umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 8:43:35 GMT -5
Im from the Saint Paul,MN, YEA your not missing much.... Well, depends on if you want horsemeat meatballs...LOL Yea Ikea.... It would be nice if Emo did a video of a calibration of the UMC series like Lonnie did on how to do f/w upgrades on the UMC-1. Of course we all know that one of the member here did an incredible job on a set of instructions on that one, but it was a start. Informational videos can be extremely useful to newbies & pros alike as it allows them to fully visualize the process. Just a suggestion. The link below shows the steps to follow to do an audio calibration. This assumes you have gear good enough to do it. Good preamps and microphones that go above 1kHz accurately are expensive. I have about $8,000 in audio test equipment to do this along with custom software and test material to measure phase, frequency response, impulse response for all channels including the LFE. homecinemaguru.com/?page_id=39
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 9:28:45 GMT -5
If you mean St. Paul/Minneapolis that is one of the few metro areas I do not venture. Yes, THAT Twin Cities...but its too bad you don't come up here, we're not too far from MO! But instead, maybe you can recommend someone here that performs the same service since you guys usually keep tabs on each other...(?). Thanks anyway! It is really a demand thing. I just get too few requests to go there. If that changed I might go once or twice a year. No one can do the same service as me. They will be different because I have custom engineered audio and video gear and I do not sell these. I am an engineer who creates his own tools to fill the gaps. I know of no other competitor with the same capability.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 27, 2013 11:40:00 GMT -5
Yes, THAT Twin Cities...but its too bad you don't come up here, we're not too far from MO! But instead, maybe you can recommend someone here that performs the same service since you guys usually keep tabs on each other...(?). Thanks anyway! It is really a demand thing. I just get too few requests to go there. If that changed I might go once or twice a year. No one can do the same service as me. They will be different because I have custom engineered audio and video gear and I do not sell these. I am an engineer who creates his own tools to fill the gaps. I know of no other competitor with the same capability. No disrespect but isn't that the same as an EMC engineer (UMRs specialty) saying that because of their custom gear and software often costing them well over a million dollars they are the only ones with the same capability? I have no doubt that you provide a great service but we all know that in whatever field we work that someone offers at least a similar service. Your service may be the best but I suspect some lesser service is still better than being able to attain none.
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 11:53:33 GMT -5
It is really a demand thing. I just get too few requests to go there. If that changed I might go once or twice a year. No one can do the same service as me. They will be different because I have custom engineered audio and video gear and I do not sell these. I am an engineer who creates his own tools to fill the gaps. I know of no other competitor with the same capability. No disrespect but isn't that the same as an EMC engineer (UMRs specialty) saying that because of their custom gear and software often costing them well over a million dollars they are the only ones with the same capability? I have no doubt that you provide a great service but we all know that in whatever field we work that someone offers at least a similar service. Your service may be the best but I suspect some lesser service is still better than being able to attain none. I understand the skepticism. In any field it is possible for people to have created/invented things that give them an advantage in certain areas. I believe that is the case with what I have created/assembled for these tasks. I base this on what I see from competitors in the field where I redo their work frequently. In other words I see and hear much of my competition including those who are well known because their clients were not happy. Sure there is a chance someone may be close. Because my tools are unique I doubt we would get the same results and that is verified by what I find in the field. Simplistically, there is going to be a difference between a technician who is following a procedure from someone who has sold them tools to someone who can evaluate the quailty of the tools and develop new ones and new procedures when necessary based on a practical and theoretical understanding of physics, mathematics, sound reproduction, image reproduction and metrology. I am not sure what an EMC engineer is, but the same thing applies to my old engineering discipline. We as a group invented things that others did not have. Frequently that gave us a competitive advantage in certain areas of practice. This is not to say others were not capable of the same thing, but it is dependent on them doing it. Sometimes they did and sometimes they did not. It all depended on the barriers to do such and the potential benefit and capabilities of those competitors. At times we tried to get out of the business of inventing and maintaining our own engineering tools, but we found that suppliers were never really willing to support many of the proprietary processes that we used to achieve our financial success.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 27, 2013 12:05:21 GMT -5
I am not sure what an EMC engineer is, but the same thing applies to my old engineering discipline. An EMC engineer is an EE that specializes in EMI/RFI. As far as I know UMR is the only school in the nation that offers an EMC program. I have no doubt that you are the best at what you do, your references on this forum are beyond delighted with your services.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 27, 2013 12:06:10 GMT -5
Measurements must be performed with NIST up to date calibrated equipment in order to have believable bragging rights as to accuracy. I suspect your custom equipment does not qualify.
