geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 12, 2014 19:40:53 GMT -5
Concerning Zone 2 output, I don't think it was specifically tested yet so I set up a zone 2 output this afternoon to give it a go. Unfortunately when selecting and unused analog input (A3) I was able to hear loud and clear what I had connected though a different input (A2). Loud and clear? Like loud enough to be heard when listening to music played through the selected source?
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Post by richardrc on Sept 12, 2014 23:37:51 GMT -5
What possible reason would anyone have to use the analog multi channel inputs in the first place? Not trying to make excuses here for Emo but really man... Does this not defeat the purpose of a modern digital input PROCESSOR in the first place Couldn't agree more. It would free up a tonne of real estate on the back panel as well.
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Post by solidstate on Sept 12, 2014 23:43:42 GMT -5
What possible reason would anyone have to use the analog multi channel inputs in the first place? Not trying to make excuses here for Emo but really man... Does this not defeat the purpose of a modern digital input PROCESSOR in the first place Couldn't agree more. It would free up a tonne of real estate on the back panel as well. WOW You're the first person that has agreed with me and not crapped on my head! LOL
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edrummereasye
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Post by edrummereasye on Sept 13, 2014 3:07:06 GMT -5
I think it's been mentioned to you before by others, but it's not about just how you want to use the XMC-1. It's about meeting the needs of the greater public. It's wonderful that you've moved away from analog inputs (for the most part, so have I). Plenty of others still use analog. Perhaps you can't fathom why, but it's time you accepted the fact and moved on. OK but can you please cite a scenario where it makes sense to use 5/7.1 analog inputs with perhaps the exception of an edit suite with surround monitors where the inputs are coming from a pro audio sound card? Personally I can't think of any other scenario where this would be necessary or wise in terms of consumer use. Fancy DAC in your Blueray player perhaps? Well what's the point when you're going to have a ADC through the DSP engine anyway. I do have issue with the XMC-1 12v triggers kicking on and off when connected to a stack of UPA-1s and this is a disappointment. I have a feeling the trigger cannot provide enough current. You'd think Emo/Jade would be aware of the current draw for the 12V trigger on their amps and design a trigger circuit that could handle it. Lets hope they are working on a PCB revision change where the triggers can provide more current if this is in fact the issue vs. some kinda microcontroller issue. I guess I could just solder a resistor/cap/diode inline on the trigger cable but this is BS that they can't get the trigger circuit right so it works properly with their own amps for god's sake. How the heck could that have been over looked!?! I'm sure they were aware of the issue but decide to ship with the trigger PCBs in question. How the heck can I have a processor that doesn't have a working trigger? The UMC-1 had no issues with the UPA-1s trigger input current draw so why should the XMC-1!?! Perhaps a firmware update can fix this. The ana 7.1 is an "analog direct" input, I don't know that you can even apply DSPs to it...that's kind of the point. Uses include a fancy DAC in your HTPC (Xonar, a couple others I can't recall the names of - Auzentech maybe? There was one lots of people liked for swapping out op-amps a couple years back...and I imagine some of the people who went to all that trouble and found something they liked, might want to keep using it). I have a Xonar. I like it. Some people have their PCs set up with some fairly sophisticated pre-amp abilities, and may want to use them on certain sources...hell, even Windows 7/8 etc. have bass management etc. etc. built-in now, right on the control panel...and that's there before you even add a fancy soundcard. Some people also have older BD players that maybe don't have an HDMI out; e.g. my old Pioneer DVD/SACD player, which just floated out of my basement system. And finally, prior to HDMI and maybe even some of the early HDMI boxes, analog 7.1 was the ONLY way you could get DVD-A and/or SACD out of the box. And even more finally, some people are just funny like that, and maybe whatever they have hooked up to that input, on their system, in their room, yada yada. The trigger thing has been discussed, not positive because my amps trigger fine, but I'm 99.9% sure they already _have_ a firmware fix in-house. They'll also send you a cable and/or tell you the resistance or whatever other info you need if you want to make one. The triggers work fine with the majority of Emo's amps, it's certain models and for some models it's not even universal...also not sure if the solution is precisely the same for all, but I've heard resistors, cap/diode, etc. yes. Search here in Processors, shouldn't be too hard to find.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 13, 2014 9:02:14 GMT -5
