguy and of course many others. ' The difference, however, is that we all have to realize that unless we are quoting a statistic, what we have to say is AN OPINION. And what we have to say is NOT the last word on the subject, as if our word is the gospel and everyone who disagrees is wrong. That is why we have these forums, because of the opportunity to share opinions and have a constructive dialog going. I find that certain people seem to think that they are THEE expert in a matter and anyone with a different OPINION is wrong and also is subject to ridicule. That is uncalled for. It is not right to insult other members by making derogatory remarks about their equipment, or by calling them names (such as the Three Stooges). We can certainly have heated discussions about why we feel our opinion is correct and since some of us feel very strongly about these convictions, it does get heated. But that still is no excuse for lacking civility or casting insults. These are all opinions we are sharing and we should respect the opinions of others as we would ask that they respect ours. WOW This one is getting heated Rickie you are 100% correct. Unless there is clear number or fact that physically shows the UPA is better then the XPA or the other way around, it's just opinions. I have my own opinions on everything. I don't like raw onions, doesn't mean i'll tell you shouldn't like them either. All in all i decided on the XPA-2 and will place it on my bottom shelf so the weight isn't a issue. I like the extra headroom with the XPA-2 and if i decide to purchase different speakers down the road that require more power i'll be well prepared. Thanks for your input guys Matt Kraemer ...And what do you know Matt! ;D * Remembered my very first suggestion to you (Reply #4, page 1)? ...That's right, the very same amp that you just decided on! You're a total wise axe Matt, with an eye looking towards the future! Congratulations Matt![/b] ;D ;D ;D Bobby
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2010 16:44:09 GMT -5
With every new post i keep swinging back and fourth between the two options hahah ;D
Just a quick question. When my carver amp is turned off it pops really loud. So i plugged it into the always on outlet on my power center which solved the problem because it remains on.
Do emo amps have this problem? I am assuming no because my UPA-1 connected to my center channel doesn't but just wanted to make sure.
And is it bad for my carver or a emo amp to stay on all the time?
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 16:46:23 GMT -5
...Sometimes in life it's not what you have that is thee best, but what's coming!... ;D
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 16:53:50 GMT -5
With every new post i keep swinging back and fourth between the two options hahah ;D Just a quick question. When my carver amp is turned off it pops really loud. So i plugged it into the always on outlet on my power center which solved the problem because it remains on. Do emo amps have this problem? I am assuming no because my UPA-1 connected to my center channel doesn't but just wanted to make sure. And is it bad for my carver or a emo amp to stay on all the time? 1. It's not a problem at all Matt, it is perfectly normal. ...If the Master Volume level from your preamp is already turn up quite at a certain level, and that the amp in your power amp or Subwoofer comes suddenly to life, every driver will emit a certain level of "pop", coming from it or them. * That's why it is preferable to turn your power amp ON first, than your preamp, and then your source. ...And vice versa for powering them OFF. 2. And it is fine to leave your power amp always ON. No problem there. It is your choice and it won't affect anything at all of importance.
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 14, 2010 17:14:04 GMT -5
Well here is my two cents: Ntrain makes many valid points. I feel much of what he has to say makes a valuable contribution to the knowledge base of this forum. The same for Chuckie and Porscheguy and of course many others. '
The difference, however, is that we all have to realize that unless we are quoting a statistic, what we have to say is AN OPINION. And what we have to say is NOT the last word on the subject, as if our word is the gospel and everyone who disagrees is wrong. That is why we have these forums, because of the opportunity to share opinions and have a constructive dialog going.
I find that certain people seem to think that they are THEE expert in a matter and anyone with a different OPINION is wrong and also is subject to ridicule. That is uncalled for. It is not right to insult other members by making derogatory remarks about their equipment, or by calling them names (such as the Three Stooges).
We can certainly have heated discussions about why we feel our opinion is correct and since some of us feel very strongly about these convictions, it does get heated. But that still is no excuse for lacking civility or casting insults. These are all opinions we are sharing and we should respect the opinions of others as we would ask that they respect ours. Monkumonku, you are absolutely right in your statement here just above. * But with only one exception: There are no Three Stooges, as Ntrain made a mistake. It should have been the Four Musketeers, when you add Porscheguy, Chuckienut, and Strindl WITH him! ;D Yeah, but I'm not French.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 17:17:39 GMT -5
Yeah, but I am! ;D
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Post by briank on Nov 14, 2010 17:29:44 GMT -5
Well said Monku
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Post by VisN on Nov 14, 2010 17:38:32 GMT -5
Congrats Mr. Kraemer. How was your night out?
BTW. I love raw onions.
