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Post by dkaudio on Aug 12, 2016 12:52:33 GMT -5
I had a Dirac graphs thread but am creating a new thread for this major issue I am having, very unpleased. If I am listening to music or watching a movie using Dirac, the processor does not get that loud. If I want more bass and trim up the sub channel the volume on my other speakers decreases. There is a point where I can keep turning the volume up on the processor and it does not get any louder. I have been told this is because Dirac is trying to eq things and is runing out of headroom. I had some people over yesterday, the volume stopped increasing at around -12db. It was not even loud, we were having a conversation over the music. I had some people give me a look like "that's it?" I changed it to Direct so I could at least turn it louder but then there is no correction and I cannot use all stereo which is great for a party type music setting. No one else has had this issue? In my other thread these are the things they recommended trying: -I have reran Dirac almost 10 times trying different things -Got a different mic (turns out I got a bad one from Emotiva originally) -Used my iNuke DSP to cut off my subs so Dirac brought in the curtains more so it stops eq'n where it is not needed -Toed in the speakers for more directional sound to the mic Here are my current Dirac graphs, it all looks pretty good I think... Fronts  Center  Surrounds  Sub 1  Sub 2  |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 12, 2016 14:14:34 GMT -5
The graphs do look pretty good. Why you're getting low volume is puzzling. Do you have anything between the XMC and the amps? Do you know the gain of the Inuke? And have you contacted Emotiva? I had a Dirac graphs thread but am creating a new thread for this major issue I am having, very unpleased. If I am listening to music or watching a movie using Dirac, the processor does not get that loud. If I want more bass and trim up the sub channel the volume on my other speakers decreases. There is a point where I can keep turning the volume up on the processor and it does not get any louder. I have been told this is because Dirac is trying to eq things and is runing out of headroom. I had some people over yesterday, the volume stopped increasing at around -12db. It was not even loud, we were having a conversation over the music. I had some people give me a look like "that's it?" I changed it to Direct so I could at least turn it louder but then there is no correction and I cannot use all stereo which is great for a party type music setting. No one else has had this issue? In my other thread these are the things they recommended trying: -I have reran Dirac almost 10 times trying different things -Got a different mic (turns out I got a bad one from Emotiva originally) -Used my iNuke DSP to cut off my subs so Dirac brought in the curtains more so it stops eq'n where it is not needed -Toed in the speakers for more directional sound to the mic Here are my current Dirac graphs, it all looks pretty good I think... Fronts Center Surrounds Sub 1 Sub 2 |
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Post by dkaudio on Aug 12, 2016 15:33:07 GMT -5
The graphs do look pretty good. Why you're getting low volume is puzzling. Do you have anything between the XMC and the amps? Do you know the gain of the Inuke? And have you contacted Emotiva? Thanks Geebo, I know you helped a lot in my other thread too. It gets loud enough to watch most movies I'd say but showing off the system to people not nearly loud enough! My old UMC-1 had way more "authority", it went plenty loud. The only change in the system was swapping processors. It goes direct to my XPA-5, nothing in between. The iNuke is about 3/4 I'd say. Have not contacted Emotiva, they are only open when I work and I assume I should be by the unit while calling. |
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Post by mshump on Aug 12, 2016 15:42:57 GMT -5
I would suggest under the SETUP preferences menu check what your max volume is set at.
Mark
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 12, 2016 15:54:44 GMT -5
The graphs do look pretty good. Why you're getting low volume is puzzling. Do you have anything between the XMC and the amps? Do you know the gain of the Inuke? And have you contacted Emotiva? Thanks Geebo, I know you helped a lot in my other thread too. It gets loud enough to watch most movies I'd say but showing off the system to people not nearly loud enough! My old UMC-1 had way more "authority", it went plenty loud. The only change in the system was swapping processors. It goes direct to my XPA-5, nothing in between. The iNuke is about 3/4 I'd say. Have not contacted Emotiva, they are only open when I work and I assume I should be by the unit while calling. I can't remember but did you try a factory reset and power down? I would be helpful if you could get your hands on an SPL meter to see what you're getting at your listening position. The only other thing I can think to try is to run Dirac without the Inuke and subs just to see if things behave the same. You would have to set subs to None in the Dirac setup. |
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Post by millst on Aug 12, 2016 20:03:15 GMT -5
The corrected graphs always look good. That's what Dirac does... Without the uncorrected measurement, the graphs are not helpful. What if your sub output looks like this and Dirac is providing massive boost? -tm Attachments:
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 12, 2016 21:17:35 GMT -5
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Post by mickseymour on Aug 13, 2016 3:08:46 GMT -5
A factory reset is worth trying.
