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Post by sirreal on Apr 16, 2018 21:04:53 GMT -5
I've been really busy with a lot coming at me and haven't been keeping up but I just was reading an old posting by Dan asking if there was any interest in a $1000 pre-pro but it's from way back in 2016. Yes I want something like what was described or I guess an updated Emersa. Without all the extras I'm hoping the physical size of the unit could also be somewhat smaller than the XMC-1.
What I'm interested in and I think a lot of other people might be interested too, is a United States made pre-pro that comes in under $1500 or even better around $1000. A basic XMC-1 which does not have things like a FM tuner or zone capability, or a phono preamp, but does do 4K and has a nice display with assignable input, volume readout, and when playing audio files, digital decoding info.
Something a step up from the MC-700 but without all the things I would never need that all the big pre-pros throw in. I have used Rotel and Anthem pre-pros in the past which I've been happy with for both music and video but now that I have 4K capability I'm interested in a new unit.
I probably could be happy with the MC-700 for video and one of my dac to preamp combinations for stereo listening.
Also what happened to the dac/headphone amp that was around $500. I can't remember the name but by the time I get around to actually buying it's gone. I did get a BasX A-300 Amp a while back and originally bought it for my surrounds but of course I had to try it on my front channels and I have to say I'm impressed. I won't go through all the brands of amps I've owned but this is just a very good sounding amplifier and it even sounded good right out of the box.
When I demo this for people with various Magnepans I just play it without mentioning it sells for only $400. It can image and has transparency and punch. It also has an elusive quality I seldom find … it makes me want to keep listening
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 16, 2018 21:10:45 GMT -5
^^ +1 for the BasX A300 - one of the very best sounding amps Emotiva's ever made!
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 16, 2018 21:45:46 GMT -5
I've been really busy with a lot coming at me and haven't been keeping up but I just was reading an old posting by Dan asking if there was any interest in a $1000 pre-pro but it's from way back in 2016. Yes I want something like what was described or I guess an updated Emersa. Without all the extras I'm hoping the physical size of the unit could also be somewhat smaller than the XMC-1. What I'm interested in and I think a lot of other people might be interested too, is a United States made pre-pro that comes in under $1500 or even better around $1000. A basic XMC-1 which does not have things like a FM tuner or zone capability, or a phono preamp, but does do 4K and has a nice display with assignable input, volume readout, and when playing audio files, digital decoding info. Something a step up from the MC-700 but without all the things I would never need that all the big pre-pros throw in. I have used Rotel and Anthem pre-pros in the past which I've been happy with for both music and video but now that I have 4K capability I'm interested in a new unit. I probably could be happy with the MC-700 for video and one of my dac to preamp combinations for stereo listening. Also what happened to the dac/headphone amp that was around $500. I can't remember the name but by the time I get around to actually buying it's gone. I did get a BasX A-300 Amp a while back and originally bought it for my surrounds but of course I had to try it on my front channels and I have to say I'm impressed. I won't go through all the brands of amps I've owned but this is just a very good sounding amplifier and it even sounded good right out of the box. When I demo this for people with various Magnepans I just play it without mentioning it sells for only $400. It can image and has transparency and punch. It also has an elusive quality I seldom find … it makes me want to keep listening What do you see as the downside to using the MC-700 for stereo? Questionable pre or DAC's? |
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Post by tailsawaggin on Apr 18, 2018 14:50:47 GMT -5
What I'm interested in and I think a lot of other people might be interested too, is a United States made pre-pro that comes in under $1500 or even better around $1000. A basic XMC-1 which does not have things like a FM tuner or zone capability, or a phono preamp, but does do 4K and has a nice display with assignable input, volume readout, and when playing audio files, digital decoding info. Something a step up from the MC-700 but without all the things I would never need that all the big pre-pros throw in. I have used Rotel and Anthem pre-pros in the past which I've been happy with for both music and video but now that I have 4K capability I'm interested in a new unit. This, with Dirac in it, and you can  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 18, 2018 15:39:19 GMT -5
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Post by sirreal on Apr 19, 2018 1:30:31 GMT -5
Sorry about taking so long to get to this thread. I did enjoy reading the reponses.
Regarding the Boomzilla response, the question I keep asking myself is how many other people know how good the BasX A-300 is? This has to be the sweet spot for the BasX line up because with only 2 channels it would be the least compromised. I've been at this a long time but this little amp actually surprised me. It's a little ass kicker. like I mentioned I originally bought it just to cover my side surrounds but when I tried it up front it floored me. With the right front end it can strike just the right balance of bite and still have that glow within quality.
