|
Post by avaddikt on Feb 21, 2013 10:04:18 GMT -5
I understand the wish to have a pro come and calibrate ones system. I for one am very skeptical of the auto systems and have posted this opinion many times here. I find it amazing that so many folks consider having Audyssey or other auto calibration a priority feature of an AVR or pre-pro. Doing a manual calibration is not that difficult and the cost of a pro doing it for me is out of the question for my budget. I have an entry level Panny plasma and did my own settings with IMO super results and I am very picky. The audio section might be more tricky but still my results have been very satisfactory. Yeah, it takes some study and reading but is not something one has to be an audio engineer to handle. I see many folks spend hours and hours here over which DAC sounds better, but would never consider doing their speaker setup the old fashioned way. I'm sure sacdukeman got excellent service from Jeff but for me I'll stick with the DIY method. ;D The true irony is that most of us who do elect for a professional calibration are tweakers by nature, and have tried DIY means of improving a/v performance, but discovered an experienced pro (not a store-bought service) brings more to the table. We are picky too!
|
|
|
Post by wizardofoz on Feb 21, 2013 10:24:49 GMT -5
I am wondering how many of you who have your systems "pro calibrated" get it done each time something in the room changes like a sofa is replaced or moved...and extra seat or a rug is changed...all these things will have some effect on the room too.
|
|
|
Post by avaddikt on Feb 21, 2013 10:48:49 GMT -5
Reflections from walls, floors & ceilings are considered when 'treating' a room and establishing a 'good sounding' listening area. As well as speaker placement within the room with respect to the the listener. Changing those elements may well have an effect on calibration.
|
|
|
Post by sacdukeman on Feb 21, 2013 11:29:18 GMT -5
I am wondering how many of you who have your systems "pro calibrated" get it done each time something in the room changes like a sofa is replaced or moved...and extra seat or a rug is changed...all these things will have some effect on the room too. Yes. Jeff and I discussed which further treatments would be consistent with and enhance the calibration, so another visit isn't necessary just because of that change. Also, some changes have a very modest impact on the sound and wouldn't warrant a re-calibration.
|
|
|
Post by mutki on Feb 21, 2013 14:24:34 GMT -5
"He ranks it as equalling or even surpassing the Classe 800" I want to make sure that I have this right - R U really saying that the UMC-200 properly calibrated is on par with the Classe 800? If so, it's another nail in the coffin for spending mega-bucks on a pre-pro. BTW, I have always been suspicious of "hi-end" brands, especially when it comes to pre-pros, like Krell, Bryston, McIntosh, etc. I don't think that buyers are spending more to get better sound - but they are paying more because those companies have insane amounts of markup and, to make things worse, the products are funneled through snobby dealers that demand their pound of flesh as well. Thank goodness for Emo - Dan is shaking up the business with bang for the buck!
|
|
|
Post by avaddikt on Feb 21, 2013 14:37:26 GMT -5
The differences between 'high end' and the 'highest end' are very small, indeed. The more you spend, the less improvement will be realized. Emotiva has found a way to get very close, and in some cases meet 'high end' expectations for fewer dollars.
Some will say, having equipment not Made or Assembled in China is a plus. When it comes to overall quality & performance, Emotiva & OppoDigital are star examples that trash that argument.
Add in solid design, smart marketing, non-flashy promotions, superior customer service, and growing owner support of their products, and you have a winning combination.
Perfection is a goal, that none obtain. It is the continuing effort to improve that counts in the long run.
|
|
|
Post by sacdukeman on Feb 21, 2013 15:56:07 GMT -5
"He ranks it as equalling or even surpassing the Classe 800" I want to make sure that I have this right - R U really saying that the UMC-200 properly calibrated is on par with the Classe 800? quote] He will soon blog about it so you can read for yourself the specifics but my understanding of his opinion is that the UMC-200 generally equals, and in terms of the manual peq surpasses, the Classe. Whether there are other specific aspects of the Classe that best the UMC we didn't discuss. Nor did we discuss whether the Classe suffers from any such bugs or the DTS-HD 7.1 to 5.1 matrixing error as does the current UMC-200. He did tell me that, other than the 7.1 to 5.1 issue, the decoding in the 200 looked flawless. We did not try DTS-HD 6.1 to 5.1 as very few discs are so authored (Star Wars being the only one that comes to mind).
