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Post by Jane on Mar 26, 2010 23:34:36 GMT -5
I am in the market for a new sub woofer. Honestly i was waiting for emo ultra's. Now that they are there i was comparing Ultra 12 with eD A5s-300 and SVS PB12 NSD. I haven't heard any of these. I currently have a Polk entry level sub woofer that i would like to upgrade. I am pretty sure that any of the 3 above should give me a good improvement. May be there are more than 3 at this price range (HSU etc). But which one ??
I thought emo U12 would emerge as a winner at least on specifications in paper. Between U12 and eD, eD goes down to 19Hz and weighs a lot more than U12 (I am translating weight to better build quality). Same with SVS, they get down to 18 Hz and weighs almost twice as heavy as U12.
I have a upa-5 and i am a believer of emo products. What is that i am missing here? Like power amplifiers, i am just not able to pick emo as the best bang for the buck in subwoofers.
What do others feel?
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Post by roadrunner on Mar 27, 2010 1:44:05 GMT -5
I am in the market for a new sub woofer. Honestly i was waiting for emo ultra's. Now that they are there i was comparing Ultra 12 with eD A5s-300 and SVS PB12 NSD. I haven't heard any of these. I currently have a Polk entry level sub woofer that i would like to upgrade. I am pretty sure that any of the 3 above should give me a good improvement. May be there are more than 3 at this price range (HSU etc). But which one ?? I thought emo U12 would emerge as a winner at least on specifications in paper. Between U12 and eD, eD goes down to 19Hz and weighs a lot more than U12 (I am translating weight to better build quality). Same with SVS, they get down to 18 Hz and weighs almost twice as heavy as U12. I have a upa-5 and i am a believer of emo products. What is that i am missing here? Like power amplifiers, i am just not able to pick emo as the best bang for the buck in subwoofers. What do others feel? Jane Your evaluation based on the weight of the sub woofer does not make sense. The SVS enclosure has nearly triple the volume of the Emotiva U12 but is a little less than twice the weight. If you were to apply the volume to weight ratio to the SVS having the same size enclosure as the U12 it would weigh 24 lbs (vs 38 lbs for the Emo u12). Weight, per se tells you nothing about the quality of the components. The Emotiva and the ED are sealed sub woofers and the SVS is a ported sub. The SVS and the ED have "stamped steal" woofer frames and the Emotiva has a "cast aluminum" woofer frame. The Emotiva, because of the cast aluminum frame is a higher quality component... not to mention aluminum weighs less than steal. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS and ED both offer only RCA connectors, whereas the Emotiva Ulra subs offer both XLR and RCA connectors. The SVS and ED only offer 120V service, whereas the Ultra subs come standard with Universal support for 120V thru 250V -- for international customers. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS amp outputs 325W into 8 Ohms, the Emotiva U12 has 500W into 8 Ohms, the ED has 500W into 4 Ohms (notice it is not showing its output at 8 Ohms. Most digital amps produce twice the power at 4 Ohms as it does at 8 Ohms. To make an apples to apples comparison, the ED would produce about 250 W into 8 Ohms.) Emotiva is the winner here. As can be seen, the Emotiva Ultra sub woofers use higher quality components than the other two subs you are looking at. Stamped steal frames are considered "low-end" and cast aluminum frames are state of the art. Only the Emotiva offers you the option of XLR connectivity and the Emotiva offer far more dynamic power than the other two subs. If you look at the "Quality" areas to compare the three subs, the Emotiva has it in spades; and, where you were expecting the Emotiva to have better specs, it out performs the other two where it counts and it costs less than the other two to boot. The Emotiva also has proprietary para-aramid fiber blended cones (the material used in bullet-proof vests) for unrivaled flexibility and tensile strength. You can now put the Emotiva Utra sub back on the top of your list. The SVS and ED are also good sub woofers. There is no way to know which of the three you will like the sound of without auditioning each in your own listening area... which will not be an easy chore. The compare the Ultra to the SVS model closest in quality you would be looking at the SVS PB12-Plus, which sells for $1199 (vs $500 for the Emotiva U12). The PB12 has a cast aluminum frame and a 525W amp, putting it in the same class as the U12's features. ;D
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 27, 2010 11:28:16 GMT -5
2 x U12s Vs the SVS PB-12+ for the same money (or less)?
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Animo
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Post by Animo on Mar 27, 2010 16:40:19 GMT -5
2 x U12s Vs the SVS PB-12+ for the same money (or less)? 2 eD A5s-300s for the same money or less, also.