Ex_Vintage asked what I thought the downside of the MC-700 is and maybe I need to just hear one before I rule it out judged by how far above it's weight the BasX amp punches maybe the MC-700 would impress me too. This is my biggest room and I use it for projection video but also listen to a lot of music in there and I have sound treatment and good placement of the speakers etc. and both the Rotel and Anthem processors I've had could do both.
I did download the manual for the MC-700 and will be going over it. I really do like all the info the XMC-1 display gives you and I had that with the Rotel and Anthem. I'm thinking the MC-700 does do inputs you can name and vol read out but doesn't give you all the decoding info in the display such as 96kHz etc. Can anyone answer that?
I guess where I'm coming from is so many people are making nice loaded surround processors for $2000 and up with zone capability, phono preamps, tuners, and stuff I don't need including Emotiva, but no one that I know of is making something $1000 to $1500 right now. Maybe if it keeps coming up in threads Dan will see the hole in the lineup.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 19, 2018 5:44:44 GMT -5
The math can't add up with a stripped XMC coming in at 1/2 of its current price. Taking out the FM tuner, zone capability, and the phono preamp, doesn't add up to a $1000 in reduced manufacturing costs that Emotiva can then pass on to you. It doesn't add up to even 1/2 that.  So your best bet is something with a little less performance without advanced room correction (no Dirac). BTW what I just described is the MC-700.  ...but another option is a used XMC still under some warranty. |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Apr 19, 2018 15:49:59 GMT -5
I did download the manual for the MC-700 and will be going over it. I really do like all the info the XMC-1 display gives you and I had that with the Rotel and Anthem. I'm thinking the MC-700 does do inputs you can name and vol read out but doesn't give you all the decoding info in the display such as 96kHz etc. Can anyone answer that? Yes; with the MC-700 you can re-name the inputs it and gives you a volume readout. In my case Emo Pre/Pro and Amp are in a cabinet below my flat screen, so from 7 or 8 feet away, they cannot be read (too small). You can also get the information for the decoding the unit is using based on the input material in the display, its a matter of hitting the INFO button on the remote and the display switches from mode to decoder. I am using the MC-700 in a 5.1 system with the primary goal being good stereo. As far as sound goes (and I have nothing relevant to compare it to) the MC-700 sounds great with the A-500 amp and the CD-100 used as a transport. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 19, 2018 21:43:05 GMT -5
The math can't add up with a stripped XMC coming in at 1/2 of its current price. Taking out the FM tuner, zone capability, and the phono preamp, doesn't add up to a $1000 in reduced manufacturing costs that Emotiva can then pass on to you. It doesn't add up to even 1/2 that. So your best bet is something with a little less performance without advanced room correction (no Dirac). BTW what I just described is the MC-700. ...but another option is a used XMC still under some warranty. What's the XMC-1's "current price:, is it $2,499 (4K), $2,999 (Atmos) or $3,499 (Gen 3)? How about taking out; AM/FM Tuner Zone 2 Zone 3 Phono preamp Differential circuitry XLR outputs Dual display Independent crossover settings Selectable dynamic range control. Selectable Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation Global bass and treble controls with user selectable turnover points (and just for Bonzo) Record Out (analog & S/PDIF) and only providing; a single trigger out basic DIRAC with no customised response curve mono base management It's not that hard to get down to somewhere in the $1200 to $1800 price range. An no it's not an MC-700 as it has Atmos/DTSX, full 4K HDR and basic DIRAK (in lieu of EmoQ) it's a step up from an MC-700, with an XMC-1 being a 2 or 3 steps up depending on which version. Cheers Gary |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 20, 2018 8:05:47 GMT -5
The math can't add up with a stripped XMC coming in at 1/2 of its current price. Taking out the FM tuner, zone capability, and the phono preamp, doesn't add up to a $1000 in reduced manufacturing costs that Emotiva can then pass on to you. It doesn't add up to even 1/2 that. So your best bet is something with a little less performance without advanced room correction (no Dirac). BTW what I just described is the MC-700. ...but another option is a used XMC still under some warranty. What's the XMC-1's "current price:, is it $2,499 (4K), $2,999 (Atmos) or $3,499 (Gen 3)? How about taking out; AM/FM Tuner Zone 2 Zone 3 Phono preamp Differential circuitry XLR outputs Dual display Independent crossover settings Selectable dynamic range control. Selectable Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation Global bass and treble controls with user selectable turnover points (and just for Bonzo) Record Out (analog & S/PDIF) and only providing; a single trigger out basic DIRAC with no customised response curve mono base management It's not that hard to get down to somewhere in the $1200 to $1800 price range. An no it's not an MC-700 as it has Atmos/DTSX, full 4K HDR and basic DIRAK (in lieu of EmoQ) it's a step up from an MC-700, with an XMC-1 being a 2 or 3 steps up depending on which version. Cheers Gary The original selling price of the XMC-1 was $1999 when released with all features listed above. A stripped version at only a few hundred less isn't that much of a bargain. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 20, 2018 8:43:42 GMT -5
It's too bad there isn't a company that will build you a custom prepro with just the features you want, sort of like 'build your own burger'. But someone would pop up with 'how about chicken'!