OK but can you please cite a scenario where it makes sense to use 5/7.1 analog inputs with perhaps the exception of an edit suite with surround monitors where the inputs are coming from a pro audio sound card? Personally I can't think of any other scenario where this would be necessary or wise in terms of consumer use. Fancy DAC in your Blueray player perhaps? Well what's the point when you're going to have a ADC through the DSP engine anyway. I do have issue with the XMC-1 12v triggers kicking on and off when connected to a stack of UPA-1s and this is a disappointment. I have a feeling the trigger cannot provide enough current. You'd think Emo/Jade would be aware of the current draw for the 12V trigger on their amps and design a trigger circuit that could handle it. Lets hope they are working on a PCB revision change where the triggers can provide more current if this is in fact the issue vs. some kinda microcontroller issue. I guess I could just solder a resistor/cap/diode inline on the trigger cable but this is BS that they can't get the trigger circuit right so it works properly with their own amps for god's sake. How the heck could that have been over looked!?! I'm sure they were aware of the issue but decide to ship with the trigger PCBs in question. How the heck can I have a processor that doesn't have a working trigger? The UMC-1 had no issues with the UPA-1s trigger input current draw so why should the XMC-1!?! Perhaps a firmware update can fix this. The ana 7.1 is an "analog direct" input, I don't know that you can even apply DSPs to it...that's kind of the point. Uses include a fancy DAC in your HTPC (Xonar, a couple others I can't recall the names of - Auzentech maybe? There was one lots of people liked for swapping out op-amps a couple years back...and I imagine some of the people who went to all that trouble and found something they liked, might want to keep using it). I have a Xonar. I like it. Some people have their PCs set up with some fairly sophisticated pre-amp abilities, and may want to use them on certain sources...hell, even Windows 7/8 etc. have bass management etc. etc. built-in now, right on the control panel...and that's there before you even add a fancy soundcard. Some people also have older BD players that maybe don't have an HDMI out; e.g. my old Pioneer DVD/SACD player, which just floated out of my basement system. And finally, prior to HDMI and maybe even some of the early HDMI boxes, analog 7.1 was the ONLY way you could get DVD-A and/or SACD out of the box. And even more finally, some people are just funny like that, and maybe whatever they have hooked up to that input, on their system, in their room, yada yada. The trigger thing has been discussed, not positive because my amps trigger fine, but I'm 99.9% sure they already _have_ a firmware fix in-house. They'll also send you a cable and/or tell you the resistance or whatever other info you need if you want to make one. The triggers work fine with the majority of Emo's amps, it's certain models and for some models it's not even universal...also not sure if the solution is precisely the same for all, but I've heard resistors, cap/diode, etc. yes. Search here in Processors, shouldn't be too hard to find. It's correct that the 7.1 analog inputs cannot be passed through the DSP. This is excerpted from the manual: 1. 7.1 Unbalanced Analog Audio Inputs (1 set) Provides one set of unbalanced 7.1 channel surround audio inputs. The signals received at these inputs bypass all digital processing and are passed directly to the volume control and the preamp outputs. Typically, the analog surround sound outputs of an SACD player or external decoder are connected to these inputs.
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tubby
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Post by tubby on Sept 13, 2014 9:03:15 GMT -5
Concerning Zone 2 output, I don't think it was specifically tested yet so I set up a zone 2 output this afternoon to give it a go. Unfortunately when selecting and unused analog input (A3) I was able to hear loud and clear what I had connected though a different input (A2). Loud and clear? Like loud enough to be heard when listening to music played through the selected source? While I did not play something at the same time I would say yes. I think I started at a zone 2 volume of -30 or so, was 20" from the speakers and I would describe it as a quite wisper. At full volume I would equate it to regular conversation loudness.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 13, 2014 11:20:27 GMT -5
Loud and clear? Like loud enough to be heard when listening to music played through the selected source? While I did not play something at the same time I would say yes. I think I started at a zone 2 volume of -30 or so, was 20" from the speakers and I would describe it as a quite wisper. At full volume I would equate it to regular conversation loudness. I just tried it with mine. I have the Oppo connected via analog out to the Analog 1 input. I satarted playing a flac from the Oppo and then switched to the Analog 2 input. I had to turn up the volume to 0 before I could hear anything at all in a very quiet room at my normal listening position. I t was easier to hear when I set the level to +11 but it was nowhere close to what I would call loud and clear. If I didn't already know what was playing I may not have been able to identify the selection. Perhaps a difference in speaker efficiency?
