Lonnie
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Mar 16, 2010 20:31:40 GMT -5
Everyone is getting all upset about Direct Mode and I think it is due to a misunderstanding of what it is. So lets see if I can offer a little light on this. If you send a signal into the UMC (PCM or Bitstream, 2 channel or muti-channel) the processor is setup from the factory to play it in its native format and in this way you can apply EQs, or any other post processing that is allowed for the given input stream. Direct mode is there if you want to bypass all post processing. So yes you can send in whatever signal you want and apply EQs, crossovers, etc. when played in its native format, or if you don't want to apply anything at all to the signal, then you select Direct. I hope this helps to explain.  |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 16, 2010 20:31:52 GMT -5
Still waiting for mine but they do have my money. I'm kind of hoping that I get it before the new SW. I want to see what it thinks of my room. With Emo-Q being more forgiving on the new SW it won't give me the info I want.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 16, 2010 20:35:31 GMT -5
Everyone is getting all upset about Direct Mode and I think it is due to a misunderstanding of what it is. So lets see if I can offer a little light on this. If you send a signal into the UMC (PCM or Bitstream, 2 channel or muti-channel) the processor is setup from the factory to play it in its native format and in this way you can apply EQs, or any other post processing that is allowed for the given input stream. Direct mode is there if you want to bypass all post processing. So yes you can send in whatever signal you want and apply EQs, crossovers, etc. when played in its native format, or if you don't want to apply anything at all to the signal, then you select Direct. I hope this helps to explain. It seems so simple, it does what the name implies. What is all the fuss? |
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Post by jmilton on Mar 16, 2010 20:37:48 GMT -5
Sounds right. I couldn't understand why pEople were saying you couldn't use EmoQ with multichannel...I've been using just fine with SACD. bass mgt. Works great.
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Post by loopinfool on Mar 16, 2010 21:29:27 GMT -5
If you want to use the EQs then just run it in its native format. I see in the ADVANCED PLAYBACK section of the manual these options for "bitstreamed" formats: - DTS has "DTS" as an option
- Dolby DDEX has "Dolby DDEX" as an option
- DTS HD has "DTS HD" as an option
I'm assuming selecting a sound processing format that matches the input format is what you're talking about. I do not see a "MultiPCM" option for MultiPCM sources. Perhaps this is what seems to be missing. Looking at the manual, it appears there's Direct, or DSP-style processing, but no native. - LoopinFool |
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Post by marius on Mar 16, 2010 21:38:51 GMT -5
On my Pioneer Elite receiver, I had Stereo, Straight Stereo, Direct, and Pure Direct. The only mode that bypassed *any processing* was Pure Direct.
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Post by threxx on Mar 16, 2010 21:45:34 GMT -5
If you want to use the EQs then just run it in its native format. I see in the ADVANCED PLAYBACK section of the manual these options for "bitstreamed" formats: - DTS has "DTS" as an option
- Dolby DDEX has "Dolby DDEX" as an option
- DTS HD has "DTS HD" as an option
I'm assuming selecting a sound processing format that matches the input format is what you're talking about. I do not see a "MultiPCM" option for MultiPCM sources. Perhaps this is what seems to be missing. Looking at the manual, it appears there's Direct, or DSP-style processing, but no native. - LoopinFool Yes I was going to ask what Lonnie meant by native but you seem to have summed it up pretty well. For example right now I'm playing Bioshock 2 on PS3. In direct mode I see it says "Multi PCM 48khz L R C..." it lists out all channels, and I'm getting sound from all channels. If I click 'mode' my only other selectable option is "stereo". Well with stereo my EQ works, but my surrounds and center stop playing anything. It's definitely not 'native' since I'm losing all other channels. In similar experiments with Blu-ray movies I do have some other surround mode options instead of just stereo, but none of them are anything close to native... they're all obviously heavily processed and don't sound natural or native in the least. On the bright side I at least confirmed that the crossover points do still work in native mode so I'm not at risk of blowing up my high dollar mid-sized speakers by unwittingly sending them a massive explosion at 25Hz. But then that leaves me wondering why the EQ can't be applied if the crossover is applied. |