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 20, 2018 9:28:47 GMT -5
What do you see as the downside to using the MC-700 for stereo? Questionable pre or DAC's? Agree on this. I couldn't tell a difference in 2.1 between my MC and XMC-1; it is a gem of a pre-amp. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 20, 2018 13:18:45 GMT -5
What's the XMC-1's "current price:, is it $2,499 (4K), $2,999 (Atmos) or $3,499 (Gen 3)? How about taking out; AM/FM Tuner Zone 2 Zone 3 Phono preamp Differential circuitry XLR outputs Dual display Independent crossover settingsl Selectable dynamic range control. Selectable Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation Global bass and treble controls with user selectable turnover points (and just for Bonzo) Record Out (analog & S/PDIF) and only providing; a single trigger out basic DIRAC with no customised response curve mono base management It's not that hard to get down to somewhere in the $1200 to $1800 price range. An no it's not an MC-700 as it has Atmos/DTSX, full 4K HDR and basic DIRAK (in lieu of EmoQ) it's a step up from an MC-700, with an XMC-1 being a 2 or 3 steps up depending on which version. The original selling price of the XMC-1 was $1999 when released with all features listed above. A stripped version at only a few hundred less isn't that much of a bargain. But the original XMC-1 didn't have 4K and Atmos/DTSX which are must haves these days. Many would see this XMC-1L (to re use Dan's original title) not as a "stripped" version but as one with what they want/need and without what they don't want/need at a price that they want to pay. Plus it's of course an unfair comparison as the original XMC-1 pricing didn't include dealer margin, which is not going away. Cheers Gary |
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Post by tailsawaggin on Apr 20, 2018 17:24:50 GMT -5
Meanwhile, NAD has already done it.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 20, 2018 18:44:36 GMT -5
The original selling price of the XMC-1 was $1999 when released with all features listed above. A stripped version at only a few hundred less isn't that much of a bargain. But the original XMC-1 didn't have 4K and Atmos/DTSX which are must haves these days. Many would see this XMC-1L (to re use Dan's original title) not as a "stripped" version but as one with what they want/need and without what they don't want/need at a price that they want to pay. Plus it's of course an unfair comparison as the original XMC-1 pricing didn't include dealer margin, which is not going away. Cheers Gary Agreed, but this thread is about a stripped down version. No Atmos/Dtsx mentioned as a requirement. (until now) |
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Post by overtheair on Apr 20, 2018 19:48:26 GMT -5
Agreed, but this thread is about a stripped down version. No Atmos/Dtsx mentioned as a requirement. (until now) The thread is actually titled "The Sweet Spot for a Pre-Pro?" which could be asking what individuals consider this to be for their personal use or what it is for the broader market (and indirectly perhaps what it is for Emotiva to address this market.) From the latter perspective I agree with Gary. There are a slew of AVR's with pre-outs in the market between $1000 and $1500 offering 5.1.2 through to 7.1.4 outputs, 4K (HDMI 2.0b), room correction, Atmos and DTS:X along with a bunch of other capabilities. Some of those AVR's even have decent amplification for some of the channels like the NAD offering which also has Dirac. We can try to assess Emotiva's costs for either the original XMC-1 based Gen 2 or the new platform based XMC-1 Gen 3 in order to second guess as to whether Emotiva can profitably address this market leveraging these platforms or developing something else entirely but we really don't know what their costs are so it doesn't seem very constructive IMHO. What I'm fairly confident in saying is that a non-Atmos solution without a user friendly room correction at this price range will be a niche. I thought that Dan had already acknowledged this too after deciding not to pursue the Emersa level of specification but perhaps I'm confused on that. In my view the gap between the $699 MC-700 and the XMC-1's at $2,499 (4K), $2,999 (Atmos) or $3,499 (Gen 3) is a very large gap in the product line. |
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Post by sirreal on Apr 20, 2018 21:57:20 GMT -5
I guess part of what we are dealing with here is the average consumer goes for the AVR with the amplification built in and the market for preamp processors is just not large enough to support that many different models.
