DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 21, 2011 12:44:34 GMT -5
So what is the oldest Emo amp that anyone has heard of still in use? Hmm, well Jade Design has been building amplifiers for at least 30 years, and the Emotiva brand name has been around for what, 10 years now? edit: maybe not 10 years yet but at least since 2005 or 6...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 12:53:52 GMT -5
I consider many things as well as specs. However, when someone makes a claim that this amp is warm and that amp is very bright and can't give a reason why other than general comments that well, its a number of things all together, I have a problem buying it. I can explain quite clearly why a speaker might sound very bright. So far I get very few explanations of why they hear differences in amps such as in these two amps. The wise person looks to others experience to learn without going thru it all themselves. That's why I ask for others to explain. I'm not going to go out and buy a Parasound amp for $4500 just to test it out. No, I'm not going into a dealers to "listen to it" either. I don't think they would appreciate me dragging in an XPA-1. I was hoping someone that had been able to actually A/B these two amps in a controlled setting and verify that one was warm and one was bright could explain the reason why. I haven't heard one person do this yet. I don't always trust my ears (I know that an RS meter is more precise than my ears in detecting sound level, for example). I have done an extensive A/B blind test between two speakers and posted it here. I have yet to see anyone do a similar test on any two same class amps and find any significant difference. I know there are many folks who do believe they hear night and day differences . My purpose is not to start again the subjective versus objective war. I thought I would simply ask again and see if I could get a more precise reason for the perceived difference.
I have to go eat breakfast now. Take it easy Theresa. ;D
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Post by weird23 on Jul 21, 2011 13:24:58 GMT -5
While I don't subscribe to the theory that all amps sound the same in my experience they sound more similar than different. Throughout my audio journey I've owned the Anthem MCA 50, Emo UPA-5, Emo UPA-1's and now the Parasound Halo A-23. Each has something that they do better than the other with the exception of the UPA-5. Through my listening I found that the Anthem had the best bass, I loved the really low noise floor of the UPA-1's and the midrange and treble of the Parasound is very pleasing to my ears. If I could just combine them into one I would be set. As I stated before I'm not really sure i want to pay the asking price of the Parasound A-51 but would be willing to pay it rather than have the merry go round of amps that ends up costing quite a bit. I also plan on upgrading my mains to the Paradigm Signature S6's so I would like a little more power. I've been checking out some of the Class D offerings for Wyred 4 Sound and like they efficiency and size/weight of the amps. I'm in no rush at this point but do appreciate everyone's views they have posted so far. Keep it coming!
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Post by eusebio on Jul 21, 2011 13:28:15 GMT -5
with the exception of the UPA-5. i take it that you aren't fond of the UPA-5
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Jul 21, 2011 13:38:20 GMT -5
I put more credence in what Mr. Henry Kloss said about everything that can be heard, can be measured...
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 21, 2011 13:46:19 GMT -5
I put more credence in what Mr. Henry Kloss said about everything that can be heard, can be measured... Well obviously Mr. Kloss wasn't married to a spouse whose icy stare could be heard 'round the room but yet the noise floor in that room was as black and silent as could be. ;D
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 21, 2011 14:06:30 GMT -5
Guessing game ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 14:07:31 GMT -5
I consider many things as well as specs. However, when someone makes a claim that this amp is warm and that amp is very bright and can't give a reason why other than general comments that well, its a number of things all together, I have a problem buying it. I can explain quite clearly why a speaker might sound very bright. So far I get very few explanations of why they hear differences in amps such as in these two amps. The wise person looks to others experience to learn without going thru it all themselves. That's why I ask for others to explain. I'm not going to go out and buy a Parasound amp for $4500 just to test it out. No, I'm not going into a dealers to "listen to it" either. I don't think they would appreciate me dragging in an XPA-1. I was hoping someone that had been able to actually A/B these two amps in a controlled setting and verify that one was warm and one was bright could explain the reason why. I haven't heard one person do this yet. I don't always trust my ears (I know that an RS meter is more precise than my ears in detecting sound level, for example). I have done an extensive A/B blind test between two speakers and posted it here. I have yet to see anyone do a similar test on any two same class amps and find any significant difference. I know there are many folks who do believe they hear night and day differences . My purpose is not to start again the subjective versus objective war. I thought I would simply ask again and see if I could get a more precise reason for the perceived difference. I have to go eat breakfast now. Take it easy Theresa. ;D I'm trying to. Sorry if I offended or disappointed. Should have kept my mouth shut.