I did one on mine to see if it would cure an intermittent lip sync problem, which it did, although ARC stopped working thereafter. After reloading my settings the Dirac preset was between 4 and 6db louder than it was before, measured with an SPL meter on each channel. I spoke to Keith at Emotiva and he said that was 'odd', and said that they had no control over what Dirac/XMC-1 did to maintain headroom.
A factory reset does not remove the Dirac settings but I reloaded my project and downloaded the settings to the XMC-1 anyway. It made no difference to the levels; still 4-6db higher than before although each channel was within ±1db of each other. As Emotiva couldn't explain why, I re-trimmed each channel to match them and now set the volume 5db lower than I have used for the last 15 months.
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Post by usxplong on Aug 13, 2016 14:31:06 GMT -5
I had a Dirac graphs thread but am creating a new thread for this major issue I am having, very unpleased. If I am listening to music or watching a movie using Dirac, the processor does not get that loud. If I want more bass and trim up the sub channel the volume on my other speakers decreases. There is a point where I can keep turning the volume up on the processor and it does not get any louder. I have been told this is because Dirac is trying to eq things and is runing out of headroom. I had some people over yesterday, the volume stopped increasing at around -12db. It was not even loud, we were having a conversation over the music. I had some people give me a look like "that's it?" I changed it to Direct so I could at least turn it louder but then there is no correction and I cannot use all stereo which is great for a party type music setting. No one else has had this issue? In my other thread these are the things they recommended trying: -I have reran Dirac almost 10 times trying different things -Got a different mic (turns out I got a bad one from Emotiva originally) -Used my iNuke DSP to cut off my subs so Dirac brought in the curtains more so it stops eq'n where it is not needed -Toed in the speakers for more directional sound to the mic Here are my current Dirac graphs, it all looks pretty good I think... Fronts Center Surrounds Sub 1 Sub 2 Lower your sub level on XMC-1 and make it louder the same amount on your sub. You will get the same bass and your XMC-1 will go louder by the amount of db you lowered your sub. And make sure you don't lower your sub too much. I think 4-5 db should be fine. |
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Post by sme on Aug 14, 2016 16:10:41 GMT -5
Did you figure it out?
I assume the XMC-1 is trying to protect you from being clipped, limiting the volume control to compensate for where it boosted the signal. If the headroom limitation is in the sub channel, then the above suggestion should help. Hopefully your subs can handle the signal they are being asked to reproduce. Otherwise, if it's in the mains channels, you may be asking more of your system than it can provide. Room correction costs headroom, big time. If the XMC-1 approaches clipping, it will be putting out enough volts that the XPA-5 will already be clipping. I'm personally a big advocate for speakers with higher sensitivity and efficiency for a number of reasons including the need for way more headroom to get the most out of room correction.
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2016 16:37:40 GMT -5
Room treatment a way better solution than active equalization, IMO.