That said I have no doubt that someone can and will make a real bang for the buck preamp processor that comes in somewhere around $1500. A far as NAD I'm only seeing a AVR version currently so I don't know if they dropped the pre-pro or what.
Until then I will probably go with the MC-700.
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 20, 2018 22:28:11 GMT -5
I've been watching this thread as it's progressed. Yes, the market for a pre/pro is small compared to AVRs. That is unlikely to change unless a few thing happen, such as the trend by manufacturers to reduce the jacks needed for input and output, as well as most of the legacy connections. Best case scenario for the manufacturers is for an AVR or AVP to have a single cable connection, cheaper for them - less attractive for many of us that like flexibility almost as much as audio quality. Most consumers that buy an AVR with preamp output jacks probably have no idea what they are for. Not many AVRs these days have direct input jacks, and not many more than that have the preamp out jacks. I'm sure the manufacturers will continue to produce models so we 1%ers can connect our amps to their AVRs - but the trend to remove those features from mid range models seems to be catching on. Onkyo had many AVR models that had preamp out jacks back when I still liked them! The 7x7 models were the lowest model with preamp out jacks. Somewhere after the 707 they removed those jacks at that level. Leaving a potential buyer to have to consider a higher end model or another brand. Something I did after being surprised by the Onkyo TX-NR717 I was seriously considering, but lacked. Good thing I did my homework. Having a UPA-7 meant I wanted preamp out jacks. So I bought the 818 which does have preamp out jacks. See how that works? Plus it's of course an unfair comparison as the original XMC-1 pricing didn't include dealer margin, which is not going away. Cheers Gary Astute observation Gary! And that's where Emotiva's growing problems are going to come from. IMO they are no longer an Internet Direct company. And the rub is their prices will begin to put them in the price range of a many other companies that currently cannot compete with Emotiva. Nice thing about Emotiva's position currently is they pocket the dealer's cut from ID sales - plus the the cut they'd make on the ID sale. For me their most attractive feature was prices. Prices are no longer attractive to me. The only thing I might consider buying is their Airmotiv passive speakers. They should have kept a few of the Reference line going. The little ERM-1 is a beast of a bookshelf speaker. You can buy a pair for around $200 shipped. I've heard $900 bookshelf speakers that were no better, IMO. Amazing clarity and big sound. How costly could it be to manufacture something like that in Franklin? I still regret selling the pair I had for many years. I'm still looking for the next almost perfect (needs a sub) bookshelf speaker for the bedroom. The only reason the ERM-1s are gone is they require a sub. IMO the worst place in any house to put a sub is the bedroom. My toes have finally healed. No more subs in the bedroom. |
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Post by cwt on Apr 20, 2018 23:30:18 GMT -5
I thought that Dan had already acknowledged this too after deciding not to pursue the Emersa level of specification but perhaps I'm confused on that. In my view the gap between the $699 MC-700 and the XMC-1's at $2,499 (4K), $2,999 (Atmos) or $3,499 (Gen 3) is a very large gap in the product line. When you put a few things together I have a good feeling about a mid level pre pro Dan withdrawing the emp1 for retooling for atmos ; the "big surprise" Lonnie cant divulge yet which was mentioned in the last podcast ; the basic xmc1 framework already in place as we see the expansion of the line from the RMC1 to its "sister ship" top of the line avr version XMR1 ; a mid level matching gen 3 looks inevitable.. we'll see |
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Post by MusicHead on Apr 21, 2018 8:41:39 GMT -5
I guess part of what we are dealing with here is the average consumer goes for the AVR with the amplification built in and the market for preamp processors is just not large enough to support that many different models. That said I have no doubt that someone can and will make a real bang for the buck preamp processor that comes in somewhere around $1500. A far as NAD I'm only seeing a AVR version currently so I don't know if they dropped the pre-pro or what. Until then I will probably go with the MC-700. NAD have two multi-channel pre-pros, the T187 and M17 V2. They are priced around $3,000 and $6,000 respectively, so certainly not in the price range being discussed. I had a NAD T752 5.1 AVR for many years. Great sounding device, even in 2-ch, with gobs of power for an AVR. |
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