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 12:08:57 GMT -5
I am not sure what an EMC engineer is, but the same thing applies to my old engineering discipline. An EMC engineer is an EE that specializes in EMI/RFI. As far as I know UMR is the only school in the nation that offers an EMC program. I have no doubt that you are the best at what you do, your references on this forum are beyond delighted with your services. I am not am EMC engineer. My specialty was non-linear dynamics and feedback control along with steady-state and dynamic optimization of large scale non-linear systems. I was also involved in project management, project design, management and various other manufacturing activities.
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 12:10:15 GMT -5
Measurements must be performed with NIST up to date calibrated equipment in order to have believable bragging rights as to accuracy. I suspect your custom equipment does not qualify. You are kidding right. My primary measurements are all NIST certified and the same as used my major studios. I did not spend $40,000 on instrumentation foolishly. My proprietary mods all go back to these and do not involve major mods to the sensor technology.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 27, 2013 12:17:42 GMT -5
Measurements must be performed with NIST up to date calibrated equipment in order to have believable bragging rights as to accuracy. I suspect your custom equipment does not qualify. You are kidding right. My primary measurements are all NIST certified and the same as used my major studios. My proprietary mods all go back to these and do not involve major mods to the sensor technology. I think he was joking. Getting NIST traceable A2LA or NAVLAP calibrations on a yearly cycle is likely unnecessary for what you do and would cost way more than it is worth.
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 12:28:32 GMT -5
You are kidding right. My primary measurements are all NIST certified and the same as used my major studios. My proprietary mods all go back to these and do not involve major mods to the sensor technology. I think he was joking. Getting NIST traceable A2LA or NAVLAP calibrations on a yearly cycle is likely unnecessary for what you do and would cost way more than it is worth. Very true and in fact NIST traceablity does not guarantee that the device is correct. One of my instruments which is very expensive and from the most respected company in the business had three major flaws in it when I received it. I contacted the company after it failed my in-house tests. They were ashamed to admit I was right and sent me updated firmware to fix it. I find almost all equipment has it's flaws. The key is to be aware of the deficiencies and know how to get around them. In my opinion you must have independent methods to verify a devices accuracy to at least detect serious mistakes. You cannot trust any instrument manufacturer to not make mistakes.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 27, 2013 13:47:27 GMT -5
I wasn't kidding. There are labs that certify and calibrate measurement devices. If you make your living from calibration of audio and video systems, to do so with unorthadox uncalibrated equipment is tantamount to fraud. ISF certification is all of a 3 day course. As Yoda would say,"Impressed I am not"!
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umr
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 13:57:44 GMT -5
I wasn't kidding. There are labs that certify and calibrate measurement devices. If you make your living from calibration of audio and video systems, to do so with unorthadox uncalibrated equipment is tantamount to fraud. ISF certification is all of a 3 day course. As Yoda would say,"Impressed I am not"! My primary instruments are NIST certified and the same as used by the major post production houses.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 27, 2013 14:00:27 GMT -5
I think he was joking. Getting NIST traceable A2LA or NAVLAP calibrations on a yearly cycle is likely unnecessary for what you do and would cost way more than it is worth. Very true and in fact NIST traceablity does not guarantee that the device is correct. One of my instruments which is very expensive and from the most respected company in the business had three major flaws in it when I received it. I contacted the company after it failed my in-house tests. They were ashamed to admit I was right and sent me updated firmware to fix it. I find almost all equipment has it's flaws. The key is to be aware of the deficiencies and know how to get around them. In my opinion you must have independent methods to verify a devices accuracy to at least detect serious mistakes. You cannot trust any instrument manufacturer to not make mistakes. It cost me a lot of money to find how how right you are about this. In my case the manufacturer did not follow their own calibration documentation properly and allowed my out of spec analyzer to be certified as in spec. It turns out that this is not uncommon.
