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Post by Marvin on Jan 31, 2011 23:38:06 GMT -5
I had a quick fiddle with a few bands (1k to 6k) this evening and other than hearing the tone change as you would expect, no distortion that I could detect. I find boosting EQ in the high ranges to be more tolerant than the lower bands. Just for testing, if I boost the 63, 125, and 190 bands +6db, I will hear distortion on most songs at least occasionally. Boost those three bands to +10 and it sounds terrible on almost everything! Reducing these bands to more nominal levels makes most songs sound good, but the usual suspects give an occasional buzz at the same locations in the track--it is very repeatable.
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Post by Marvin on Jan 31, 2011 23:45:09 GMT -5
I had some of the distortion issues only after I ran EMO-Q. Really didn't like the sound at all and tried to eq it manually out. I ended up re-flashing my unit (I have not done the beta .05 update yet) but it did get rid of the distortion. I may try running EMO-Q once the new firmware is posted out of curiosity. I have the .05 FW with the distortion still there. If you reflashed your FW and did not recalibrate or enable any EQ, then you are likely getting cleaner sound because the EQ is off. You will have to test with EMO-Q on to know whether you have corrected the distortion problem.
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Post by Marvin on Feb 1, 2011 0:08:46 GMT -5
DT, your experience really is very much like mine. Don't leave out Dolby Volume from the list of suspects. It was DV that caused me to go manual and I'm glad, somewhat. But much improved over using Emo-Q. jamrock I don't use Dolby Volume for music, so that's not it. However, Dolby Volume definitely has some affect. I don't doubt at all that one could push certain frequencies into "overblown" if one had a moderate EMOQ curve + Dolby Volume setup a certain way. That is exactly what prompted me to send my UMC for repair. Based on what others said here, I have been tinkering with the DV Offset. I don't really understand what the DV Offset is doing, other than what I can hear. But I did notice that as I back it down, from 0 to -3,-4,-5, etc it's clear that it's adding more volume and bass. With the volume on "20" (pretty quiet), DV on Modeler, by about -14 it's distorting quite heavily with any PCM mixed-to-Stereo source. It's the same kind of digital clipping/distortion that I hear with EMOQ, but across much more of the content. Sounds just like someone's cranked the mic gain way too high. Now of course, that's a silly adjustment so I am *not* complaining that the UMC-1 distorts at -14 DV Offset (whatever that actually means). But just that it is a way to easily reproduce this same kind of distortion. At least on my UMC-1. As I understand it, Dolby Offset compensates for inefficient speakers when you adjust it to the negative side. So you are basically adding gain, but apparently also some EQ because the distortion increases as you lower (-) the offset more. Normally, the distortion is unaffected by volume level--only EQ level affects it. I find that most of the time with my present EQ settings (none higher than +1), I can engage Dolby Volume with no added distortion. I just have to keep the EQ settings low. Interesting that a reflash seemed to help. Perhaps the upcoming "final" firmware will make a difference. Time will tell. I would be willing to try a reflash of new FW if there was a hope of correcting the distortion. I would love to fully enjoy the features of the UMC and be able to recommend it to others without any reservations. Marv
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 1, 2011 4:27:26 GMT -5
I had some of the distortion issues only after I ran EMO-Q. Really didn't like the sound at all and tried to eq it manually out. I ended up re-flashing my unit (I have not done the beta .05 update yet) but it did get rid of the distortion. I may try running EMO-Q once the new firmware is posted out of curiosity. The 05 does seem to improve many things. However, I think we should maybe leave all this for now and revisit next week when, with luck, we can all be running the new code.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 5:31:20 GMT -5
I've never used EmoQ and have no distortion problems. I do use miniDSPs which can be used for "automated" room correction but so far have not felt the need to go beyond setting it up by hand.
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Post by gd on Feb 1, 2011 8:09:31 GMT -5
I think Nemesis is on to something when he stated that once Emo-Q has been run it changes something whether you have it on or not - ghosts in the machine?? After hearing the podcast I am looking fwd to this latest update.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 1, 2011 8:56:22 GMT -5
Correct (I think Lonnie even confirmed it on the DV side I think), Emo-Q sets an internal DV level that is supposed to match 75db at a volume control level of 50.5. But depending on your room/speakers/amps/ears this may not always work well for you and the DV offset is there to adjust. I suspect there may be other internal things (or as you say, ghosts in the machine) that may get set when you do a successfull Emo-Q run. My Emo-Q was a disaster when I tried it the other day - failed to start, failed to complete all speakers, came up with distance results (that were silly) half way through etc. etc. Luckily I managed to cancel out every time so I don't think it saved anything, but the code (in 05) does seem very flaky at times. I'm eager to play with the next FW.
