tubby
Emo VIPs
Route 2 in Weekapaug!!!
Posts: 408
|
Post by tubby on Sept 9, 2014 19:04:46 GMT -5
FYI I have caps on the unused inputs on my Topping T60 and it has plenty on bleed btw inputs. It might help with other noise but does not help this issue. Logically I would not expect it too either. The issue is not noise coming in though unused inputs it is noise coming from an input with something hooked up to it but not selected.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 9, 2014 22:09:10 GMT -5
For those that voted no, did you use an analog source? This is what is in discussion here, not digital. That is working fine. ...and for those too lazy to check, for shame!
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 9, 2014 22:11:02 GMT -5
Also has anyone opened a tech support ticket yet? We need official word this is being investigated at Emotiva labs.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on Sept 9, 2014 22:31:53 GMT -5
Also has anyone opened a tech support ticket yet? We need official word this is being investigated at Emotiva labs. I want to have measurements before I open a ticket. It all depends on what time my wife decides to go to bed tonight .
|
|
edrummereasye
Sensei
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Posts: 438
|
Post by edrummereasye on Sept 10, 2014 0:15:55 GMT -5
Without the resistor it's a true short but with it there will be issues when used on outputs. Generally there's no need to use them on outputs however because the whole point is to protect against RF interference on inputs. The Cardas units look great BTW. Hmmm...Cardas units are $15 - $59 for a set of 2. The AudioQuest are $39 for 10. The AudioQuest somehow look a whole lot better to me... (actually, price aside, I think they look just as nice...but of course, I'm the only one who ever sees the back side of my equipment rack anyway...) Wow...so many wrong ways that last phrase could be interpreted...just wow....
|
|
edrummereasye
Sensei
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Posts: 438
|
Post by edrummereasye on Sept 10, 2014 0:27:06 GMT -5
However, I'll test if I get a chance, since I still have UMC-1, UMC-200, USP-1, and XSP-1 (I've got too many rooms to ever get rid of anything, lol). I'd be really, really interested in the XSP-1, since that has a top notch analog section. Haven't been nearly thorough yet, but a quick spot-test between inputs 2 and 3 yielded zero bleed-through. Lol, my XBox is on Input 3 for Rocksmith...at first I tried testing by strumming the guitar...duh...that didn't work out so well. I'll try to do something more complete, but it may be a few days before I can...my woman's in the hospital, and the kids are deluging me with forms and appointments for the new school year, in addition to the normal backlog.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on Sept 10, 2014 1:37:00 GMT -5
I took some measurement, but the data looks a bit weird. It clearly shows the issue, but the low frequencies show a strange amount of noise. I've asked for suggestions on AVS to see if anyone has suggestions to help me clear up the weirdness. If the measurement gurus over there think things look right, I'll post as is over here. Otherwise, I'll redo the measurements with whatever suggestions they have to provide me.
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on Sept 10, 2014 7:28:38 GMT -5
I took some measurement, but the data looks a bit weird. It clearly shows the issue, but the low frequencies show a strange amount of noise. I've asked for suggestions on AVS to see if anyone has suggestions to help me clear up the weirdness. If the measurement gurus over there think things look right, I'll post as is over here. Otherwise, I'll redo the measurements with whatever suggestions they have to provide me. Maybe somebody from Emotiva could offer some suggestions?
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,510
|
Post by LCSeminole on Sept 10, 2014 19:00:45 GMT -5
While I've been away on a business trip this week, I've noticed this thread on Analog bleed through. Luckily this doesn't effect me as I'm now primarily using only digital inputs, but I will try to reproduce what "bluescale" is investigating when I get back home tomorrow evening. I just read a reply by Kris Deering on another forum that states, "I can't help but make the comment about just turning off sources that are not in use so you don't have the problem in the first place. I can't think of a single time in all the years I've been doing this that I've ever just had some random source playing continuously on one input while using another. Especially an analog input." Personally I've had many a receiver and integrated amps that this would occur with and I personally never gave it much more thought. These were quite nice integrated amps by NAD and Onkyo Integra series, so I'm in the camp that believes this to be a non-factor in my listening enjoyment. Yes this might be a problem with multiple zones going at once, otherwise as Kris states above there is no problem if you just shut off the sources one might be using. Just my .02 cents as the sky has yet to fall in neck of the woods.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 10, 2014 19:16:24 GMT -5
I read that too and immediately thought of a zone 2 application or even if you have the analog outs of a STB (as I mentioned above) because of HDMI issues forcing you to go direct to display. This is one that just happen to show up by accident, but still should not have made it through bench testing at the labs. (I would think at least some of these made it to some analog testing like this?) But I'll admit if I had a XMC I would not have found this because I too have moved away from analog outs. Either way I'm sure emotiva is looking into it and a solution found soon. Also Kris Deering also mentioned in that thread that he is going to do some testing on his own after Cedia.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on Sept 10, 2014 23:36:59 GMT -5
Personally I've had many a receiver and integrated amps that this would occur with and I personally never gave it much more thought. These were quite nice integrated amps by NAD and Onkyo Integra series, so I'm in the camp that believes this to be a non-factor in my listening enjoyment. Yes this might be a problem with multiple zones going at once, otherwise as Kris states above there is no problem if you just shut off the sources one might be using. Just my .02 cents as the sky has yet to fall in neck of the woods. What I'm trying to determine is how prevalent an issue this is with audio gear. Here's what I posted on AVS in response to Kris: I'm leaning towards "not an issue" based on my testing, and the very limited feedback I'm getting from others who've taken time to test this out. What I'd really love to hear from people is: 1. What processor, integrated amp, AVR etc...they've tested with? 2. Do they see the same thing?