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Post by flamingeye on Mar 16, 2010 21:58:53 GMT -5
So once again, it's not Emo's fault for designing a processor with limitations that don't really cater to extremely common scenarios and setups, it's (insert 3rd party manufacturer here)'s fault. In this case Sony? This is a common theme these days. The question really is... is it possible to enable the EQ for direct mode? Or if that's going to screw things up, add some sort of Direct + EQ mode. I think with quite a few of these issues the line is getting blurred between "Not possible" and "We don't think it makes sense to include that feature". As an aside... why is HDMI substandard for sending SACD aside from the fact that in direct mode the UMC won't allow any additional modifications to the sound? My, my feel the anger. Direct has always been a "Direct" path with no post processing which EQs are. If you want to play SACDs, MCPCM or anything else and use the EQs then run it in its native mode or any of the other supported modes for the given input type. Direct was always there to give you the purest path if you want to use it. Thank`s Lonnie I thought that`s what it should do it did not make sens that it would do it any other way |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 16, 2010 22:33:57 GMT -5
[The problem with that is that the older PS3's cannot bitstream the lossless codecs. So for people that use older PS3's they essentially cannot use the UMC to it's fullest because "Direct" is the only way the UMC will handle PCM. That's simply incorrect. "Direct" is ONE way the unit can handle PCM. If you don't own one yet I suggest you download the owners manual from the main Emotiva product page and look it up. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 16, 2010 22:35:43 GMT -5
My, my feel the anger. Direct has always been a "Direct" path with no post processing which EQs are. If you want to play SACDs, MCPCM or anything else and use the EQs then run it in its native mode or any of the other supported modes for the given input type. Direct was always there to give you the purest path if you want to use it. Thank you. |
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Post by atczero on Mar 16, 2010 22:54:46 GMT -5
My, my feel the anger. Direct has always been a "Direct" path with no post processing which EQs are. If you want to play SACDs, MCPCM or anything else and use the EQs then run it in its native mode or any of the other supported modes for the given input type. Direct was always there to give you the purest path if you want to use it. Thank you. There is NO NATIVE MODE for multichannel PCM. You can choose DIRECT and lose eq and bass management, any DSP mode which I have had very few uses ever for, or Dolby PLIIx which may fill in the 6/7 channel of 5.1 input, but what other negative impacts does it have?? The UMC-1 must be able to take a multichannel PCM source and apply bass management and EQ settings ONLY or it is time to look for a new unit. |
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osogovo
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once upon a time in the west
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Post by osogovo on Mar 16, 2010 23:02:51 GMT -5
There is NO NATIVE MODE for multichannel PCM. You can choose DIRECT and lose eq and bass management, any DSP mode which I have had very few uses ever for, or Dolby PLIIx which may fill in the 6/7 channel of 5.1 input, but what other negative impacts does it have?? The UMC-1 must be able to take a multichannel PCM source and apply bass management and EQ settings ONLY or it is time to look for a new unit. +1 |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 16, 2010 23:44:14 GMT -5
So if I understand you right, you want the eq and room correction but want to bypass the dac and or image processor? I've always thought of direct bypass as skipping everything. Is this a standard option on most processors?
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Post by snodog on Mar 16, 2010 23:45:48 GMT -5
I agree and the problem Lonnie is that some things in their native source sound like hell. Not at any fault of the UMC of course, it has great sound quality. I have ran through the DSP modes and didnt care for any of them, dont know why some are even included but hey Im an advocate for multi channel surround because I think its a necessary option in some cases.
It is true though, that any other unit over the past 15 years practically has had the multi channel mode under their own names. I dont think that people are being difficult on something that just seems like a given especially at the cost of several people already saying that they absolutely want it or may not buy.