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RadTech
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Post by RadTech on Mar 27, 2010 17:00:31 GMT -5
2 x U12s Vs the SVS PB-12+ for the same money (or less)? 2 eD A5s-300s for the same money or less, also. And mine hit pretty hard , take my/neighbors word on it. ;D I will have to listen to a U12 as Roadrunner says to ultimately know. I do know I like two better then one.
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Post by sanjaygolf on Mar 27, 2010 17:53:38 GMT -5
I think the SVS model that you have to compare the Ultra12 to is the SB12-Plus. Both 12", both have similar size enclosures, both have similar amp power and both are sealed. To Jane, I think you should also let us know what your needs are: HT/Music?
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Post by roadrunner on Mar 27, 2010 19:22:01 GMT -5
I think the SVS model that you have to compare the Ultra12 to is the SB12-Plus. Both 12", both have similar size enclosures, both have similar amp power and both are sealed. To Jane, I think you should also let us know what your needs are: HT/Music? I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the SVS SB12-Plus was recently discontinued. I haven't heard anything about what SVS will be replacing that model with. Have you heard what the new model's feature set will be? ...pricing for the new unit?
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Post by sanjaygolf on Mar 27, 2010 19:42:23 GMT -5
Didnt know it was discontinued. According to there site it's going to be replaced by the SB12-NSD. I dont think any other info is available yet though.
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turbo
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Post by turbo on Mar 27, 2010 22:16:59 GMT -5
Didnt know it was discontinued. According to there site it's going to be replaced by the SB12-NSD. I dont think any other info is available yet though. 3 new sealed subs...pricey though they are in the news section, specs and prices
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 28, 2010 9:25:01 GMT -5
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Post by dkjohn on Mar 28, 2010 11:19:52 GMT -5
I am in the market for a new sub woofer. Honestly i was waiting for emo ultra's. Now that they are there i was comparing Ultra 12 with eD A5s-300 and SVS PB12 NSD. I haven't heard any of these. I currently have a Polk entry level sub woofer that i would like to upgrade. I am pretty sure that any of the 3 above should give me a good improvement. May be there are more than 3 at this price range (HSU etc). But which one ?? Since this not the place to argue and I seldom do I will just say as far as sub woofers go and weight of the unit roadrunner some of the comparison's you stated where right and some are dead wrong cheers. I thought emo U12 would emerge as a winner at least on specifications in paper. Between U12 and eD, eD goes down to 19Hz and weighs a lot more than U12 (I am translating weight to better build quality). Same with SVS, they get down to 18 Hz and weighs almost twice as heavy as U12. I have a upa-5 and i am a believer of emo products. What is that i am missing here? Like power amplifiers, i am just not able to pick emo as the best bang for the buck in sub woofers. What do others feel? Jane Your evaluation based on the weight of the sub woofer does not make sense. The SVS enclosure has nearly triple the volume of the Emotiva U12 but is a little less than twice the weight. If you were to apply the volume to weight ratio to the SVS having the same size enclosure as the U12 it would weigh 24 lbs (vs 38 lbs for the Emo u12). Weight, per se tells you nothing about the quality of the components. The Emotiva and the ED are sealed sub woofers and the SVS is a ported sub. The SVS and the ED have "stamped steal" woofer frames and the Emotiva has a "cast aluminum" woofer frame. The Emotiva, because of the cast aluminum frame is a higher quality component... not to mention aluminum weighs less than steal. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS and ED both offer only RCA connectors, whereas the Emotiva Ulra subs offer both XLR and RCA connectors. The SVS and ED only offer 120V service, whereas the Ultra subs come standard with Universal support for 120V thru 250V -- for international customers. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS amp outputs 325W into 8 Ohms, the Emotiva U12 has 500W into 8 Ohms, the ED has 500W into 4 Ohms (notice it is not showing its output at 8 Ohms. Most digital amps produce twice the power at 4 Ohms as it does at 8 Ohms. To make an apples to apples comparison, the ED would produce about 250 W into 8 Ohms.) Emotiva is the winner here. As can be seen, the Emotiva Ultra sub woofers use higher quality components than the other two subs you are looking at. Stamped steal frames are considered "low-end" and cast aluminum frames are state of the art. Only the Emotiva offers you the option of XLR connectivity and the Emotiva offer far more dynamic power than the other two subs. If you look at the "Quality" areas to compare the three subs, the Emotiva has it in spades; and, where you were expecting the