|
|
|
Post by sacdukeman on Feb 21, 2013 16:00:26 GMT -5
The differences between 'high end' and the 'highest end' are very small, indeed. The more you spend, the less improvement will be realized. Emotiva has found a way to get very close, and in some cases meet 'high end' expectations for fewer dollars. Some will say, having equipment not Made or Assembled in China is a plus. When it comes to overall quality & performance, Emotiva & OppoDigital are star examples that trash that argument. Add in solid design, smart marketing, non-flashy promotions, superior customer service, and growing owner support of their products, and you have a winning combination. Perfection is a goal, that none obtain. It is the continuing effort to improve that counts in the long run. Totally agree - as long as your new stuff improves on your old, you will be pleased!
|
|
umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
|
Post by umr on Feb 21, 2013 16:47:27 GMT -5
Bill, I certainly can improve your system. I find Audyssey to never be very good. I always turn it off. The EQ in Denon is not as precise as that in the UMC-200. The value of that precision depends on the complexity of the errors. Hey Jeff hows everything going? Welcome to the lounge ;D I hope you contribute to the forum on a regular. Things are generally good although I am stuck in the snow in STL.
|
|
Bruce
Emo VIPs
Posts: 844
|
Post by Bruce on Feb 21, 2013 17:11:38 GMT -5
Hey Jeff glad to see you on the Lounge as I talk you up a lot.You are the BEST for Pioneer PLASMA as my set loooks great still after 2 years with your settings.I know you are not an Audyssey man but you are the BEST at your AUDIO calibrations.I will see you in the Summer or the Fall on your tour. Bruce
|
|
umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
|
Post by umr on Feb 21, 2013 17:33:41 GMT -5
Hey Jeff glad to see you on the Lounge as I talk you up a lot.You are the BEST for Pioneer PLASMA as my set loooks great still after 2 years with your settings.I know you are not an Audyssey man but you are the BEST at your AUDIO calibrations.I will see you in the Summer or the Fall on your tour. Bruce Thanks for the props Bruce. I will be back in your area in September and June.
|
|
|
Post by moodyman on Feb 21, 2013 19:31:28 GMT -5
I would asumme if one could learn how to use REW you would be able to come close to a pro calibrator's results. When I last use REW about 3 years ago it was somewhat complicated.
But from what I understand now things have been made much easier and the learning curve isn't as steep.
I'm happy with my Marantz unit but the UMC-200 has caught my eye..especially seeing that a pro used it to tune room. I may puchase one and run it through REW and see what I get.
|
|
umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
|
Post by umr on Feb 21, 2013 19:34:53 GMT -5
I would asumme if one could learn how to use REW you would be able to come close to a pro calibrator's results. When I last use REW about 3 years ago it was somewhat complicated. But from what I understand now things have been made much easier and the learning curve isn't as steep. I'm happy with my Marantz unit but the UMC-200 has caught my eye..especially seeing that a pro used it to tune room. I may puchase one and run it through REW and see what I get. The vast majority of DIY folks over estimate their tools and abilities. It can be a fun exercise, but do not expect to be close.
|
|
|
Post by sacdukeman on Feb 25, 2013 16:02:23 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by doc1963 on Feb 25, 2013 18:15:43 GMT -5
Great review and further proves the value packed into this processor. I noticed the "Dolby Digital > Direct" issue right away and reported it to Technical Support. Hopefully this will be among the items that are fixed in the upcoming firmware. Good read, thanks for posting it.....
|
|
|
Post by avaddikt on Feb 25, 2013 21:23:35 GMT -5
Nice review, and maybe offers a tip or two to the Emo engineers. Should not take too much more dialing in to make a great pre-pro value even better.