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 17:39:43 GMT -5
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Nov 14, 2010 18:15:55 GMT -5
I have been watching this thread with interest.. Now that the original poster has made a decision I feel that it is appropriate for others to chime in who do not have either amp. I do not have any Emotiva Amps. That said, I feel that ntrains argument is more then valid. The XPA-2 has a fairly bloated THD+N from about 2khz up. Why? I am not sure. But the from the specs it appears that the UPA-1 should be a better performer especially on speakers with a high sensitivity. I think some people get too caught up in watts and headroom. The reality is most people rarely push their amp beyong 50 wpc even in the transients with a ~90db speaker.. What I think people want (without knowing) is the power supply from the bigger amp because poorly designed power supplies can sag under heavy load.. The XPA-2 uses a big transformer, but less secondary capacitors. The UPA-1 uses a smaller transformer but more secondary capacitors. Without seeing both under load it is difficult to say which is better. But I am certain both are plenty for the amplifier they drive. Based on specifications alone, I would choose two UPA-1. That fact that they are 15% cheaper too is just a bonus. People do get caught up too much in "watts" and headroom without question. And the reason why larger power amps can and most times do have more noise,distortion etc, is because they generate more electrical noise and distortion(form of noise). When you have a larger power supply, and more electrical devices populating and amps input/output boards, your going to generate more electrical noise. A simple test to see how low or high your amp's noise floor is, is to turn off all your other equipment, and turn on the amp by itself. Put your ear up to the speaker or speakers powered by the amp. What you hear or lack of is the amps noise floor. Lower powered amps tend to have lower noise floors. More channels per amp will also have the same potential affect as well. This same concept basically can now be applied to channel seperation/crosstalk. Its why I only use monoblocks for critical music systems. Monoblocks eliminate the signal bleed/contamination from one channel bleeding over into another channel by complete physical seperation. Nothing is shared(like chassis,PS,signal boards,internal vibration even etc.). Multichannel amps all have some crosstalk and reduced channel seperation vs. monoblock amps. When a stereo signal bleeds from the left channel to the right channel or vice versa, it ends up narrowing in the natural soundstage of your music. Its basically trying to make a seperate "stereo" signal/image with a broad left/right spacing into a "mono" signal/image that tries to center itself in the room. Now you need to compound all of the above with the rest of your system. Your system does not just consist of an amp. You have some type of processor or preamp, and a source or multiple source units as well. So when you combine your amps noisefloor with your preamps noisefloor and your source units noisefloor, those miniscule spec differences in equipment can actually start to add up and make an audible difference. Same with channel seperation/crosstalk. A source unit has the L/R signal in one chassis so there is small amounts of signal contamination going on, same with a typical preamp or processor. Add em up together and it becomes audible. Its again why I like monoblocks, takes one potential "added" component out of the equation to detract from the soundstage other than the overall noisefloor(which is why less power in one sense can be better). Its another reason why I dont like preamps/processors for my 2 channel systems. Both my 2 channel setups feature a variable output cd player direct into a pair of monoblocks(one actually uses balanced outputs and then feeds a balanced EQ and xover). Less equipment to alter and distort/change the signal. Now you have some people here who say that some of the spec differences are too minute to really tell a difference. And with some people's systems here combined with ears,setup etc, that may be the case. But others here like myself may be a bit more critical in their listening environment, how they set up their equipment,room etc. I'm one of those who tries to squeeze out every last bit of potential out of my own equipment and the room itself. And this is a big reason why for music Im all over the UPA-1's and the balanced XPA-1's when that extra power is needed. The UPA-1's have a very low noise floor while still having enough power to drive low sensitivity speakers to pretty darn loud levels. If you need that extra 3-4db then the XPA-1's are available as well. And since they are differential balanced amps, they also have a low noise floor and minimal THD as well. Its why I recommend these 2 first for serious audio setups. The UPA-1's especially because they are alot more powerful than ppl realize and they are absolutely dirt cheap. Huge bang for the buck. The XPA-2 in my book will always be that "third" choice. Kind of a tweener product now in one sense. A bit more powerful than the UPA-1's but just barely by a decibel roughly, and to get that one decibel your sacrificing absolute channel seperation and subtly adding to the noisefloor and increasing total distortion, especially in the upper frequencies. And it costs $110 more to boot. It kinda makes it a hard sell for me.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 18:27:04 GMT -5
I have a system in my attic which is straight Mono! ...Kid you not; only one loudspeaker, and a mono turntable with its own Gain and amp section (2.75 watts; tube). That's it! Sounds wonderful! ...I got an old rockin' chair up there too, which is fully balanced. ...With dual-differential transmission rubber padding under the wood blades. Gets me goin' just fine.
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Nov 14, 2010 18:29:12 GMT -5
I actually know a couple of guys who still swear by mono setups. One of them is only 30 years old. The other is 82 I believe lol.
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 18:38:12 GMT -5
I actually know a couple of guys who still swear by mono setups. One of them is only 30 years old. The other is 82 I believe lol. Mono, is the way to Go! Besides, did you ever heard a Tenor singer with two mouths?
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Nov 14, 2010 18:49:14 GMT -5
Well, maybe at the state fair lol, next to the bearded lady.
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 18:56:46 GMT -5
Well, maybe at the state fair lol, next to the bearded lady. ;D ...Good Pauly, you got my drift! ...Which by the way was in Mono drift! ;D Less Stereo/Double meaning problematic... I call it Stereo-free. ...Or Mono-fact.
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Post by roadrunner on Nov 14, 2010 19:31:38 GMT -5
I actually know a couple of guys who still swear by mono setups. One of them is only 30 years old. The other is 82 I believe lol. Mono, is the way to Go! Besides, did you ever heard a Tenor singer with two mouths? Only when the tenor is also a politician. ;D ;D
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 14, 2010 19:36:37 GMT -5
Mono, is the way to Go! Besides, did you ever heard a Tenor singer with two mouths? Only when the tenor is also a politician. ;D ;D No no Ronnie, I was specifically referring to a Single Mono Tenor male or Single Mono Tenor female singer, or Single Mono Tenor Sexophone musical instrument. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 2:11:20 GMT -5
How does the Outlaw 2200 compare to the UPA-1?
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NorthStar
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"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Nov 15, 2010 2:44:10 GMT -5
How does the Outlaw 2200 compare to the UPA-1? Beats me man! * Didn't we tell you already to get a pair of those UPA-1 monoblocks? ...Yes we did you little snake! ;D ______________________ Matt, I'm going to be very frank with you (like I always am): Don't look around, don't look any further, don't try to make life hard on you, and just get those Emotiva UPA-1 Monoblocks!Then I already know you're going to come back right here and say: "Gezz Bob, why didn't I listen to you in the first place?" Just get them gooddamnit, and if you're not happy, I'll buy them back from you, plus one dollar!
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