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Post by jason1976 on Feb 1, 2011 10:35:32 GMT -5
I think Nemesis is on to something when he stated that once Emo-Q has been run it changes something whether you have it on or not - ghosts in the machine?? After hearing the podcast I am looking fwd to this latest update. I would second this theory. I never had a problem till I ran EMOq. I'll try to reset mine and see if I can duplicate it.
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Post by skymovessideways on Feb 1, 2011 11:38:37 GMT -5
I've also observed digital distortion, but only when using DV. Somehow DV got turned on last night when I was watching TV with my wife. The distortion was quite bad and even my wife asked why it sounded so crappy. I turned off DV and the distortion disappeared.
I never use EmoQ, and I don't even manually change the EQ. I just leave it flat. The only time I ever noticed this distortion was with DV, which I will probably leave off at all times now.
The UMC1 sounds awesome most of the time, but their DSP code still need some work.
Brad
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 1, 2011 12:12:46 GMT -5
I'd like to ask if everyone can post what FW they have in their mails, otherwise it is very hard to tell which issue may or may not relate to which FW. For those that have not set up a signature, just adding a sig that says "UMC-1, FW 7.02.00.05" or the like would help a lot. I am going to add that to mine now.
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Post by Tony G on Feb 2, 2011 8:05:39 GMT -5
Question: 1. where do I go in the umc1 to find out which firmware updates I have? I was so frustrated last night with these distortions I finally did a factory default reset and bang, they were gone. The whole time I thought my PS3 was the culprit. It is definitely in the way one boosts the digital options within the unit. When I first discovered those options it was great because it was like the sound became uncompressed and more powerful. Dino. Off topic but is there a setting for an assigned volume level when first turning on the unit? it seems like it just goes to the last volume it was on and most times it's louder than one would like. The earlier DMC-1 had that. Also, the DMC-1 had a setting to where you could govern the peak volume so to speak... Really good to have with wondering children if you know what I mean.
Thanks,
Tony 2.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 2, 2011 8:18:30 GMT -5
Slightly modified from Emonatics site (LCD edited to VFD)
"To check the current firmware level of your UMC-1, on your remote, push Mute, then Status, then Vol+ (Volume Up). The firmware level will display on the VFD on the front of the UMC-1."
Preset start-up level and max level are some of the the things a lot of us would love to see added.
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Post by Tony G on Feb 2, 2011 19:52:41 GMT -5
Slightly modified from Emonatics site (LCD edited to VFD) "To check the current firmware level of your UMC-1, on your remote, push Mute, then Status, then Vol+ (Volume Up). The firmware level will display on the VFD on the front of the UMC-1." Preset start-up level and max level are some of the the things a lot of us would love to see added. Ok, will do in a few... I just calibrated everything like I use to do and now it slams... The auto Emo-Q thing seems like it's a nice idea but sure as hell doesn't work properly!
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Post by Marvin on Feb 2, 2011 23:15:53 GMT -5
Ok, will do in a few... I just calibrated everything like I use to do and now it slams... The auto Emo-Q thing seems like it's a nice idea but sure as hell doesn't work properly! Tony, are you saying that after resetting to factory defaults, you can manually set your EQ and not get any distortion, even if you duplicate the Auto EMO-Q settings that did distort? Just curious before I try a factory reset, myself. Marv
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 3, 2011 5:46:41 GMT -5
Marvin, you will need to do a FR when the new FW comes out, so you might want to just wait for that.
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Post by Tony G on Feb 3, 2011 7:03:12 GMT -5
Ok, will do in a few... I just calibrated everything like I use to do and now it slams... The auto Emo-Q thing seems like it's a nice idea but sure as hell doesn't work properly! Tony, are you saying that after resetting to factory defaults, you can manually set your EQ and not get any distortion, even if you duplicate the Auto EMO-Q settings that did distort? Just curious before I try a factory reset, myself. Marv NO! The only EQ I touched was the overall Bass & Treble settings for each channel. I also messed with crossover points during a concert Blu Ray playback...
