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Post by garbulky on Jul 24, 2015 11:10:09 GMT -5
The features he wants is a receiver .... the quality he wants is separates! It's a conundrum! It maybe he may be better served for most of it....with a media server unit like the Olive One that outputs to his oppo.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 24, 2015 11:12:26 GMT -5
You are describing a receiver. Yes, but without the tuner & with only 2.1 channels instead of more. Also the streaming features I ask for (ability to read USB HDDs directly, without a computer server) make it far, far more than a receiver.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 24, 2015 11:22:01 GMT -5
Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Jul 24, 2015 11:26:04 GMT -5
Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla True!,,,,,,,but it's a mass-market world! This is a small nitch that most could never comprehend.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,958
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Post by KeithL on Jul 24, 2015 12:02:50 GMT -5
The main reason most companies don't want to combine media streaming into other products is that media streaming services have a VERY short life cycle compared to other audio equipment. That integrated amp you buy today will still play just fine in ten years. However, if it included a media streamer, it's a virtual certainty that the firmware will have to be updated in six months, to add some new service that just came out, or remove one that's gone under, or simply update the CODEC that someone is using. Do you really want to have to check for firmware updates on your integrated amp every other Tuesday, or risk your amplifier quitting due to a failed update, or have to throw away a perfectly working power amp because you can't get security updates for it - because the company is out of business, or just stopped supporting it? This isn't an issue for Blu-Ray players because they require periodic software updates in order to be able to play current discs anyway. (Although wouldn't you be unhappy if your $3k audiophile Blu-Ray player couldn't play any movie issued after January 2013 because the company stopped issuing updates?) Luckily, most Blu-Ray players these days end up in a land fill because they're obsolete long before that can happen. We may complain that new surround-sound standards come out too often, pushing us to update our pre/pro, but the rate at which Dolby and DTS release new standards is glacial compared to how often streaming services come and go. Things like amplifiers have so far remained as one of the few devices that you CAN expect to use for a long time, and which DON'T have to be updated periodically. It seems kind of a shame to ruin that by adding a part with an expiration date. Computers are cheaper. And people who use computers - and people who sell them - are used to the whole process of issuing and installing frequent updates, and accept the idea that their hardware will become obsolete in a few years. The few expensive audiophile media servers seem to me to be attempts to ignore these factors.... and I haven't seen any that were wildly commercially successful. (The products that succeed are things like the Apple TV, which is mediocre from an audiophile point of view, but has wide enough mass market appeal to sell a lot of units - which in turn justifies the ongoing cost of continuous updates.) Do you really want to pay $500 up front, and another $250 a year in "maintenance costs" to get the same functionality inside your XMC-1 that you can get from a $50 Roku or Apple Fire? Really? To me, the "game changer" will be a STANDARD for connecting these things - so you can buy whichever dongle you like, and just plug it into the "streaming media input". But, wait, we really sort of have that already.... you can plug your Roku, or Google Chromecast, or whatever comes out next year, into an HDMI port. (All we're missing is some sort of standard on the remote control so you could control it with your XMC-1 remote... ) Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla
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Post by chaosrv on Jul 24, 2015 12:12:23 GMT -5
Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla True!,,,,,,,but it's a mass-market world! This is a small Mitch that most could never comprehend. What does Mitch's height have to do with anything?
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,352
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Post by DYohn on Jul 24, 2015 12:25:18 GMT -5
Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla Rather than argue your points (and I think you are wrong on many of them) I'll just say give it up. You will never get what you claim you want, and by your own admission you would likely not want to pay for it if it existed because it would be "expensive." So give it up, and just do what normal people do: buy the separates you desire, hook it up and enjoy the music.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 24, 2015 12:27:37 GMT -5
"Media streamers" are just another opportunity for companies to charge outrageously high prices for a rather simple product. A media streamer is in essence nothing more than a computer with some software running it, and these days computers are dirt cheap - unless you call it a "media streamer" which then provides the justification for adding a huge markup to it. Maybe add some Krameresque-type faceplates to make it look fancy and wow, you've got yourself a completely different way to describe a computer. But that's how it goes.. people put a spin on something and that suddenly makes something a whole lot pricier. I was going to suggest Emo make some premium audiophile Ethernet cables that vastly improve the sound of signals being transmitted through it but then Audioquest already beat them to it so never mind. arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/gallery-we-tear-apart-a-340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-and-look-inside/
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Post by mgbpuff on Jul 24, 2015 12:30:12 GMT -5