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tubby
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Post by tubby on Sept 13, 2014 12:31:47 GMT -5
While I did not play something at the same time I would say yes. I think I started at a zone 2 volume of -30 or so, was 20" from the speakers and I would describe it as a quite wisper. At full volume I would equate it to regular conversation loudness. I just tried it with mine. I have the Oppo connected via analog out to the Analog 1 input. I satarted playing a flac from the Oppo and then switched to the Analog 2 input. I had to turn up the volume to 0 before I could hear anything at all in a very quiet room at my normal listening position. I t was easier to hear when I set the level to +11 but it was nowhere close to what I would call loud and clear. If I didn't already know what was playing I may not have been able to identify the selection. Perhaps a difference in speaker efficiency? that is not surprising. A1 and A2 are far apart on the back panel. If you look at my test on he first page I get the same result. Full volume and have to press my ear to the speaker. That is why I tested a2 and a3 for zone 2. They are right beside each other and the bleed is much easier to hear. Also my post should have said 20 feet not 20 inches. Easily hear from across the room.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 13, 2014 14:04:20 GMT -5
I just tried it with mine. I have the Oppo connected via analog out to the Analog 1 input. I satarted playing a flac from the Oppo and then switched to the Analog 2 input. I had to turn up the volume to 0 before I could hear anything at all in a very quiet room at my normal listening position. I t was easier to hear when I set the level to +11 but it was nowhere close to what I would call loud and clear. If I didn't already know what was playing I may not have been able to identify the selection. Perhaps a difference in speaker efficiency? that is not surprising. A1 and A2 are far apart on the back panel. If you look at my test on he first page I get the same result. Full volume and have to press my ear to the speaker. That is why I tested a2 and a3 for zone 2. They are right beside each other and the bleed is much easier to hear. Also my post should have said 20 feet not 20 inches. Easily hear from across the room. Okay, I tried it with A1 and A2 and don't get what you are. It's a bit louder but at -20dB is difficult to hear even with no other sounds in the room. So the difference could be the higher efficiency of you speakers and the higher gain of your amps. That may amount to about 10dB right there. I also tried a 25 (?) year old Sony TA-5650 integrated amp and any input I tried got audible bleed when the volume was turned up high enough.
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Post by bluescale on Sept 14, 2014 23:14:12 GMT -5
Thanks, geebo, for testing. I'd really like a few more people to test with other gear. I've now tested with the XMC-1, the UMC-1, my Melopdy SP3 integrated amp, and an old, cheapo Denon. All 4 display this behavior. I finally got someone else to test on AVS. Here's his response:
At this point, I'm not sure what to make of this. More people who have voted either yea or nay say they aren't experiencing this. Does this mean that what we're seeing here is cutting corners? I just don't know...I think it is revealing that the XSP-1 does not display this behavior. It goes to show that if you plan things out carefully, this can certainly be avoided.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2014 6:50:28 GMT -5
Thanks, geebo, for testing. I'd really like a few more people to test with other gear. I've now tested with the XMC-1, the UMC-1, my Melopdy SP3 integrated amp, and an old, cheapo Denon. All 4 display this behavior. I finally got someone else to test on AVS. Here's his response: At this point, I'm not sure what to make of this. More people who have voted either yea or nay say they aren't experiencing this. Does this mean that what we're seeing here is cutting corners? I just don't know...I think it is revealing that the XSP-1 does not display this behavior. It goes to show that if you plan things out carefully, this can certainly be avoided. When I first heard this of the XMC-1 my first reaction was no big deal and still is. I know I've experienced this many times in the past 40 some years with all kinds of equipment. It's just never been loud enough to interfere with music at normal and even loud listening levels. I also seldom have a source playing that I'm not listening too. Quite frankly, it's never been a concern of mine. But that's me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 8:24:10 GMT -5
I don't have any headphones, but how important is this when listening with headphones?
