|
|
Post by Mr. Ben on Mar 27, 2010 13:34:38 GMT -5
My company designed a temperature controller built around a Cell processor. The software coding was outsourced to India (Tata.) Now, over two years since our planned release (and a year after delivery of the first 100 units to various customers and Beta sites) and after hundreds of hours of back and forth fine tuning the unit's performance and discovering issues in various unpredicted applications, we are on Rev. 12 of the software (and Rev. 3 of the hardware) and we think we MIGHT finally have a product that's ready for the market. We hope we can announce it publicly at Semicon West 2010 - we had originally told our customer base it would be ready for Semicon 2008.  Coding for Cell is hard. You should have hired me instead, although I prefer GPU coding these days ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Brian on Mar 27, 2010 14:00:33 GMT -5
Saying next week is just giving false expectation.
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,095
|
Post by klinemj on Mar 27, 2010 14:09:02 GMT -5
In my work, I typically find it most efficient to complete a single large job vs. break it into bits.
It always seems like there's a bare minimum fixed "investment" to do any job...time & $ for the bare minimum engineering, testing, and implementation of the final result. If a job is a big one, then you have added time/$ above and beyond that minimum in added engineering/testing.
If you break an end goal into bits, you have that minimum to re-do each time. So, if you did 10 small jobs separately, you'd have 10x the minimum. If you combine them all together...it likely won't be 1/10th the total of the separate jobs but it is almost always less.
At least that's my experience...
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by moe on Mar 27, 2010 14:23:08 GMT -5
The whole thing is really simple.I bought a new unit,just released,I thought anyone (including myself)understood that the unit would have issues to be found.I have been an early adoptor and a late comer,early is guaranteed issues,late is most issues that can be fixed have been.If anyone bought this unit and thought it would be bug free or all fixed in a few months,you just need to be more informed on early adoption of electronics.
I understand the reply of "it should all work when released"but that simply seldom happens,even with the best.There are so many different configurations it's just not likely.We all want our UMC to be the best it can be,we just have different ways of expressing that feeling and different expectations of timelines.
As to beta testing.I know it's been discussed plenty,and I agree Emotiva would have been served well by some of the knowledgeable members here.I also think that may have delayed the unit several months,and I would not have one yet,that works great for me now.All things considered it will end up about the same,maybe a very slight edge on PR front for beta,but me personally less happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by billmac on Mar 27, 2010 14:39:59 GMT -5
I'll tell you what my issue is...all of that stuff you just mentioned should of been accomplished before the UMC was released. There should of been a solid FW update procedure already available. Some of the bugs are so apparent that they were easily discovered within 10 minutes of powering on the unit. I find it frustrating that the UMC was released as is..then have to wait 3 months and counting for a fix. moodyman, I agree as well that there should have been a solid FW with the initial release of the UMC-1. This has been discussed quite a bit here but some do not seem to think it is a problem. It amazes me as well that many of the issues were not easily found especially the sub test tone which does not ouput a proper LFE signal on the UMC-1 I have. As far as the speaker settings not being saved I have the same issue. I think some UMC-1 owners might not notice it if their speaker levels are set close to 0. Unless there are multiple versions of the current FW I can not see how some are having issues and others report not having them. Makes me wonder  . Bill |
|
|
|
Post by visiter555 on Mar 27, 2010 18:33:38 GMT -5
I'm not Moodyman but I can tell you that I've been through this sort of evolution many times. Most recently with a much less complex piece of gear than the UMC-1. My company designed a temperature controller built around a Cell processor. The software coding was outsourced to India (Tata.) Now, over two years since our planned release (and a year after delivery of the first 100 units to various customers and Beta sites) and after hundreds of hours of back and forth fine tuning the unit's performance and discovering issues in various unpredicted applications, we are on Rev. 12 of the software (and Rev. 3 of the hardware) and we think we MIGHT finally have a product that's ready for the market. We hope we can announce it publicly at Semicon West 2010 - we had originally told our customer base it would be ready for Semicon 2008. Perhaps this sort of experience (rather than me being some sort of blind fanboy as I'm so often accused of being) is why I am one of those willing to give Emotiva as much slack as is necessary to get the product and the software ready for prime time. dyohn, I have just a little experience in writing code from my BS in Applied Statistics at Florida State University and to be honest that's the last time I've ever wanted to write it, in other words I hated those courses(especially the Numerical Analysis class I barely skated by on). Just curious, Is outsourcing the software side of projects like the one you're involved with pretty common in your line of work? Revision #12? That to me makes the UMC-1 software sound rather tame, and that is not a dig at Emotiva just an observation. I currently manage the code department for a large multi-nationl. I used to be a coder writing the original code/fixes with many, many, many others and now I review and approve the code for initial realese