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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2011 17:47:29 GMT -5
Its some form of oscillation. I get it every once in a while and attribute it to my miniDSPs. I was getting distortion from my Asus Essence headphone card when I was using the highest volume range (selectable on the Asus control panel for sensitivity of headphones) and when I reduced it to the medium setting the distortion went away. This is new and I wonder if the card is failing as before it worked best with the setting 300-600 ohms.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jan 28, 2011 18:08:01 GMT -5
My CD player & hdtv are connected to the UMC-1 by optical cable and the blu ray player via hdmi. However, I hear this noice regardless of which source component is engaged.
jamrock
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 29, 2011 10:00:13 GMT -5
Edit: Are you using the latest 05 firmware that fixed the display of "modeller only" etc. It seems to suffer less from this issue IME too. My FW is 7.02.00.05 (installed by EMO on its last trip to hospital). Is there a "modeler only" problem, or are you just using the term to describe the FW version? I am aware that the "modeler only" feature was available only in more recent FW versions, but am not aware of any problem with it. Just making sure we are talking about the rigt firmware as the previous one had the items mis-labelled.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 29, 2011 10:03:20 GMT -5
Another thought for those having the distortion, did you run Emo-Q at least once (even if you will not use any of its settings)? I believe it sets some internal parameters (such as an internal DV offset). Maybe it does some other things too, worth a try anyway as long as you've made notes of your before settings.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 29, 2011 10:23:13 GMT -5
Another thought for those having the distortion, did you run Emo-Q at least once (even if you will not use any of its settings)? I believe it sets some internal parameters (such as an internal DV offset). Maybe it does some other things too, worth a try anyway as long as you've made notes of your before settings. I have run EMO-q at least once. The distortion is apparent only when one of the EMO-Q modes is on and with some of the bands in the "+" range.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 29, 2011 10:24:18 GMT -5
OK. I have a couple of bands a few db in + and am not noticing it.
It may well be speaker dependent too.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 29, 2011 11:36:33 GMT -5
I'm on my second UMC (the first was replaced rather than reload the firmware by Emotiva over the holidays; not because of a problem with it). Neither my first or my second UMC did this. Then again I'm not using Dolby Volume nor having to EQ my SQ into the stratosphere. I think my highest band is a +3. I was thinking the problems stated in the thread were poor source media/speakers related (as I've had this problem in the past using less than quality equipment) but Deep Thought listens to some of the same music I do and is having the issue.
The only time I had this issue while running the equipment in my signature (sans XPA-2) was not long after I had got my UMC-1. I was listening to Sid & Nancy's Under the Covers Vol. 1 and noticed a lot of distortion in the mid/vocal area. The first thing I did was turn off DV and that took care of most of it. The second thing I did was replaced my 10 year old "off the shelf" speaker wire (that had turned green inside it's jacket) with new speaker cables. That took care of the rest of it.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 30, 2011 0:07:51 GMT -5
OK. I have a couple of bands a few db in + and am not noticing it. It may well be speaker dependent too. Nem, I appreciate you checking your EQ settings. If you could humor us one step further, push three of those bands up higher--double or triple, even for just one speaker (left or right), and see if that produces distortion. Your findings will help others decide if our UMCs have problems or even whether we should look at the rest of our system components. Thanks, Marv PS........I don't set my EQ that high, nor do I want to. The extreme setting is only for testing.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 30, 2011 0:27:50 GMT -5
I'm on my second UMC (the first was replaced rather than reload the firmware by Emotiva over the holidays; not because of a problem with it). Neither my first or my second UMC did this. Then again I'm not using Dolby Volume nor having to EQ my SQ into the stratosphere. I think my highest band is a +3. I was thinking the problems stated in the thread were poor source media/speakers related (as I've had this problem in the past using less than quality equipment) but Deep Thought listens to some of the same music I do and is having the issue. The only time I had this issue while running the equipment in my signature (sans XPA-2) was not long after I had got my UMC-1. I was listening to Sid & Nancy's Under the Covers Vol. 1 and noticed a lot of distortion in the mid/vocal area. The first thing I did was turn off DV and that took care of most of it. The second thing I did was replaced my 10 year old "off the shelf" speaker wire (that had turned green inside it's jacket) with new speaker cables. That took care of the rest of it. Stiehl, I first noticed a little distortion on a couple of songs before I ever used DV. In trying to isolate the distortion source, I found that disabling the EQ reduced the distortion to the barest minimum on the noted problem tracks. The very slightest distortion was still there, but I could attribute it to the recording and it was not that noticeable. Conversely, boosting EQ made the problem tracks worse, and also made many other tracks distort as well. I have tried all available sources: - Original CD thru analog RCA cables to the UMC