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 15, 2014 9:13:29 GMT -5
Thanks, geebo, for testing. I'd really like a few more people to test with other gear. I've now tested with the XMC-1, the UMC-1, my Melopdy SP3 integrated amp, and an old, cheapo Denon. All 4 display this behavior. I finally got someone else to test on AVS. Here's his response: At this point, I'm not sure what to make of this. More people who have voted either yea or nay say they aren't experiencing this. Does this mean that what we're seeing here is cutting corners? I just don't know...I think it is revealing that the XSP-1 does not display this behavior. It goes to show that if you plan things out carefully, this can certainly be avoided. When I first heard this of the XMC-1 my first reaction was no big deal and still is. I know I've experienced this many times in the past 40 some years with all kinds of equipment. It's just never been loud enough to interfere with music at normal and even loud listening levels. I also seldom have a source playing that I'm not listening too. Quite frankly, it's never been a concern of mine. But that's me. While this does not occur in my xmc-1 I believe it is a big deal. At this price point this should be able to be avoided with today's technology!
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2014 9:19:08 GMT -5
When I first heard this of the XMC-1 my first reaction was no big deal and still is. I know I've experienced this many times in the past 40 some years with all kinds of equipment. It's just never been loud enough to interfere with music at normal and even loud listening levels. I also seldom have a source playing that I'm not listening too. Quite frankly, it's never been a concern of mine. But that's me. While this does not occur in my xmc-1 I believe it is a big deal. At this price point this should be able to be avoided with today's technology! Then it's a big deal in a lot of equipment of both today and years past. It's definitely not something new. Like I said, I never play sources I not listening to so it's a non-issue. But if it's a big deal for you I can certainly understand. Maybe the XMC is not for you. What analog inputs are you having problems with?
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 15, 2014 9:28:58 GMT -5
While this does not occur in my xmc-1 I believe it is a big deal. At this price point this should be able to be avoided with today's technology! Then it's a big deal in a lot of equipment of both today and years past. It's definitely not something new. Like I said, I never play sources I not listening to so it's a non-issue. But if it's a big deal for you I can certainly understand. Maybe the XMC is not for you. Read before responding Garbo. It does not occur in my xmc-1!!! I love my xmc-1!!! At this price point, in 2014 not 1975 this should not be difficult to remedy, it seems no more than QC or shoddy design. Take off your Emo cape.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2014 9:35:07 GMT -5
Then it's a big deal in a lot of equipment of both today and years past. It's definitely not something new. Like I said, I never play sources I not listening to so it's a non-issue. But if it's a big deal for you I can certainly understand. Maybe the XMC is not for you. Read before responding Garbo. It does not occur in my xmc-1!!! I love my xmc-1!!! At this price point, in 2014 not 1975 this should not be difficult to remedy, it seems no more than QC or shoddy design. Take off your Emo cape. Well excuse me froggy1695. Is it a big deal for you or not? You say it should not be too difficult to remedy. How much do you know about the cause of the phenomenon and what might be necessary to cure it? Have you thought about calling tech support to ask them if they can help you with a problem you don't have?
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 15, 2014 9:39:44 GMT -5
Read before responding Garbo. It does not occur in my xmc-1!!! I love my xmc-1!!! At this price point, in 2014 not 1975 this should not be difficult to remedy, it seems no more than QC or shoddy design. Take off your Emo cape. Well excuse me froggy1695. Is it a big deal for you or not? Sigh, at this price point in the 21 century for two thousand dollars I would hope it could be avoided . I don't buy the it happens to everybody else so we can too thought process .
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Post by foggy1956 on Sept 15, 2014 9:40:40 GMT -5
Read before responding Garbo. It does not occur in my xmc-1!!! I love my xmc-1!!! At this price point, in 2014 not 1975 this should not be difficult to remedy, it seems no more than QC or shoddy design. Take off your Emo cape. Well excuse me froggy1695. Is it a big deal for you or not? I do kinda like the froggy moniker though☺
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2014 9:48:40 GMT -5
Well excuse me froggy1695. Is it a big deal for you or not? Sigh, at this price point in the 21 century for two thousand dollars I would hope it could be avoided . I don't buy the it happens to everybody else so we can too thought process . Does anyone here know what would be necessary to stop the anomaly from occurring? I'm quite sure if it was a simple thing it wouldn't be so common. Past and present.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2014 9:49:28 GMT -5
Well excuse me froggy1695. Is it a big deal for you or not? I do kinda like the froggy moniker though☺ If I were a Gretta, I might like the garbo reference.
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