jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 27, 2011 19:01:53 GMT -5
Does Sony, Anthem, Conrad Johnson, Sunfire use THX certifications? Personally, I'm not ready to pay for badging. THX has no clout in the audiophiule community. I think it is for manufacturers with a history of poor construction who want to change their image. I could be wrong
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Post by billmac on Mar 27, 2011 19:14:35 GMT -5
Does Sony, Anthem, Conrad Johnson, Sunfire use THX certifications? Personally, I'm not ready to pay for badging. THX has no clout in the audiophiule community. I think it is for manufacturers with a history of poor construction who want to change their image. I could be wrong I would say you are incorrect as Anthem does use THX certification and their prepros certainly do not suffer from poor construction. Onkyo/Integra uses THX certification on their top tier AVRs and on their 5508/80.2 prepros. I would say that Onkyo/Integra do not suffer from poor construction either. Bill
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Post by flamingeye on Mar 27, 2011 20:18:57 GMT -5
Me personally I don`t need/look for THX certification or even use it when my unit has it but it still has some clout with a lot of people regular consumers and audiophiles alike
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 16:49:16 GMT -5
Bill: I think that my statement was too general. Yes, not all manufacturers use THX certification to cover poor manufacturing. However, I believe that most do. I don't think that the method THX uses to test for compliance does guarantee adherence to their alleged standards. Any manufacturer which is vaguely serious about producing an acceptably performing product can meet the THX standard.
However, the reality of sales dictates that THX sells (just like sex. Not necessarily good but it creates interests). Therefore, manufacturers like Anthem possibly feel the need to include THX certification to increase sales. For the cost of their components, their customers won't feel the added cost. I don't feel the same about Onkyo and similar model per month manufacturers which tend to include THX mostly in their more expensive products. I can't see how they meet THX certification when their under powered amplifiers run so hot. But that's just me!
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Post by billmac on Mar 28, 2011 18:16:43 GMT -5
Bill: I think that my statement was too general. Yes, not all manufacturers use THX certification to cover poor manufacturing. However, I believe that most do. I don't think that the method THX uses to test for compliance does guarantee adherence to their alleged standards. Any manufacturer which is vaguely serious about producing an acceptably performing product can meet the THX standard. However, the reality of sales dictates that THX sells (just like sex. Not necessarily good but it creates interests). Therefore, manufacturers like Anthem possibly feel the need to include THX certification to increase sales. For the cost of their components, their customers won't feel the added cost. I don't feel the same about Onkyo and similar model per month manufacturers which tend to include THX mostly in their more expensive products. I can't see how they meet THX certification when their under powered amplifiers run so hot. But that's just me! I really do not know why some companies have THX and some do not. I certainly do not consider it a must have feature if the AVR or prepro is a solid product. But I think before you dismiss THX as just a bunch of BS you should do a little research on their requirements to be able to be THX certified. Anthem certainly does not need the THX badge to help sell their highly regarded prepros. I'm really not sure why you would even think that. Why do you think companies with AVR/prepros with THX are trying to cover for poor manufacturing? Maybe it is a bunch of BS but I'm not going to post here that it is without knowing anything about THX. Remember you did not even realize that Anthem's prepros are THX certified. So not knowing that leads me to believe you are not to familiar with THX certified products or the process to meet THX certification. I'm not sure if you realize that Onkyo/Integra prepros that are THX certified do not have amps in them . Also it is fairly well known that the reason some Onkyo/Integras run hot is attributed to the video processing boards used. Bill
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Post by 2muchht on Mar 28, 2011 18:28:37 GMT -5
...I don't think that the method THX uses to test for compliance does guarantee adherence to their alleged standards. Any manufacturer which is vaguely serious about producing an acceptably performing product can meet the THX standard... The THX specifications are confidential, but I assure you that they are NOT something that it is any product can meet. Whether they define things that a user might want or not is subject to discussion, and has been since the start of the THX program many, many years ago. They are well thought out and quite specific and the original testing was scientific, not anncedotal. You can agree with that Tom started, but he just didn't pull it out of a hat one morning. As to the testing, it is quite serious and I can assure you the you just don't "pay for the badging". No more or no less than when a product is submitted for testing by Dolby, DTS, HDMI, UL/CSA, FCC and other IP licensors, safety labs (NRTLs) or regulatory bodies. Perhaps THX doesn't have the resonance and importance to the community that it did in the early days of analog home theater. Some think it has value, some don't. That's a matter of personal opinion and all are entitled to their opinion. Let your opinion about the value not cloud the FACT that the standards are strict and very strictly enforced. To say more would violate a number of NDAs.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 28, 2011 19:34:15 GMT -5
Bill: I think that my statement was too general. Yes, not all manufacturers use THX certification to cover poor manufacturing. However, I believe that most do. I don't think that the method THX uses to test for compliance does guarantee adherence to their alleged standards. Any manufacturer which is vaguely serious about producing an acceptably performing product can meet the THX standard. However, the reality of sales dictates that THX sells (just like sex. Not necessarily good but it creates interests). Therefore, manufacturers like Anthem possibly feel the need to include THX certification to increase sales. For the cost of their components, their customers won't feel the added cost. I don't feel the same about Onkyo and similar model per month manufacturers which tend to include THX mostly in their more expensive products. I can't see how they meet THX certification when their under powered amplifiers run so hot. But that's just me! This is simply not true, sorry.