Emotiva to have better specs, it out performs the other two where it counts and it costs less than the other two to boot. The Emotiva also has proprietary para-aramid fiber blended cones (the material used in bullet-proof vests) for unrivaled flexibility and tensile strength. You can now put the Emotiva Utra sub back on the top of your list. The SVS and ED are also good sub woofers. There is no way to know which of the three you will like the sound of without auditioning each in your own listening area... which will not be an easy chore. The compare the Ultra to the SVS model closest in quality you would be looking at the SVS PB12-Plus, which sells for $1199 (vs $500 for the Emotiva U12). The PB12 has a cast aluminum frame and a 525W amp, putting it in the same class as the U12's features. ;D
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Post by SticknStones on Mar 28, 2010 16:39:46 GMT -5
I am in the market for a new sub woofer. Honestly i was waiting for emo ultra's. Now that they are there i was comparing Ultra 12 with eD A5s-300 and SVS PB12 NSD. I haven't heard any of these. I currently have a Polk entry level sub woofer that i would like to upgrade. I am pretty sure that any of the 3 above should give me a good improvement. May be there are more than 3 at this price range (HSU etc). But which one ?? I thought emo U12 would emerge as a winner at least on specifications in paper. Between U12 and eD, eD goes down to 19Hz and weighs a lot more than U12 (I am translating weight to better build quality). Same with SVS, they get down to 18 Hz and weighs almost twice as heavy as U12. I have a upa-5 and i am a believer of emo products. What is that i am missing here? Like power amplifiers, i am just not able to pick emo as the best bang for the buck in subwoofers. What do others feel? Jane Your evaluation based on the weight of the sub woofer does not make sense. The SVS enclosure has nearly triple the volume of the Emotiva U12 but is a little less than twice the weight. If you were to apply the volume to weight ratio to the SVS having the same size enclosure as the U12 it would weigh 24 lbs (vs 38 lbs for the Emo u12). Weight, per se tells you nothing about the quality of the components. The Emotiva and the ED are sealed sub woofers and the SVS is a ported sub. The SVS and the ED have "stamped steal" woofer frames and the Emotiva has a "cast aluminum" woofer frame. The Emotiva, because of the cast aluminum frame is a higher quality component... not to mention aluminum weighs less than steal. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS and ED both offer only RCA connectors, whereas the Emotiva Ulra subs offer both XLR and RCA connectors. The SVS and ED only offer 120V service, whereas the Ultra subs come standard with Universal support for 120V thru 250V -- for international customers. Emotiva is the winner here. The SVS amp outputs 325W into 8 Ohms, the Emotiva U12 has 500W into 8 Ohms, the ED has 500W into 4 Ohms (notice it is not showing its output at 8 Ohms. Most digital amps produce twice the power at 4 Ohms as it does at 8 Ohms. To make an apples to apples comparison, the ED would produce about 250 W into 8 Ohms.) Emotiva is the winner here. As can be seen, the Emotiva Ultra sub woofers use higher quality components than the other two subs you are looking at. Stamped steal frames are considered "low-end" and cast aluminum frames are state of the art. Only the Emotiva offers you the option of XLR connectivity and the Emotiva offer far more dynamic power than the other two subs. If you look at the "Quality" areas to compare the three subs, the Emotiva has it in spades; and, where you were expecting the Emotiva to have better specs, it out performs the other two where it counts and it costs less than the other two to boot. The Emotiva also has proprietary para-aramid fiber blended cones (the material used in bullet-proof vests) for unrivaled flexibility and tensile strength. You can now put the Emotiva Utra sub back on the top of your list. The SVS and ED are also good sub woofers. There is no way to know which of the three you will like the sound of without auditioning each in your own listening area... which will not be an easy chore. The compare the Ultra to the SVS model closest in quality you would be looking at the SVS PB12-Plus, which sells for $1199 (vs $500 for the Emotiva U12). The PB12 has a cast aluminum frame and a 525W amp, putting it in the same class as the U12's features. ;D Nice write up!
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 28, 2010 17:13:43 GMT -5
are the kidding with the $2,700 ultra 16? only 18Hz -150Hz ± 6dB
that doesn't seem very low for a 16" diver these days.. as an example; Hsu uls 15 is 15 Hz, 0/-1 dB for half the price rythmik is even less.
This line up is the sealed box type which from what I can see wont play as loud or low as the PB series. It gives you a choice (I guess).
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Post by turbo on Mar 28, 2010 18:13:09 GMT -5
are the kidding with the $2,700 ultra 16? only 18Hz -150Hz ± 6dB
that doesn't seem very low for a 16" diver these days.. as an example; Hsu uls 15 is 15 Hz, 0/-1 dB for half the price rythmik is even less.