for testing. The first line that we follow is that we have internal QA test the devices in fully functional real world situations. We have many variations of many of our major customers environments. Secondly once it passes this level of testing (and believe me it does not go beyond this stage until QAS signs off as 100% working) the revised firmware goes out to selected test sites in a full production environment with a full report weekly (hourly if there are issues) back to our QAS section who then duplicates the customer environment and retests. Issues come back to my section to recode whereas unable to duplicate items goes back to the customer for 100% confirmation on the environemnt and rechecking the complaint. Go back to step 2 and repeat. Once my Department gets the full description of the situation and the issue caused we recode and go BACK TO STEP 1. We also continue to collect reports from QA and the other beta testers and continue to rewrite. Once we complete Steps 1 & 2 with ZERO issues raised by QA/Customers we freeze the code and announce the product for release and send the product to our outsourced technical writers for final documentation. I have worked for three multi-nationals and all follow the same process. This process must be documented for all steps to get ISO certification. I did not include sending out production run samples to UL/CSA etc prior to selling product 1 until we get our certifications. I know many of my competitors also follow the same ISO/QA processes before one $1 is taken in exchange for a product. I don't know Emotiva's QA process or if they are ISO certified. ISO actuall means nothing except that you have fully documented processes for everything that you do in place. I can not see how these process could be rigorously followed and a product like the UMC-1 released in the state it was sold. Again, this is only my response to your request...no hidden messages behind it. |
|
|
|
Post by moe on Mar 27, 2010 19:45:35 GMT -5
I assume you don't work for Rotel.......as I've owned their products(which I liked)and they were buggy and needed updates the day I bought em',had no manual released when I bought em',they printed one off the internet for me at the dealer.
|
|
|
|
Post by monkeypimp on Mar 27, 2010 21:27:24 GMT -5
I assume you don't work for Rotel.......as I've owned their products(which I liked)and they were buggy and needed updates the day I bought em',had no manual released when I bought em',they printed one off the internet for me at the dealer. Didn't we hear for months that the reason the UMC was delayed was because it was going to be released rock solid? Just a thought. I do agree that bugs should be expected but the people on the lounge that were trying to explain, for Emotiva, why there were delays created a situation where they said it would be rock solid. Emotiva also stated that there wouldn't be a repeat of the LMC launch but yet this seems exactly the same. So while we should know better we were told this wouldn't happen by everyone. |
|
|
|
Post by billmac on Mar 27, 2010 22:03:25 GMT -5
Didn't we hear for months that the reason the UMC was delayed was because it was going to be released rock solid? Just a thought. I do agree that bugs should be expected but the people on the lounge that were trying to explain, for Emotiva, why there were delays created a situation where they said it would be rock solid. Emotiva also stated that there wouldn't be a repeat of the LMC launch but yet this seems exactly the same. So while we should know better we were told this wouldn't happen by everyone. So true. But some do not seem to remember what was said leading up to the release of the UMC-1. I have bought a number of components over the years when first released. Some had some issues some did not. I never buy a component even when it is first released expecting there to be problems. If there are problems then you hope they will be corrected quickly. But to buy a component expecting there to be issues just because it was just released does not show much faith in that company IMO. I did not buy the UMC-1 expecting that there would be as many issues as it has. I actually had faith in Emotiva that the UMC-1 was basically a bug free component and from what the staff at Emotiva conveyed it was supposed to be. But it was not and by the looks of it Emotiva is working hard to correct the known issues. Bill |
|
|
|
Post by visiter555 on Mar 27, 2010 22:25:34 GMT -5
I assume you don't work for Rotel.......as I've owned their products(which I liked)and they were buggy and needed updates the day I bought em',had no manual released when I bought em',they printed one off the internet for me at the dealer. I certainly don't and I was one of the suckers that bought the RSP-1066 with all the bass management (and other issues). Though, to be fair, Rotel did give anyone who asked the upgrade component video board at n/c and it was a simple couple of screws to replace. They also gave me a whopping 40+% discount on a RSX-1560 as compensation for the bass management issues. I work for a way larger non-audio/video corporation. If I worked for Rotel I would certainly have more equipment!!! lol |
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Mar 29, 2010 9:32:29 GMT -5