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Post by Marvin on Feb 3, 2011 13:01:57 GMT -5
NO! The only EQ I touched was the overall Bass & Treble settings for each channel. I also messed with crossover points during a concert Blu Ray playback... Thanks, Tony. It is helpful to know just what you did. Marvin, you will need to do a FR when the new FW comes out, so you might want to just wait for that. Thanks, Nemesis. I may just do that. It will take some effort to redo tuner stations and everything. Marv
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Post by marrypoppins on Mar 17, 2011 18:33:52 GMT -5
Ok, will do in a few... I just calibrated everything like I use to do and now it slams... The auto Emo-Q thing seems like it's a nice idea but sure as hell doesn't work properly! I have the same digital clipping(distortion) problem with EmoQ. I am using: Popcorn C-200 -> HDMI -> UMC-1 (firmware 7.04)-> QSC RMX 850. I do not use Dolby Volume. I have NO sound distortion in Direct mode, but I have some distortion in Stereo mode on some woman vocals regardless of volume. I think that EmoQ is done in digital domain and it has the following problem: when it boosts the signal which already has the maximum value (for example womans vocal on CD) then it goes higher than maximum available digital value, that lead to digital clipping(distortion). Mainly PCM and MultiPCM sources are affected, because in Dolby and DTS formats high digital values are used only for explosions and other loud effects. I see following temporary solutions which we can use to get rid of this distortion: 1. Do not use boosting in EmoQ: after auto EQ calibration you should find the maximum EQ boost level within all speakers and decrease each EQ band for each speaker on this value. Disadvantage: in Direct mode music will play louder as in Stereo mode, but there will be no distortion. 2. Decrease the input level of signal: In my case I've decreased the volume on Popcorn C-200 from 0 to -2. Disadvantages: your output device should have the volume control. Does anybody has some other ideas how to solve this problem? I've also tried to decrease the incoming signal by changing the 'HDMI Input Level' in UMC-1 but that did not help: that means equalization is done before input level attenuation I've tried to decrease the speaker level but that did not solve the problem as well.
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Post by Marvin on Mar 17, 2011 19:02:28 GMT -5
Ok, will do in a few... I just calibrated everything like I use to do and now it slams... The auto Emo-Q thing seems like it's a nice idea but sure as hell doesn't work properly! I have the same digital clipping(distortion) problem with EmoQ. I am using: Popcorn C-200 -> HDMI -> UMC-1 (firmware 7.04)-> QSC RMX 850. I do not use Dolby Volume. I have NO sound distortion in Direct mode, but I have some distortion in Stereo mode on some woman vocals regardless of volume. I think that EmoQ is done in digital domain and it has the following problem: when it boosts the signal which already has the maximum value (for example womans vocal on CD) then it goes higher than maximum available digital value, that lead to digital clipping(distortion). Mainly PCM and MultiPCM sources are affected, because in Dolby and DTS formats high digital values are used only for explosions and other loud effects. I see following temporary solutions which we can use to get rid of this distortion: 1. Do not use boosting in EmoQ: after auto EQ calibration you should find the maximum EQ boost level within all speakers and decrease each EQ band for each speaker on this value. Disadvantage: in Direct mode music will play louder as in Stereo mode, but there will be no distortion. 2. Decrease the input level of signal: In my case I've decreased the volume on Popcorn C-200 from 0 to -2. Disadvantages: your output device should have the volume control. Does anybody has some other ideas how to solve this problem? I've also tried to decrease the incoming signal by changing the 'HDMI Input Level' in UMC-1 but that did not help: that means equalization is done before input level attenuation I've tried to decrease the speaker level but that did not solve the problem as well. Appreciate your thoughts / comments, MP. Your observation about PCM vs. Dolby agrees with my experience. I have more distortion on 2ch PCM, but very seldom notice it on OTA TV broadcast--which are DD, or on DVD--again DD. Your first solution should work as a stop gap measure until EMO designs a correction I have tried decreasing input levels on the UMC but did not find that to be a cure. I don't recall for certain, but I have tried decreasing output level from my OPPO DVD player and I don't think that helped, either. I have not tried the new 04 FW, but some others have stated that it does not affect the distortion. Marvin
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Post by jason1976 on Mar 17, 2011 19:54:21 GMT -5
When I upgraded to 04, the problem went away.
I don't think this has been due to any miraculous new code. The trick in my case was after the reset not running EMOq at all. My understanding of the feature is that it sets an internal level that is dependent on the master volume at the time of calibration. If the master volume isn't set correctly, I think it overboosts a level behind the scenes.
I made the same EQ adjustments manually without running EMOq and haven't heard the problem since.
If you are up for an experiment sometime and can write down your other settings it might be worth a shot to do a master reset and not run Emoq.
Just my experience for what it's worth.
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