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Post by Wideawake on Jul 21, 2011 14:10:20 GMT -5
Not sure if the XPA-5 is the most popular but I can tell you that over 1900 people has read my review on the XPA-5 in 1.5 years. While my Parasound HCA-1205A review has over 3200 people reading over the course of 9.5 years. Even though the gain is higher on the XPA-5, it has a blacker background than the Parasound I had in my system. And thanks for the compliment on my comparison of the two amps. I'm curious as to how these 1900 people found the review. Without the direct link that you provided I was unable to locate Emotiva in the list of manufacturers in the "Amplifiers and Preamps" category. In fact, even if I enter "Emotiva" in the search box it comes back with zero hits! Somebody should write a review of epinions stating that it sucks!
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Post by Wideawake on Jul 21, 2011 14:12:11 GMT -5
PCGuy, I love that chart. Where did you get that from? Do you have a URL I can visit?
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Post by Porscheguy on Jul 21, 2011 14:28:05 GMT -5
Don't forget the Parasound is a dealer product so when you buy a $4000.00 Halo the dealer is making $2000.00 just for handing it to you....
As I have said before, people spend waaaaaaaaaaay to much time comparing amps. Well designed, well built amps with good specs sound.... well good, no matter the brand.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 14:40:11 GMT -5
I have to go eat breakfast now. Take it easy Theresa. ;D I'm trying to. Sorry if I offended or disappointed. Should have kept my mouth shut. No problem, Theresa. It was obvious you weren't feeling well. Just wanted you to be sure and take good care of yourself.
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Post by thepcguy on Jul 21, 2011 15:00:58 GMT -5
PCGuy, I love that chart. Where did you get that from? Do you have a URL I can visit? I'm not sure, but you can try www.nousaine.com
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RPA-1 man
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Phutureprimitive "Kinetic" 2011
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Post by RPA-1 man on Jul 21, 2011 16:34:07 GMT -5
pcguy,
I read that article years ago and was thinking about it while reading the posts in this thread. All of a sudden it appeared. I believe that chart says it all.
Porscheguy,
I think you hit the nail on the head. We spending too much time comparing amps. When you find an amp or amps that you enjoy just kick back and enjoy them. Life is too short.
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Post by paintedklown on Jul 21, 2011 17:32:35 GMT -5
I just read through this thread and I agree that all amplifiers with similar specs should sound the same when running within their linear range and while level matched. Where I begin to see differences in amplifier performance is when I push them to their limits (and sometimes beyond). I have found that larger amps just sound "better" to me. They seem to have a lot more headroom and feel more dynamic than lower powered amplifiers. The sonic signature (so-to-speak) doesn't seem to change from amp to amp, but IMO headroom is something that just cannot be faked. I suppose I make my buying decisions based on cost and power. I look for the highest power amplifier at the lowest cost possible. ;D (That is how I found/discovered Emotiva)
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Post by Wideawake on Jul 21, 2011 17:41:05 GMT -5
I just read through this thread and I agree that all amplifiers with similar specs should sound the same when running within their linear range and while level matched. Where I begin to see differences in amplifier performance is when I push them to their limits (and sometimes beyond). I have found that larger amps just sound "better" to me. They seem to have a lot more headroom and feel more dynamic than lower powered amplifiers. The sonic signature (so-to-speak) doesn't seem to change from amp to amp, but IMO headroom is something that just cannot be faked. I suppose I make my buying decisions based on cost and power. I look for the highest power amplifier that I can afford. ;D A major factor in determining adequate headroom is the efficiency of your speakers. You could use a 100 w/ch amp with 106 dB efficient speakers and you would have all the headroom you would need with headroom to spare.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Jul 21, 2011 18:06:39 GMT -5