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Post by dkaudio on Aug 14, 2016 19:52:59 GMT -5
I would suggest under the SETUP preferences menu check what your max volume is set at. Mark +11 db, the max. That's not the issue, it stops increasing even at -5 or less due to headroom I guess. I can't remember but did you try a factory reset and power down? I would be helpful if you could get your hands on an SPL meter to see what you're getting at your listening position. The only other thing I can think to try is to run Dirac without the Inuke and subs just to see if things behave the same. You would have to set subs to None in the Dirac setup. I did a long time ago, not since getting the new mic and the new Dirac settings. I could try without the subs, it just takes hours of time to do it. I have to bring my office PC and monitor out in the living room and bring long CAT5 cables out from my router, ugh, a pain to set up. Thanks, I'll have to read these when I get some time. Did you figure it out? I assume the XMC-1 is trying to protect you from being clipped, limiting the volume control to compensate for where it boosted the signal. If the headroom limitation is in the sub channel, then the above suggestion should help. Hopefully your subs can handle the signal they are being asked to reproduce. Otherwise, if it's in the mains channels, you may be asking more of your system than it can provide. Room correction costs headroom, big time. If the XMC-1 approaches clipping, it will be putting out enough volts that the XPA-5 will already be clipping. I'm personally a big advocate for speakers with higher sensitivity and efficiency for a number of reasons including the need for way more headroom to get the most out of room correction. I haven't yet, it's been this way since I first ran Dirac, like I said, so far I'm extremely disappointed in the XMC performance, my UMC was leaps and bounds ahead in volume and authority (I'm not talking about SQ). |
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Post by fbczar on Aug 15, 2016 8:41:00 GMT -5
I had a Dirac graphs thread but am creating a new thread for this major issue I am having, very unpleased. If I am listening to music or watching a movie using Dirac, the processor does not get that loud. If I want more bass and trim up the sub channel the volume on my other speakers decreases. There is a point where I can keep turning the volume up on the processor and it does not get any louder. I have been told this is because Dirac is trying to eq things and is runing out of headroom. I had some people over yesterday, the volume stopped increasing at around -12db. It was not even loud, we were having a conversation over the music. I had some people give me a look like "that's it?" I changed it to Direct so I could at least turn it louder but then there is no correction and I cannot use all stereo which is great for a party type music setting. No one else has had this issue? In my other thread these are the things they recommended trying: -I have reran Dirac almost 10 times trying different things -Got a different mic (turns out I got a bad one from Emotiva originally) -Used my iNuke DSP to cut off my subs so Dirac brought in the curtains more so it stops eq'n where it is not needed -Toed in the speakers for more directional sound to the mic Here are my current Dirac graphs, it all looks pretty good I think... Fronts Center Surrounds Sub 1 Sub 2 Are you using Dirac Full or LE? If you are using Dirac Full a custom room curve can probably address the problem. Dirac has a range of 10db of boost or attenuation that can be used to provide a response that matches whatever curve is being used. Attenuation works really well, but boost is another story. If you have a real null no amount of boost will work. Dirac may be attenuating in the extreme because it cannot boost adequately due to the amount of boost required. I need to see the results of the measurements before correction. Your graphs only show what Dirac wanted to do and what it actually did. If you look at the actual measurements and relate them to the baseline of 0db you can tell what Dirac is doing. Can you post graphs with all the info? |
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Post by dkaudio on Aug 18, 2016 9:55:54 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay, I will be out of town for a week starting tomorrow as well...sorry been busy.
I'm using LE but that is what makes me so upset; to have this big of a limitation on a multi thousand dollar processor unless I spend more money? I understand what is possibly going wrong, I'm just so unsatisfied with the current results.
I will try to post the before graphs tonight before I go out of town. I believe I saved the file so I should just be able to pull it up and do some screen shots.
Thanks for all the help!
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Post by dkaudio on Aug 28, 2016 21:20:10 GMT -5
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Post by millst on Aug 29, 2016 0:03:39 GMT -5
Look at your sub graphs. See all the gain being applied by Dirac? It's not as exaggerated as my silly line, but it is significant.
If your subs have another 8dB of gain to play with, then Dirac would hardly be applying any boost, mostly cuts. Can you raise their level and lower the XMC-1 level?
-tm
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 29, 2016 7:05:27 GMT -5
+1. Also a lot of boost in the upper frequencies in your other speakers.
Can you post the REW graphs?
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Post by millst on Aug 29, 2016 10:31:51 GMT -5
Yeah, if adjusting the sub doesn't help, you'll probably need to redraw the target curve to deal with the other speakers.
-tm
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Aug 29, 2016 10:43:33 GMT -5
Yeah, if adjusting the sub doesn't help, you'll probably need to redraw the target curve to deal with the other speakers. -tm Except that he can't redo the target curve with the LE version of Dirac. |
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Post by millst on Aug 29, 2016 10:56:24 GMT -5
Yes, I recall OP didn't want to spend more, but I doubt there will be any great free way to get around that rolloff. Maybe hack the mic cal file.
-tm
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