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budda
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Post by budda on Mar 28, 2011 20:07:37 GMT -5
THX doesn't mean jack, in the general sense. There are THX certification levels for different pieces of gear at different tiers. It's there on the THX site if you care to read it. I've got a Logitech THX-Certified computer speaker system, and it is 100% unlistenable. $600 for something a little $200 USB speaker system would probably have bettered. Bryston isn't THX-Certified, and I dare you to say they're not rock-solid... neither is Rotel.
What it means to the manufacturer is paying for their gear to get tested, then a licensing fee/royalty for every piece sold - the end user eventually pays for this added expense somehow. But it still only guarantees that a prototype or test model met some base measurements, and if tolerances are poor and the test model barely passed, what you got may not actually even meet the standard.
Use your ears. If you don't have to TRY to like it, if it's easy to listen to, then it's good. That likely indicates smooth frequency response, minimal distortion - your brain is TELLING you it's good sound. If it's hard to listen to, or if you get tired of listening after a while, that's your brain getting tired of trying to figure out what it's SUPPOSED to sound like after trying to filter out the distortion and whatever else isn't "real" sounding.
Your ears are some of the most discerning test equipment in the world.
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 20:52:03 GMT -5
THX certification(s) are meaningless today. Yes, they started off as something of value, but gradually declined to crap. There are different levels of certification not just for receivers any more but cables, bat crap speakers, et al. Try explaining what each level means in terms of performance. All a manufacturer has to do is submit a model for testing. Once it is certified, no one knows what THX does to make sure that the production units meet the same standard. Most think that they actually do nothing further. The very reason it is kept "secret" Now, do not confuse THX products with their certification. There is much more credibility with their products.
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Post by Topend on Mar 28, 2011 21:22:17 GMT -5
Emotiva doesn't need THX certification to sound good. The UMC-1 already sounds great and I'm sure the XMC-1 will not disappoint in the sound department. THX is unnecessary and an additional expense.
Dave.
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Post by hpc on Mar 28, 2011 21:24:02 GMT -5
THX - thanks (thx) for your money
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 21:25:39 GMT -5
"I'm not sure if you realize that Onkyo/Integra prepros that are THX certified do not have amps in them" I'm not sure that this is a serious statement. It is certainly not logical. Pre/pros do not have power amps. Maybe I'm missing something. However, Onkyo/Integra receivers do carry THX certifications. Certainly this is an oversight on your part. But, should I then assume that you are not familiar with Onkyo/Integra THX products because of this lapse? No, I wouldn't! I'm simply expressing an opinion about THX certification. No need to take personal shots regardless of your level of disagreement. Let us have some fun debating the issue. I say it's crap. What say ye? ;D
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Post by billmac on Mar 28, 2011 21:28:38 GMT -5
THX certification(s) are meaningless today. Yes, they started off as something of value, but gradually declined to crap. There are different levels of certification not just for receivers any more but cables, bat crap speakers, et al. Try explaining what each level means in terms of performance. All a manufacturer has to do is submit a model for testing. Once it is certified, no one knows what THX does to make sure that the production units meet the same standard. Most think that they actually do nothing further. The very reason it is kept "secret" Now, do not confuse THX products with their certification. There is much more credibility with their products. To be honest I do not know what your hangup is with THX but whatever. So what if it is a bunch of BS but your claim that manufacturers use the THX logo to hide substandard build quality is totally unfounded. I will be glad to admit I am wrong if you can offer up some actual proof of that statement . Bill
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iceman66
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Post by iceman66 on Mar 28, 2011 21:33:20 GMT -5
Emotiva doesn't need THX certification to sound good. The UMC-1 already sounds great and I'm sure the XMC-1 will not disappoint in the sound department. THX is unnecessary and an additional expense. Dave. Not equipment related but I lost any faith in THX meaning something after the purchase of Highlander on DVD back in the day, one of the worst DVDs ever for pic and audio quality, but the THX logo on the cover looks nice
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 28, 2011 21:47:22 GMT -5
I get really tired of THX bashing on every single audio-related forum, especially when the bashing is most generally being done by people who really don't understand what it means. Why is there never Dolby bashing, or UL bashing? Why no Energy Star bashing?