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umr
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AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 14:08:19 GMT -5
Very true and in fact NIST traceablity does not guarantee that the device is correct. One of my instruments which is very expensive and from the most respected company in the business had three major flaws in it when I received it. I contacted the company after it failed my in-house tests. They were ashamed to admit I was right and sent me updated firmware to fix it. I find almost all equipment has it's flaws. The key is to be aware of the deficiencies and know how to get around them. In my opinion you must have independent methods to verify a devices accuracy to at least detect serious mistakes. You cannot trust any instrument manufacturer to not make mistakes. It cost me a lot of money to find how how right you are about this. In my case the manufacturer did not follow their own calibration documentation properly and allowed my out of spec analyzer to be certified as in spec. It turns out that this is not uncommon. Exactly, my work on feedback control in the past had to focus on final sensor accuracy and repeatability. In other words if you are going to control to a target with a measurement the measurement must be good enough. We had a very large R&D dept. with extensive capability in this regard. It was amazing how many manufacturers overstated their products capabilities. It was more the norm that they failed to meet their own specifications than not. We even found in some cases we were better off making our own sensors than purchasing them because our materials all came from the same lot that we had in stock reducing variability greatly. I doubted this at first, but after comparison with our highest quality reference instrument it was clear our own were better than any manufacturers for that type of sensor. Manufacturer procedures and methods can also be flawed. One of my devices has a self calibration feature for a particular measurement that is very flawed for its use. I have talked to the manufacturer about this, but they refuse to fix it. I instead have to compensate for the offset when I use it. Luckily I know the value to offset the reading by.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 27, 2013 14:15:58 GMT -5
"My primary instruments are NIST certified and the same as used by the major post production houses."
"I have custom engineered audio and video gear and I do not sell these. I am an engineer who creates his own tools to fill the gaps."
" Because my tools are unique I doubt we would get the same results and that is verified by what I find in the field."
Which statement above is true? I believe it is mutually exclusive for all to be true.
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umr
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 14:18:28 GMT -5
"My primary instruments are NIST certified and the same as used by the major post production houses." "I have custom engineered audio and video gear and I do not sell these. I am an engineer who creates his own tools to fill the gaps." " Because my tools are unique I doubt we would get the same results and that is verified by what I find in the field." Which statement above is true? I believe it is mutually exclusive for all to be true. They are all true. Gear and tools does not refer to primary instruments alone. It is a combination of test material, software and instrumentation. My primary instruments are not modified to invalidate NIST. My additions are to augment what these can do. For example, I have created test patterns that perturb the system asymmetrically according to how the data is found in actual material based on histogram analysis. The solution will therefore be weighted to a different region than one that targets other areas. I believe for example a specific combination of PRBS (psuedo random binary sequence or MLS) tests, sweeps and pink noise are beneficial to understanding the systems response. Someone else may differ, but they are highly unlikely to be doing the same things I am. The key thing to realize is that there are many decisions to be made in any audio or video calibration exercise. Knowing what they are and why you are making them is important. For just one example do you calibrate to a house curve or not. If so which one SMPTE 202M or 222M or your own like Audyssey. If 222M which variant. There are 4 variants of 222M for example. The decision tree here is rather large and there are many ways to have differences in results with just these choices excluding measurement tools. Are you going to adjust room acoustics. If so to what standard and by what metrics. I can get about 6 different RT60 values depending on the tools in my kit alone. Do you use any of these or only one or none? To me the challenging thing here about this is that NIST is not really the final arbitrator. It all comes down to what tools, equipment and procedures are the best analog for our human senses. Unlike a gram for example which is a specific thing the final thing is to make it correct for our senses.
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 27, 2013 14:56:48 GMT -5
Well, you have the vocabulary and the hubris, I hope it is not just technical malpropism. Good luck to you in your endeavours.
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Post by rtg97229 on Feb 27, 2013 15:07:38 GMT -5
Well, you have the vocabulary and the hubris, I hope it is not just technical malpropism. Good luck to you in your endeavours. It seems to me that he is proving a service that people enjoy and has the background to back up his credibility. Some of the best engineers in the field I work in come from the University of Missouri-Rolla.
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Post by avaddikt on Feb 27, 2013 15:21:11 GMT -5
Well, you have the vocabulary and the hubris, I hope it is not just technical malpropism. Good luck to you in your endeavours. It seems to me that he is proving a service that people enjoy and has the background to back up his credibility. Some of the best engineers in the field I work in come from the University of Missouri-Rolla. Considering the experience as well is paramount. There are those with the proper credentials and education that have little practical experience. If you don't take that into consideration you are missing a huge part of the total picture. It is not just knowing 'what to do & why' as much as it about knowing 'what to do & why' if things don't work as expected. This is what separates 'qualified' from 'expertly qualified' (eg; Jeff M.).
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umr
Minor Hero
AccuCal Home Theater Services
Posts: 25
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Post by umr on Feb 27, 2013 15:23:33 GMT -5
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