- Squeezebox thru analog or optical connection
- OPPO 980H thru HDMI or optical connections
I have not replaced the speaker wire, but connecting the squeeze box directly to the XPA-5 with the UMC-1 removed from the system eliminates the distortion, so I really think the speaker wires are fine. I only have distortion when the UMC is in the system. Marv
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 30, 2011 6:15:54 GMT -5
OK. I have a couple of bands a few db in + and am not noticing it. It may well be speaker dependent too. Nem, I appreciate you checking your EQ settings. If you could humor us one step further, push three of those bands up higher--double or triple, even for just one speaker (left or right), and see if that produces distortion. Your findings will help others decide if our UMCs have problems or even whether we should look at the rest of our system components. Thanks, Marv PS........I don't set my EQ that high, nor do I want to. The extreme setting is only for testing. No problem, I'll check that out next time I have the system on.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 30, 2011 6:54:40 GMT -5
I'm on my second UMC (the first was replaced rather than reload the firmware by Emotiva over the holidays; not because of a problem with it). Neither my first or my second UMC did this. Then again I'm not using Dolby Volume nor having to EQ my SQ into the stratosphere. I think my highest band is a +3. I was thinking the problems stated in the thread were poor source media/speakers related (as I've had this problem in the past using less than quality equipment) but Deep Thought listens to some of the same music I do and is having the issue. The only time I had this issue while running the equipment in my signature (sans XPA-2) was not long after I had got my UMC-1. I was listening to Sid & Nancy's Under the Covers Vol. 1 and noticed a lot of distortion in the mid/vocal area. The first thing I did was turn off DV and that took care of most of it. The second thing I did was replaced my 10 year old "off the shelf" speaker wire (that had turned green inside it's jacket) with new speaker cables. That took care of the rest of it. Stiehl, I first noticed a little distortion on a couple of songs before I ever used DV. In trying to isolate the distortion source, I found that disabling the EQ reduced the distortion to the barest minimum on the noted problem tracks. The very slightest distortion was still there, but I could attribute it to the recording and it was not that noticeable. Conversely, boosting EQ made the problem tracks worse, and also made many other tracks distort as well. I have tried all available sources: - Original CD thru analog RCA cables to the UMC
- Squeezebox thru analog or optical connection
- OPPO 980H thru HDMI or optical connections
I have not replaced the speaker wire, but connecting the squeeze box directly to the XPA-5 with the UMC-1 removed from the system eliminates the distortion, so I really think the speaker wires are fine. I only have distortion when the UMC is in the system. Marv Thanks, Marv. I might have missed that in a post above. When I used EmoQ on my second UMC it set some of the bands in the +5 and +6 range. Other than it sounded like crap (tried if for a day) I didn't notice any distortion. But, I'm not listening at reference levels or above so it could have been there and I just didn't hear it.
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Post by carbonsummit on Jan 30, 2011 12:08:25 GMT -5
I've tried to toggle between using the EQ and not and I can't hear any difference. I go into input set up for the input I'm listening to and got from manual EQ 1 to none and hear no difference. I go to manual EQ 3 which is unused so should sound different and again no difference.
I've turned it to none and gone out of the set up of that input. I've changed inputs and come back to the input that is now set at none and can't hear the difference.
I know if I change the amp trigger it turns the amp off right then, but it doesn't seem to change the EQ on the fly.
What am I doing wrong?
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Post by Marvin on Jan 30, 2011 15:50:11 GMT -5
Carbon, by your description, I think you are turning EMO-Q on or off properly . It may be hard to hear a difference if your EQ settings are subtle, especially if the music is not using the EQ'd frequencies that much. Try boosting or cutting the EQ a few dB so you can hear an obvious difference, then see if you can hear the difference when you turn it off.
I know I can hear my EQ adjustments "on the fly", but I also can hear when I turn EQ on or off.
HTH, Marv
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jan 30, 2011 17:06:41 GMT -5
I had a quick fiddle with a few bands (1k to 6k) this evening and other than hearing the tone change as you would expect, no distortion that I could detect.