This line up is the sealed box type which from what I can see wont play as loud or low as the PB series. It gives you a choice (I guess). Yea I know that's why I was comparing them to other sealed designs that have better specs for 1/2 the price... ? who knows
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Post by Porscheguy on Mar 28, 2010 18:24:54 GMT -5
This line up is the sealed box type which from what I can see wont play as loud or low as the PB series. It gives you a choice (I guess). Yea I know that's why I was comparing them to other sealed designs that have better specs for 1/2 the price... ? who knows Good point. But there are a lot of other subs out there that are even more $$$ that don't deliver the goods. I've seen some that are 5K-6K. I'll never spend anything even close to that on a sub. I think SVS has carved out a very good rep for itself, a lot of great reviews, made in the USA and so forth. Maybe they think its time to "ring the cash register"....
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Post by Jane on Mar 28, 2010 22:56:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the write-up roadrunner. makes sense now
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vital
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Post by vital on Apr 1, 2010 15:18:10 GMT -5
are the kidding with the $2,700 ultra 16? only 18Hz -150Hz ± 6dB
that doesn't seem very low for a 16" diver these days.. as an example; Hsu uls 15 is 15 Hz, 0/-1 dB for half the price rythmik is even less.
The SVS Ultra 16 will slaughter anything HSU makes. The reason they are offering sealed subs is because sealed sounds so much better esp for music. The SVS 16 hitting 18 hz as a sealed sub is awesome and it will probably do it at 115dbs! SVS are some of the best subs you can buy, HSU is not exactly a slouch but they are not in SVS's league. As a matter of fact the SVS PB12 ultra was one of the best subs out at any cost. Only subs besting it and "and not by much I might add" were the Epic Conquest and ED top of the line and they were both HUGE compared to the SVS. The SVS 16 looks awesome to me. I bet it's one of the best sounding subs you can buy when it comes out.
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 1, 2010 15:45:08 GMT -5
are the kidding with the $2,700 ultra 16? only 18Hz -150Hz ± 6dB
that doesn't seem very low for a 16" diver these days.. as an example; Hsu uls 15 is 15 Hz, 0/-1 dB for half the price rythmik is even less.
The SVS Ultra 16 will slaughter anything HSU makes. The reason they are offering sealed subs is because sealed sounds so much better esp for music. The SVS 16 hitting 18 hz as a sealed sub is awesome and it will probably do it at 115dbs! SVS are some of the best subs you can buy, HSU is not exactly a slouch but they are not in SVS's league. As a matter of fact the SVS PB12 ultra was one of the best subs out at any cost. Only subs besting it and "and not by much I might add" were the Epic Conquest and ED top of the line and they were both HUGE compared to the SVS. The SVS 16 looks awesome to me. I bet it's one of the best sounding subs you can buy when it comes out. Well let's just hear what Ntrain42 has to say about that. ;D And I know this is just going to cause trouble but I really doubt that the SVS will "slaughter" anything Hsu makes. Their ULS-15 is no slouch, going down to 15 hz..
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Post by brax on Apr 1, 2010 16:36:04 GMT -5
[quote author=roadrunner board=subwoofeers thread=10500 Most digital amps produce twice the power at 4 Ohms as it does at 8 Ohms. To make an apples to apples comparison, the ED would produce about 250 W into 8 Ohms.) Emotiva is the winner here. [/quote]
The only Emo amps that do this are the mono blocks, all other do not double the output when the load is cut in half. I believe this has to do with the size of the power supply.
IF the SVS or ED drivers are more efficient, they will need less power for the same output. It's the total design of the sub just not piece meal specs. You cannot compare these subs on paper. The best way is to test their in room response. Most of the time, that is difficult to have two, three or four subs in your possession at one time. The next best comparison is to model the subs in such software as WinISD. This is also very difficult for commercial subs because manufacturers don’t publish all the T/S parameters of their drivers. The most realistc way to judge these different subs is to compare the output from others who have actually tested them. A good indication of a subs ability is it's given output at a given frequency. Compare the output in dbs at 30hz, 25hz, 20,hz and 15hz. This is where most sub's output starts to fall off.
Adding a second sub dies not double the in room response. The rule of thumb is a second sub will add 3db to the output.
As far as the driver itself, I would be more concerned with the motor design and strength, the spider and the surround. These are what really separate the men from the boys in driver design. As long as the basket is strong enough to handle the forces generated by the driver, the material doesn’t matter.
There is also pros and cons to sealed verus ported or passive radiator subs. This is worth looking into for your wants and needs.
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