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Post by Spiky on Mar 17, 2010 0:13:35 GMT -5
So if I understand you right, you want the eq and room correction but want to bypass the dac and or image processor? I've always thought of direct bypass as skipping everything. Is this a standard option on most processors? Definitely. There should be all 3 choices. (1) You bypass everything when the source handles the EQ. This is usually called Direct or Pure Direct. (2) You bypass the DSP when you want the original signal, but want the prepro to handle the EQ. (3) Or it can alter everything. #2 seems to be a spot of contention in this thread, but that is what all discrete Dolby and DTS modes are. (ie: not Pro Logic or Neo) And Stereo, and even All Channel Stereo qualifies as it simply repeats the stereo signal in extra speakers. Bypassing the DAC is not always true anymore. With high-quality multichannel PCM as a recent development, the #2 modes should allow for digital input, as well. See, the EQ is room correction and speaker correction, like moving LFE to the sub. Those are necessary evils that even audiophiles will tolerate. OTOH, DSP modes play with sound, attempting to make it sound like something else, like DPLIIx/z creating extra channels. You have to have these 2 concepts (DSP vs EQ) separate as they have different goals. (I'm assuming this will eventually apply to the XMC, hence my interest) |
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Post by atczero on Mar 17, 2010 2:33:54 GMT -5
Spiky....I agree completely, very clearly defined, thanks.
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Post by Woodpecker on Mar 17, 2010 5:38:02 GMT -5
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Post by threxx on Mar 17, 2010 7:59:56 GMT -5
My, my feel the anger. Direct has always been a "Direct" path with no post processing which EQs are. If you want to play SACDs, MCPCM or anything else and use the EQs then run it in its native mode or any of the other supported modes for the given input type. Direct was always there to give you the purest path if you want to use it. Thank you. Seriously? That's all you have to add?  People are trying to explain (and a variety of examples have been given) that there is no 'native mode' in this situation. It's either direct, or in the scenario I gave above my only other option was 'stereo'. In the cases of blu-ray movies there is no other sound processing mode that sounds anything close to 'direct'... they all alter the signal considerably. And I'm not being picky, the difference is extreme, so obviously nothing 'native' about them. Your passive aggressive nature in this thread is adding more frustration than it is helping, so please answer and don't just swing by Lonnie's coattails with replies like this. |
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Post by huffer on Mar 17, 2010 9:15:59 GMT -5
[The problem with that is that the older PS3's cannot bitstream the lossless codecs. So for people that use older PS3's they essentially cannot use the UMC to it's fullest because "Direct" is the only way the UMC will handle PCM. That's simply incorrect. "Direct" is ONE way the unit can handle PCM. If you don't own one yet I suggest you download the owners manual from the main Emotiva product page and look it up. Can you please answer post #90 then? |
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Post by billmac on Mar 17, 2010 9:26:07 GMT -5
My, my feel the anger. Direct has always been a "Direct" path with no post processing which EQs are. If you want to play SACDs, MCPCM or anything else and use the EQs then run it in its native mode or any of the other supported modes for the given input type. Direct was always there to give you the purest path if you want to use it. Lonnie, I think owners of the UMC-1 have a right to be frustrated with the issues with the UMC-1. I have spent several hours with my UMC-1 trying to get MCH PCM from my Panasonic BD30. I could not get it to work no matter what settings I ultilized. That is frustrating to me as I should be spending that time watching movies or listening to music not trouble shooting the UMC-1. I put my 886 back in my system and I get MCH PCM fine in its native form with the use of Audyssey and bass management options. Going through the options in the menu of the 886 for Multich PCM is an option for Multch which is maybe an option that could be added to the UMC-1. I feel MCH PCM is a format such as DTS-MA and TrueHD. So I feel that owners of the UMC-1 should be able to decode that format and be able to ulitilize all the Emo-Q and bass management options without having to use DD PLII or one of the DSP options. I'm sure someone will say "if you do not like the UMC-1 then return it" which is not what I want to do as I feel the UMC-1 has excellent SQ. But if issues like the one with MCH PCM are not corrected a feature that is on every other AVR/prepro I have owned recently then I will most likely return the UMC-1. Personally I have not gotten angry over this as I feel that this is the way Emotiva decided to configure the UMC-1. Not a big deal but if a number of UMC-1 owners or prespective owners feel the same way then Emotiva might want to consider adding an option to the MCH PCM mode. Bill |
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