Animo
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Gotta Love Me!!
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Post by Animo on May 8, 2010 21:48:04 GMT -5
last night I watched a prerecorded show(a rerun actually from the discovery channel I believe) showing the effects of differing perceptions to our eyes and other senses in real time and with an ultra fast frame rate video camera to slow down simple things we see in our lives. One was water dropping into a pool, drop by drop(showing the drops actually "bouncing"), and another also showed a drummer and the effects of his stick hitting cymbals and percussion skins. Showing how far a cymbal bent and distorted was pretty impressive, as a side note it was mentioned that the frequency range of a cymbal starts in the subsonic frequency range(Below 20hz) and extends out to the ultrasonic range(Above 20khz)from the harmonics.............hmmmmm........ I watch that Discovery series quite often and saw this particular episode. I was quite impressed with the amount of deflection on the drumskins and cymbals. However, the Freq range of a cymbal depends on many factors, including, but not limited to, it's design, it's size, materials and resonant frequency.
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
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Post by ntrain42 on May 8, 2010 22:19:32 GMT -5
last night I watched a prerecorded show(a rerun actually from the discovery channel I believe) showing the effects of differing perceptions to our eyes and other senses in real time and with an ultra fast frame rate video camera to slow down simple things we see in our lives. One was water dropping into a pool, drop by drop(showing the drops actually "bouncing"), and another also showed a drummer and the effects of his stick hitting cymbals and percussion skins. Showing how far a cymbal bent and distorted was pretty impressive, as a side note it was mentioned that the frequency range of a cymbal starts in the subsonic frequency range(Below 20hz) and extends out to the ultrasonic range(Above 20khz)from the harmonics.............hmmmmm........ I watch that Discovery series quite often and saw this particular episode. I was quite impressed with the amount of deflection on the drumskins and cymbals. However, the Freq range of a cymbal depends on many factors, including, but not limited to, it's design, it's size, materials and resonant frequency. Of course, but the whole point was the initial impact of a cymbol crash goes into the sub/subsonic range for a brief instant upon impact. Obviously the nominal sustained frequency response is going to be based on the factors you stated. I made a statement on an older thread that your subwoofers can actually play significant information for instruments where the majority of their frequency response is located in the treble range, and I was told this was pure BS.............
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on May 9, 2010 1:52:29 GMT -5
A good sub should reproduce that first impact of that cymbal.
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Post by ottaone on May 10, 2010 21:29:24 GMT -5
I don't think anyone here is saying that Rhythmik is a bad or poor quality sub, to the contrary. Most, including myself think its a fine product, but there are other subs that certainly are on the same tier and we know which those are. This has more to do with the zeal in which some try to promote their viewpoint and their favorite product, no matter what the facts (whether real or imagined) might be. To say that the Rhythmik is "the only one to get if you like music" or " ported subs are no good" just because you think you don't like ported subs is absurd. Why can't people just agree to dissagree? porscheguy, which subs should I consider for US$1,000 or two $1,000? I know that there's a posting on sub-2K and I've read some of the posts. Ok folks, OP back on line. Thanks for the different opinions on this matter. My reasoning was that Emotiva will not spend precious resources to produce a product that does not represent an excellent value to, well, valuephiles like many in this forum. Sure, the company is trying to expand it's product line and some products will be better value than others. But if I were Emo, I would not sell a gallon of milk as a loss header just so I could get folks to buy higher margin products like, maybe, pop or bread. Or am I too smitten now by the brand that I can't recognize a dud sub even when it hits me with distortion at 20hz? Gotta decide soon as the Canadian dollar just went up about 1.4 cents today. ;D
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Post by fantom on May 10, 2010 22:12:48 GMT -5
Just showed up to this thread. Lot to wade through. There was a question of frequencies on a blu-ray, dvd, or cd. There is no inherent limit to low-end frequency response. The high end is limited by the Nyquist frequency, which essentially says that the highest frequency that can be reproduced is less than half of the sampling frequency (<22.05khz for CD, < 24khz for most DVD and Blu-Ray). On the low-end, less than 1hz could be stored digitally without any problem. CDs, uncompressed audio, and lossless compression will certainly be able to store and reproduce these signals. As far as I know, I THINK lossy Dolby and DTS produce sub 20hz, but I'm not sure. This is because they use various techniques to PERCEPTUALLY preserve audio quality. Depending on the bitrate, Dolby may limit upper frequencies to 15khz or 18khz (384, 448 data rates). Dolby will also combine channels at higher frequencies where it is more difficult for humans to localize the sound. I cannot find anything about cutting off extremely low frequencies, but I could certainly see once again combining channels. Before owning my Rythmik F15 (see, I'm not completely off topic) I had a HSU VTF-3 MK3. It claimed down to 18hz. All HSU subs come with a bass test CD. Aside from usual test tones, it includes actual music with low frequency information. The first has organ pedals down to 16.5hz. The VTF-3 Mk3 was great at producing a lot of port noise on these notes at any significant volume Other musical tracks on the CD have less pronounced low frequency bass, but it is there. As has been stated, many instruments (or room acoustics for that matter) produce very low harmonics. Again, many of these were less than impressive with the HSU. I then upgraded to the Rhythmik F15 (model with parametric EQ, which turned out to be a life-saver in my room). The Rhythmik has settings on the back for adjusting the bass extension (adjusting Q). It can play a bit louder on the low end if limited to 25hz, but with less accuracy and higher distortion. I always leave it set to 14hz extension with high damping. This allows for the most accurate reproduction of bass for music, and it still plays loud enough to rattle my neighbors' rooms at 16hz. By the way, all of the HSU bass test CD music selections sound quite impressive with the F15. In a larger room, I could see wanting more power for such extreme music (and perhaps the toughest of movie scenes, though that class A/B amp is quite solid). In a large enough room, I might opt for more than one F15 (or their new 600watt amp F15). As far as output, the cabinet of the F15 is smaller in volume than the ported HSU VTF-3 Mk3. The HSU claims 350 watts RMS (BASH amp, which is class D like the Emo). Many subs use Class D amps because they are extremely efficient and most of their harmonic distortion issues are at higher frequencies that subs don't reproduce. However, on a few tough movie passages, I did find where the HSU amp clipped (and was not all that clean just before clipping). I then later tested those same passages with the F15, which is a 370watt A/B. I was able to get about 4 dB louder before the protection circuit kicked in. Just before going into protection, everything still sounded extremely clean (thanks to the direct servo technology). Sure, all things are not equal here. The Rhythmik is 15" vs. the 12" HSU. But the HSU is larger and ported. I'm not sure which weighs more heavily, but if all things were equal, 4dB more output should require 2.5x as much power. Oh, and I found a 50hz hump in my room that the parametric EQ on the F15 solved handily. My receiver's graphic EQ only had 40 and 63 hz bands around there. 40hz is about 3dB high, 50hz was around 9dB high, and 63hz was around 2dB low. Without the help of the dialed in parametric EQ on the sub, Audyssey always set my sub up about 5dB too low because it just wasn't able to figure it out. There are not many reviews yet of the Emo subs, and I'm sure they are a phenomenal value for $500. But I know for a fact that the Rythmik F15PEQ is a phenomenal value for $900 (built).
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Pauly
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Post by Pauly on May 10, 2010 22:49:54 GMT -5
You just made ntrain's day lol.
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