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 21:48:59 GMT -5
Read reply #287 for starters. I'm prepare to be just that general as well. Once I start naming products, then there is a new debate of whether or not I'm correct about those products. No need for that.
My hangup is that I believe that it is a ripoff. It simply does not mean what it used to. It is now reduced to marketing hype. As Topend has stated: "Emo products do not need THX certification to sound good" Oh, I apologize if I'm too strong. What is your hangup about chasing me on every subject?
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Post by billmac on Mar 28, 2011 21:55:40 GMT -5
Here is a direct quote from a previous post: I don't feel the same about Onkyo and similar model per month manufacturers which tend to include THX mostly in their more expensive products. I can't see how they meet THX certification when their under powered amplifiers run so hot. But that's just me! That quote is what I commented on. Now is someone supposed to know that you meant AVR or prepro? With your other comments how is one to know. You can assume what you want but I have owned Onkyo AVRs and prepros that were all THX Ultra2 Plus certified. So I have experience with two aspects of this "debate", THX certified products and Onkyo products as well. Do you have any actual experience with either? The point I am making that you seem to be missing completely is you make statements and assumptions without a shred of proof. Then you think it is a personal shot at you when someone questions the claims you make. You are expressing more than opinions when you make these claims. If you said THX certification is worthless then who I am I to disagree with that. But the part about manufacturers sticking the THX logo on a component to hide substandard build quality is total BS. That is a statement of fact not an opinion. Again prove it and I will admit you were right. Well...... Bill
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 22:22:35 GMT -5
Why does a 7 channel THX Select 2 receiver rated at 100W/channel, only measures 87 w/channel with 2 channels driven at 1% Thd, and 30W/channel with all channels driven at 1%ThD. I just got this measurement at an A/V website. To me, this is a substandard power section wearing the THX badge! Oh, and when you put the THX logo on the outside, it guarantees everything on the inside. No? ;D
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Post by billmac on Mar 28, 2011 22:36:21 GMT -5
Why does a 7 channel THX Select 2 receiver rated at 100W/channel, only measures 87 w/channel with 2 channels driven at 1% Thd, and 30W/channel with all channels driven at 1%ThD. I just got this measurement at an A/V website. To me, this is a substandard power section wearing the THX badge! Oh, and when you put the THX logo on the outside, it guarantees everything on the inside. No? ;D There are not many AVRs out there that can actually produce the claimed power rating for all channels driven. You were aware of this right? What specific AVR are these specs from? Do you have a link to that review? Do you know what the THX specs are for all channels driven for a THX Select 2 certification are? Come on man deal with the facts. Who ever said there were any types of guarantees on the inside? Where do you come up with this stuff? Bill
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Mar 28, 2011 22:49:37 GMT -5
It does not matter what many other AVRs out there can actually produce. THX certification, no matter what iteration, should guarantee you performance better than what similar non THX AVRs can do. Why pay more for THX then?
If you know what a 7 channels receiver rated at 100 w/channel with THX Select 2 certification should measure, why not post it and provide your source? Deal with the facts! I'll admit that I don't know the answer. But what I do know is that the measurement denote a receiver with a very poor power section and THX certifies it. Ouch!
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