|
|
umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
|
Post by umr on Feb 26, 2013 10:34:50 GMT -5
Reflections from walls, floors & ceilings are considered when 'treating' a room and establishing a 'good sounding' listening area. As well as speaker placement within the room with respect to the the listener. Changing those elements may well have an effect on calibration. Speaker placement and changes in speakers will alter the settings in the processor. Room acoustics changes are more subtle in nature and generally do not impact the settings. An analogy I use to room acoustics changes are that they are like extraneous light on a projection screen. When I calibrate a projector I cannot correct for these problems, but if you fix them they will stop interfering with your image. Excessive reverberation is a similar problem. It is obscuring the sound and directional queues from the speakers, but in general it is not a high enough percentage to alter the preamp settings. For example, a common target for D50 is about 95% in the higher frequency range. A poor system will be around 85% moving to 95% will at most move the system 0.5db. You will also find this change distributed rather evenly in most systems. This is an extreme case and the impact on the frequency response and levels is near the minimum limit of adjustment on the system. The impact on sound quality from the proper level of reverberation in a room is very significant. In my own system my room was close to Dolby certification. This summer I built some custom panels to put my system on specification. Later I asked my wife who did not like the new panels if it sounded better. She said it certainly did, but she was not sure it was worth the change in decor. Tradeoffs in room acoustics and room decor is a common thing. The key thing is to know where you are relative to what is possible along with what you need to change to get you where you should be acoustically. Based on what I read on the internet most people are way too focused on reverberation around 80Hz and less focused at 16kHz. All frequencies are important and should not be ignored. I do charge much less to tuneup a system after the initial calibration than when I do it the first time. Once you have heard your system setup properly you will be more focused on this than you were before. Audio is dependent on three things. These include the equipment your purchase, room acoustics and the setup of the equipment. Each one contributes pretty equally to the overall sound quality. Poor application of any element will severely restrict what the other elements can achieve. In general people are way too concerned about the equipment and do not spend enough effort on room acoustics and setup.
|
|
Bruce
Emo VIPs
Posts: 844
|
Post by Bruce on Feb 26, 2013 11:34:20 GMT -5
UMR has been to my house on 2 visits and he does charge much less after a few visits.He also does a great job on Display units as he did with my Pioneer Plasma 3 years ago.I will have him back in Summer to recheck the settings on the Plasma and redo my Audio settings as I have new speakers,Oppo-103 and new Pre Pro for him to calibrate and also 2 new Subs.The reason I love how Jeff calibrates is he does not rush or take shortcuts and explains ALL the setings he makes and when he is finished ALL settings for AUDIO and VIDEO is printed in a booklet so you can have for reference if your settings are lost for any reason.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Laufman on Feb 26, 2013 11:46:53 GMT -5
Hi guys. Glad to see a professionals take on the UMC-200. It is very gratifying to hear his comments. We've been saying all along that you can easily compare its performance to units costing many, many times more than its price, and I think this has been proven once again. Also, I am a firm believer in manually calibrating your room whenever possible, and this is why we have given you so many handles to precisely dial in the UMC-200. In reference to the decoding bug he noted. We have already seen this and it has been fixed in the latest SW. Also, the dreaded low center channel calibration result on Emo-Q has also been corrected!! We'll be releasing this update soon. Cheers, big Dan
|
|
umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
|
Post by umr on Feb 26, 2013 12:05:49 GMT -5
Hi guys. Glad to see a professionals take on the UMC-200. It is very gratifying to hear his comments. We've been saying all along that you can easily compare its performance to units costing many, many times more than its price, and I think this has been proven once again. Also, I am a firm believer in manually calibrating your room whenever possible, and this is why we have given you so many handles to precisely dial in the UMC-200. In reference to the decoding bug he noted. We have already seen this and it has been fixed in the latest SW. Also, the dreaded low center channel calibration result on Emo-Q has also been corrected!! We'll be releasing this update soon. Cheers, big Dan Dan, Congratulations on making a product that is sure to be an industry disruptor. This is a truly wonderful unit for me to work on. With this product I can correct many problems that are beyond most other processors. It would seem to me if you could make a USB adapter to go with this product that supports IP control of the product you would likely sell a good quantity relative to the number of units that you would sell. People are really gravitating towards products like iRule quickly. I suspect that is one of the reasons Logitech is selling Harmony. I also suspect you would sell more units if you added this capability because people want an easy and capable interface to their iPad controlled home theaters.
|
|