|
|
|
Post by linvincible on Sept 11, 2014 1:05:50 GMT -5
<evil mode>...or we could use it to play subliminal messages on the bleeding input ;o) </evil mode>
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,211
|
Post by geebo on Sept 11, 2014 7:03:36 GMT -5
Years ago, I had a Sansui integrated amp and one day when I put some music on I heard nothing. I turned the volume higher and higher until I could hear the music I put on albeit at a much much lower level. Way too low to listen to. I then saw I had selected the wrong source and when I hit the button the music came back but I had forgotten to turn the volume down. Wow, talk about a rush! But I was able to hear the source that was playing when another source was selected.
|
|
Timster
Sensei
Posting from Scarsdale, Vic, Australia
Posts: 140
|
Post by Timster on Sept 11, 2014 8:28:59 GMT -5
I've noticed this on many previous devices over the last 30 years, but never found it to be an issue, as usually have only one source operational.
Cheers Tim
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 11, 2014 11:40:41 GMT -5
Years ago, I had a Sansui integrated amp and one day when I put some music on I heard nothing. I turned the volume higher and higher until I could hear the music I put on albeit at a much much lower level. Way too low to listen to. I then saw I had selected the wrong source and when I hit the button the music came back but I had forgotten to turn the volume down. Wow, talk about a rush! But I was able to hear the source that was playing when another source was selected. But in this case we are talking about levels much higher than that. Did you see the video?
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,211
|
Post by geebo on Sept 11, 2014 11:44:27 GMT -5
Years ago, I had a Sansui integrated amp and one day when I put some music on I heard nothing. I turned the volume higher and higher until I could hear the music I put on albeit at a much much lower level. Way too low to listen to. I then saw I had selected the wrong source and when I hit the button the music came back but I had forgotten to turn the volume down. Wow, talk about a rush! But I was able to hear the source that was playing when another source was selected. But in this case we are talking about levels much higher than that. Did you see the video? Yes I did and I'd have to say what I experienced back then was similar. And that was when my memory was much better.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 11, 2014 11:53:16 GMT -5
If the levels were so low that you had to really strain to hear it, that is one thing. But when you can still hear it through the 7.1 inputs, well that kind of defeats the purpose of untouched inputs, don't you think?
Again, kudos to those that found this. I know I wouldn't have. And to those with no analog sources, this is a non issue for the most part.
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Sept 11, 2014 11:57:07 GMT -5
Not an AV Pre-Amp, but my Rogue Audio Cronus integrated amp has this undocumented "feature". In fact, one of the professional reviews even mentions it.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,211
|
Post by geebo on Sept 11, 2014 14:42:32 GMT -5
If the levels were so low that you had to really strain to hear it, that is one thing. But when you can still hear it through the 7.1 inputs, well that kind of defeats the purpose of untouched inputs, don't you think? Again, kudos to those that found this. I know I wouldn't have. And to those with no analog sources, this is a non issue for the most part. Just sayin' I experienced something similar and the results were way too low to listen to...not way too low to hear...meaning to sit back and enjoy. Didn't have to strain anything to hear it.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on Sept 12, 2014 1:23:55 GMT -5
All right...I got my measurements sorted out. Here's what I see when I send a measurement sweep from my laptop to the XMC over Analog input 2. Here is the basic setup: 1. Plugged my inexpensive external USB sound card into my laptop. 2. Plugged the headphone to RCA cable from the headphone out into Analog 2 on the XMC-1. 3. Ran the Left and Right channel from the XMC-1 back to the sound card input. 4. Set the XMC-1 to use Speaker Preset 2 (with all EQ, distance and level settings at 0) 5. Turned off all speakers but Left and Right 6. Set Left and Right to Large 7. Ran measurements Here are the results of each test, with the sweep signal coming into the XMC-1 via Analog input 2. XMC-1 turned off. I did this test to get a baseline of no signal going from the XMC-1 to the sound card: Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on Analog 2. This test is the show what the measurement sweep looks like when you're active input is selected: Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on Analog 3. Very noticeable bleeding: Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on Record. Very noticeable bleeding: Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on Balanced Stereo. Identical the XMC-1 turned off: Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on 7.1 Analog Bypass. Noticeable bleeding, primarily through the center channel. I'm surprised that the 7.1 Analog Bypass input matrixes sound out of the center channel, even though I only had 2 channels coming in via RCA, and all speakers but L and R turned off in the settings : Sweep playing on Analog 2, output on HDMI. Essentially the same as the XMC-1 turned off, although there is a little more noise in the low frequencies. The low frequency noise may have been a measurement error: All measurements overlaid:
|
|