Long ago, I read an article in The Audio Critic regarding The Power Cube. This is a real world measurement of how a power amplifier performs under real loads, not just a 'Plain Ol Resistor' I just can't find the link to this article. It was used to demonstrate that many of the so-called 'High End Power Amplifiers' costing several thousand dollars did much worse than some so-called mid-fi and entry level amplifiers in driving complex loads. A power amplifier simply amplify the signal it receives to drive the loudspeaker. It does not process the signal. Therefore, as long as amplifiers are operating in their safe zones (no clipping and low noise floor), there should be no distinction between output 'sounds'. Period! IC power amplifiers have no distinctive sounds. Why? Because power amplifiers simply amplify the signal they received. Where there are objective differences are in noise floor & power output capabilities especially into complex loads. Well built home audio power amplifiers are capable of driving 2 ohm & 1 ohm loads (briefly) even, without clipping or going into protective or thermal shut down. Therefore, your speakers sensitivity and your room size are important factors for how much power you will need to drive your loudspeakers to your liking. The more power @ low distiortion the better. Again, ABX testings have shown that expert listeners are unable to distinguish one power amp from the other, regardless of make or price, to any statistical significant percentage.
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Post by slbenz on Jul 21, 2011 18:54:10 GMT -5
Not sure if the XPA-5 is the most popular but I can tell you that over 1900 people has read my review on the XPA-5 in 1.5 years. While my Parasound HCA-1205A review has over 3200 people reading over the course of 9.5 years. Even though the gain is higher on the XPA-5, it has a blacker background than the Parasound I had in my system. And thanks for the compliment on my comparison of the two amps. I'm curious as to how these 1900 people found the review. Without the direct link that you provided I was unable to locate Emotiva in the list of manufacturers in the "Amplifiers and Preamps" category. In fact, even if I enter "Emotiva" in the search box it comes back with zero hits! Somebody should write a review of epinions stating that it sucks! Initially when I requested to have the XPA-5 added to the Epinions database, it was easily found using their search box. Now I experienced the same as you did. Enter Emotiva and nothing comes up. This happens at Epinions quite a bit I have found. But as I stated before, I can see my review stats and about 1900 different people have read my review. Doing a Google search and you can find my review that way.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 21, 2011 22:21:05 GMT -5
I'm curious as to how these 1900 people found the review. Without the direct link that you provided I was unable to locate Emotiva in the list of manufacturers in the "Amplifiers and Preamps" category. In fact, even if I enter "Emotiva" in the search box it comes back with zero hits! Somebody should write a review of epinions stating that it sucks! Initially when I requested to have the XPA-5 added to the Epinions database, it was easily found using their search box. Now I experienced the same as you did. Enter Emotiva and nothing comes up. This happens at Epinions quite a bit I have found. But as I stated before, I can see my review stats and about 1900 different people have read my review. Doing a Google search and you can find my review that way. Epinions search function stinks. I tried finding your tube buffer review with it and got nothing. I had to use the link from the Pacific Valve site or use Google instead. Maybe it is different now but back when I was thinking of getting one, it was frustrating using their search box.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Jul 22, 2011 8:09:06 GMT -5
Here's another thing to consider:
Suppose someone listens to two amps and determines one is bright, one is warm.
Next let's suppose FR samples are taken with a mic and there are indeed differences, now we take the one that was "inferior" and apply (e.g. using REW and a good EQ system) a difference EQ and listen again, does the "inferior" one now sound the same as the other one?
I throw this out there as if this works and e.g. there is a $$$$ price difference, you could buy the cheaper model + the EQ probably for less and also then have the ability to tweak the sound even more to match your room for example if you had demoed at a dealer.
You could even go so far as to find the best amp (within a similar group of amps) by listening at the dealer (using the same speakers you use at home), capture the FR and then use the EQ to aproximate it in your own room.
The question then becomes how does that technique work in real world use?
I'm just throwing this out there as something else to consider.
(Edit for typos)
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