Separates, separates, separates - I want separate everything, preamps, tuners, media players, dacs, processors, you name it. That is the only way to keep up to date without throwing out the baby with the bathtub with the entire bathroom with the entire house. Now Emotiva, give us at least a 16 channel pre-pro with all known current video and audio codecs and give us a separate 16 channel Dirac room compensation box to boot.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 24, 2015 12:33:42 GMT -5
Receivers are mature products. Media streamers are in their infancy. NOBODY has yet gotten the right mix for a media streamer. Why - Most of them are proprietary & won't let you add media in formats that they can't handle. Many of them are ridiculously expensive and do nothing that a (much cheaper) media server computer can't do. Further, nobody seems to have understood the potential synergy of combining a media server with a receiver. The majority of the public does not want a computer in their listening room. Nevertheless, the public already has smart phones & pads galore. By using existing devices as the controls for the media system (and by getting the computer out of the listening room), the combined device gets far greater public acceptance than any other combination now on the market. And garbulky is exactly right. To sell such a streamer/receiver for a reasonable price, separates quality is a must. Audiophile integrated amps are now common (some with DACs built in), but nobody has yet successfully combined a media server into these products. Naim has tried with its Naim Unitilite, but it lacks bass management, is underpowered, and can't accept direct USB hard drives. Three strikes - it's out! Sooner or later, somebody's going to make the integrated amplifier/dac/music streamer. And when they do, it'll make a LOT of money. The question is "which company is smart enough to get there first?" I'm hoping it's Emotiva. Boomzilla Rather than argue your points (and I think you are wrong on many of them) I'll just say give it up. You will never get what you claim you want, and by your own admission you would likely not want to pay for it if it existed because it would be "expensive." So give it up, and just do what normal people do: buy the separates you desire, hook it up and enjoy the music. You buy some "all in one" like that which is all premium stuff (like separates quality but all wrapped into one bundle) and sooner or later (most likely sooner) one or more parts of it will go obsolete. Or will break. And so since you've put all your eggs in one basket then either you subject yourself to not sleeping at night because a portion of this very fancy device is now obsolete, or you lay out the money to send back what will probably be a very heavy box to get it repaired. Or you can go the modular route and just buy high quality separates that make replacement and updating much more efficient. Now if you demand all this stuff and then wouldn't even be willing to buy it yourself... well, that's like all those folks who hollered loudly that fast food places should serve healthy stuff like salads, and then when they did so, they just kept buying greaseburgers and fatfries.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 24, 2015 12:48:16 GMT -5
Hey don't diss Mitch. He was the greatest!
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 24, 2015 13:28:15 GMT -5
I would like them to build firmware V3.1 for the xmc-1
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 24, 2015 13:58:02 GMT -5
I predict that within five years, Oppo will build EXACTLY what I've described - and I'll buy it!
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 24, 2015 14:30:25 GMT -5
I predict that within five years, Oppo will build EXACTLY what I've described - and I'll buy it! In five years, new technologies will have taken over and all the stuff you described in your dream machine will be obsolete and either ignored or valued only by "purists."
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 24, 2015 15:51:31 GMT -5
I predict that within five years, Oppo will build EXACTLY what I've described - and I'll buy it! But it'll probably have Sabre DAC's so I quite possibly won't like the sound Cheers Gary
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djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
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Post by djreef on Jul 28, 2015 14:13:32 GMT -5
I would love for Apple to make a REAL remote that works with iTunes. Something I can just point at the laptop and choose the song I'm pointing at and click on. I know this is an EMO product thread, but I can't help it. That stupid little white remote pisses me off.
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Post by mtglass on Aug 13, 2015 10:14:06 GMT -5
My want is a little more simple, a remote to work all Emo gear.
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jlamo
Sensei
Its a good day!
Posts: 192
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Post by jlamo on Aug 13, 2015 17:42:09 GMT -5
How about a dc-1 but add a ht bypass to it and a few 2 channel analog inputs if it don't already have them.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 13, 2015 17:47:29 GMT -5
How about a dc-1 but add a ht bypass to it and a few 2 channel analog inputs if it don't already have them. Good news you can already (almost) do that Buy the SP-1 with the DC-1 and you have essentially all of that. The HT bypass works by using one of the analog inputs and setting the volume to 0.00 However there is no bypass for the subs...
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jlamo
Sensei
Its a good day!
Posts: 192
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Post by jlamo on Aug 13, 2015 18:33:53 GMT -5
How about a dc-1 but add a ht bypass to it and a few 2 channel analog inputs if it don't already have them. Good news you can already (almost) do that Buy the SP-1 with the DC-1 and you have essentially all of that. The HT bypass works by using one of the analog inputs and setting the volume to 0.00 However there is no bypass for the subs... yeah the volume control would drive me crazy... I just want a button to push , and running the signal through 2 volume controls is a little concerning to me . Its funny thing that a pre/dac with a ht bypass seems logical for those of us that care less about ht (although enjoy ht) than music . The few companies that make them seem to get favorable reviews partly due to the concept and they charge a good premium for them also.
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