I also moved the DV offset up and down and with 05 FW, there was no distortion doing that either (it had been horrible in previous FW). The level of DV boost did change though, so it was working.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 31, 2011 0:10:45 GMT -5
I had a quick fiddle with a few bands (1k to 6k) this evening and other than hearing the tone change as you would expect, no distortion that I could detect. I also moved the DV offset up and down and with 05 FW, there was no distortion doing that either (it had been horrible in previous FW). The level of DV boost did change though, so it was working. Thanks for checking, Nemesis. I am glad to hear that not everyone's UMC has distortion, but disappointed that some of ours do Now I will have to do some more troubleshooting.............. I wonder if I can find some 50hz AC around here? Maybe 50 is better than 60. Incidentally, when I first turned on my UMC to use the tuner today, it fired up with a mild case of "oscillating?" distortion. Switching to another source and back to tuner corrected it immediately. Later in the day, when I turned the tuner on again, it booted up normally and the display looked normal, but no audio output at all. I verified that the amp was on. Toggling to another input and back did not correct that--had to toggle off and on. After that I enjoyed a couple hours listening to random music played via Squeezebox. EQ settings all very moderate--seven bands at +1, 4 at less than 1. Audio quality was very nice and noticed no hint of distortion today. Sometimes the problems seem to be intermittent, which makes it more frustrating. Very enjoyable when it works properly, though. This evening, watching over the air (antenna) TV, I had one center channel drop-out, and loss of audio twice on one station. Changing stations corrected that, too. All in all, not the very best day for my UMC, but not the worst either--the start up problems have not happened before with this unit, so that was bad news, but I heard no distortion today. Really enjoyed the sound when it worked properly, but have to wonder how it will perform tomorrow Whatever happened to plug-and-play? Marv
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Post by DeepThought on Jan 31, 2011 16:43:58 GMT -5
It's not the speaker cables.
I first heard this distortion while using my "old" speaker wires; quad-core Canare 4S11 from Blue Jeans Cables, bi-wired. With my $100 in Emobucks from the purchase of the UMC-1, I bought a a pair of Emotiva's X-Series speaker interconnects, 3 meter. Precisely the same distortion. No change what so ever.
I'll make note of the precise frequencies & levels tonight.
The worst offender that I've come across is from Norah Jones album, Come Away With Me. The first track, Don't Know Why. From 1:54 to 1:59. At 1:57 precisely she hits this note that crackles with distortion on my UMC-1 when EMO-Q is enabled.
Sounds fine when Emo-Q is flattened or disabled. Sounded fine on other receivers in the past, including those running MCACC or Audyssey. And nary a trace of distortion on my headphone setup; Sennheiser HD650's powered by a LittleDot MKII tube amp fed the same Apple Lossless file.
It's not the source, it's not the speaker wires, it's something that EMO-Q is doing. I would buy that it's pushing my speakers beyond their capabilities if it happened at ear-bleed volumes, but it does it even if the volume is all the way down to barely audible. Really, really seems like the UMC-1 is somehow pushing those frequencies into some sort of digital clipping.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jan 31, 2011 18:15:06 GMT -5
Don't leave out Dolby Volume from the list of suspects. It was DV that caused me to go manual and I'm glad, somewhat. But much improved over using Emo-Q.
jamrock
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on Jan 31, 2011 18:24:26 GMT -5
Deep Thought, I also have the same exact problem with Norah Jones when EmoQ is enabled. I haven't even used EmoQ though since day two, when I decided it was worthless lol. So it's not a problem, since no EQ sounds great, especially with analog in direct mode.
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Post by gd on Jan 31, 2011 19:22:30 GMT -5
I had some of the distortion issues only after I ran EMO-Q. Really didn't like the sound at all and tried to eq it manually out. I ended up re-flashing my unit (I have not done the beta .05 update yet) but it did get rid of the distortion. I may try running EMO-Q once the new firmware is posted out of curiosity.
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Post by DeepThought on Jan 31, 2011 21:18:35 GMT -5
Don't leave out Dolby Volume from the list of suspects. It was DV that caused me to go manual and I'm glad, somewhat. But much improved over using Emo-Q. jamrock I don't use Dolby Volume for music, so that's not it. However, Dolby Volume definitely has some affect. I don't doubt at all that one could push certain frequencies into "overblown" if one had a moderate EMOQ curve + Dolby Volume setup a certain way. Based on what others said here, I have been tinkering with the DV Offset. I don't really understand what the DV Offset is doing, other than what I can hear. But I did notice that as I back it down, from 0 to -3,-4,-5, etc it's clear that it's adding more volume and bass. With the volume on "20" (pretty quiet), DV on Modeler, by about -14 it's distorting quite heavily with any PCM mixed-to-Stereo source. It's the same kind of digital clipping/distortion that I hear with EMOQ, but across much more of the content. Sounds just like someone's cranked the mic gain wait too high. Now of course, that's a silly adjustment so I am *not* complaining that the UMC-1 distorts at -14 DV Offset (whatever that actually means). But just that it is a way to easily reproduce this same kind of distortion. At least on my UMC-1. Interesting that a reflash seemed to help. Perhaps the upcoming "final" firmware will make a difference. Time will tell.
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