dyohn, I have just a little experience in writing code from my BS in Applied Statistics at Florida State University and to be honest that's the last time I've ever wanted to write it, in other words I hated those courses(especially the Numerical Analysis class I barely skated by on). Just curious, Is outsourcing the software side of projects like the one you're involved with pretty common in your line of work? Revision #12? That to me makes the UMC-1 software sound rather tame, and that is not a dig at Emotiva just an observation. I currently manage the code department for a large multi-nationl. I used to be a coder writing the original code/fixes with many, many, many others and now I review and approve the code for initial realese for testing. The first line that we follow is that we have internal QA test the devices in fully functional real world situations. We have many variations of many of our major customers environments. Secondly once it passes this level of testing (and believe me it does not go beyond this stage until QAS signs off as 100% working) the revised firmware goes out to selected test sites in a full production environment with a full report weekly (hourly if there are issues) back to our QAS section who then duplicates the customer environment and retests. Issues come back to my section to recode whereas unable to duplicate items goes back to the customer for 100% confirmation on the environemnt and rechecking the complaint. Go back to step 2 and repeat. Once my Department gets the full description of the situation and the issue caused we recode and go BACK TO STEP 1. We also continue to collect reports from QA and the other beta testers and continue to rewrite. Once we complete Steps 1 & 2 with ZERO issues raised by QA/Customers we freeze the code and announce the product for release and send the product to our outsourced technical writers for final documentation. I have worked for three multi-nationals and all follow the same process. This process must be documented for all steps to get ISO certification. I did not include sending out production run samples to UL/CSA etc prior to selling product 1 until we get our certifications. I know many of my competitors also follow the same ISO/QA processes before one $1 is taken in exchange for a product. I don't know Emotiva's QA process or if they are ISO certified. ISO actuall means nothing except that you have fully documented processes for everything that you do in place. I can not see how these process could be rigorously followed and a product like the UMC-1 released in the state it was sold. Again, this is only my response to your request...no hidden messages behind it. Any products currently out in the market that we would know? Any of them audio/video based? |
|
|
|
Post by Stevens on Mar 29, 2010 16:12:53 GMT -5
Still no news or updates on when they'll resume shipping the UMC-1?
This is starting to get to me. I think I need to take a break from here...
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,864
|
Post by LCSeminole on Mar 29, 2010 16:24:20 GMT -5
Still no news or updates on when they'll resume shipping the UMC-1? This is starting to get to me. I think I need to take a break from here... I just received an email from FedEx Ground with a tracking number for delivery on Wednesday of this week. I was however given the option about two weeks ago to wait on a UMC-1 that would have the newest software that hasn't been released yet or receive a UMC-1 with the current software. I chose the one with the current software, mainly because I wanted to replace my LMC-1 yesterday and so I could go through the next software update with everyone that already has one. |
|
|
|
Post by Stevens on Mar 29, 2010 16:28:46 GMT -5
I just received an email from FedEx Ground with a tracking number for delivery on Wednesday of this week. I was however given the option about two weeks ago to wait on a UMC-1 that would have the newest software that hasn't been released yet or receive a UMC-1 with the current software. I chose the one with the current software, mainly because I wanted to replace my LMC-1 yesterday and so I could go through the next software update with everyone that already has one. I received the same e-mail and opted to wait for an updated version, since I'm scared of running into the same kind of upgrade problems several others have reported. Being located overseas, I really want the unit to work well from the outset without me having to fiddle with the programming.  |
|
RSavage
Emo VIPs
My goal is to live forever. So far, so good.
Posts: 674
|
Post by RSavage on Mar 29, 2010 16:53:08 GMT -5
....... so I could go through the next software update with everyone that already has one. I'm really hoping we get to share that experience before too much longer.  R |
|
|
|
Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 29, 2010 17:00:22 GMT -5
I didn't get the email but got one last week telling me they were in customs and should ship soon.  |
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Mar 29, 2010 17:04:06 GMT -5
WHERE..................................................................IS................................................................THE..........................................................FREAKING.............................................................FW............................................UPDATE?!?!?!?!?!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by mlkmgr on Mar 29, 2010 17:08:09 GMT -5
WHERE..................................................................IS................................................................THE..........................................................FREAKING.............................................................FW............................................UPDATE?!?!?!?!?!!! couple of weeks, they are testing to make sure everything works. if it doesn't, it is user error or your room!  |
|
ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by ntrain42 on Mar 29, 2010 17:10:58 GMT -5
WHERE..................................................................IS................................................................THE..........................................................FREAKING.............................................................FW............................................UPDATE?!?!?!?!?!!! couple of weeks, they are testing to make sure everything works. if it doesn't, it is user error or your room! I was told that a couple of weeks ago..........at this point I say, email people like me a beta of the FW update.......Ill take a beta version of the new FW over the present update I have now....... |
|
|
|
Post by Mike Ronesia on Mar 29, 2010 17:24:52 GMT -5
Those be fighting....fish. |
|
.
