Denon AVR-4311CI with Audyssey MultEQ XT32.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2010 17:04:40 GMT -5 icehawk21 said:

I need some help and thought the fine folks at Emotive Lounge could help.

I'm in Canada and looking to buy the Denon 4311. It is now available locally (in Canada) for $2200 CDN MSRP vs. $2000 US MSRP. I can purchase one from a US retailer who's willing to sell and ship to Canada for $1500 plus shipping - so probably around $1600 CDN after factoring in shipping and exchange. They don't have it in stock so I'd have to wait plus I might get charged around 6% for duty charges (which, according to NAFTA, should be 0%). Plus, the 1 year manufacturer warranty would be voided.

Or I can buy it locally for $1900 CDN (all-in, no shipping required). The 1 year warranty would still be valid and I can pick it up immediately as they have it in stock.

What do you guys think? Should I save myself $300 and order from the US or purchase locally? I don't think I can get them below $1900 since they've still got quite a bit of old stock (Denon 4310s) that they are trying to sell and they don't want to provide too much of an incentive to buy this year's model over the older discounted model.

Help!

Bryan

Man take it from a fellow CDN, you'll have to pay taxes on that stuff to (about $225). buy it locally for the $1900 and be done with it. you will save maybe $120-150 buying it from the states but you'll lose the warranty, kinda makes it a no brainer IMO.

I bought my Denon 3311 from audiogon but paid less than half of what the CDN rate was. After it was all said and done (taxes blah blah) I saved over $500 vs buying it locally. No warranty but who cares at that price!!! LOL

[NorthStar]

Jan 27, 2011 17:32:11 GMT -5 alaskaaudiophile said:

I just read through your post for the first time today....I wish I had earlier because IMO I believe you made an uninformed decision.

Talking about the new Onkyo PA-MC5500 Amplifier
because you were saying that it put out 150Wx9ch
well that's absolutely wrong....if you look closer on their specs
it reads ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN 150W but then look underneath
where they completely back track and say "Two Channels Driven, FTC"
That tells you Everything you need to know...their all B.S numbers man!

Take for example my receiver an ONKYO TX-SR875 it was rated at 140Wx7ch
but said the same thing "Two Channels Driven, FTC" and after researching heres what i found. SoundandVisionMag did a full Bench test.

Results were 128WPC with ALL-Channels driven...a 12WPC loss
and compared to other receivers it lost the least, some loosing considerably
more.

Link: www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver

So REALLY REALLY pay close attention to those specs...they say one thing and they mean the complete opposite. Remind you of anybody LOL.
Just my two-cents.

Take care everybody!

Thanks for the info mate!

But most people here are already pretty much aware of those.

By the way, your 875 do really put out a lot of power for a receiver! Those Onkyos from the XX5 series were really somethin'! {Still have my 876, and gave my 805 to my brother on his last birthday.}

And welcome to the Lounge!

Cheers,
Bob

[alaskaaudiophile]

Ya thats true those ONKYO's are great which is why i'm not in a Huge rush to replace it. But it does get hot, and i'd really like to prolong its life. The XPA-3 i purchased to run the front-3 took the heat down to the touch considerably. And the Onkyo did gain almost 20WPC now that the receiver only has to push the 4-surr channels...always a Plus!

Thanks for the Welcome

[NorthStar]

Jan 28, 2011 15:05:12 GMT -5 alaskaaudiophile said:

Ya thats true those ONKYO's are great which is why i'm not in a Huge rush to replace it. But it does get hot, and i'd really like to prolong its life. The XPA-3 i purchased to run the front-3 took the heat down to the touch considerably. And the Onkyo did gain almost 20WPC now that the receiver only has to push the 4-surr channels...always a Plus!

Thanks for the Welcome

* Tips to have your 875 running cool:

1. Disable the Control ("Power Control" and "TV Control"); page 99-100 in your manual.
2. Set the HDMI Monitor Resolution to "Through"; page 46-47 in your manual.
3. Install a small fan (120mm or so) on the top right rear corner, above the area where the video processor is situated.
{And plug it into the AC Inlet of your 875 receiver, so it turns On/Off in tandem with the Power switch of your receiver.}

Like this:


___________________________

* For better picture:

=> Turn the Immediate Display "Off"; page 97 in your manual.

_____________________

- Does your 875 receiver has the latest Video Firmware update for its Reon HQV video processor (Firmware version 1.04 or higher)?

- Do you also have the DSP firmware upgrade for the "DTS bomb"?

_____________________

There is a review by Doug Blackburn from Widescreen Review; did you read it?
{I'm having a real tough time to locate it!!!}
EDIT: Well what do you know! They removed the pdf file!
...Still have it saved in my computer, but it's goin' nowhere!

Here's two more reviews:
1. @ ultimateavmag.com/avreceivers/907onk875/

2. @ hometheater.about.com/od/avreceiversreviews/gr/OnkyoTXSR875s.htm

___________________

Luv the Gold version!

@ www.ch.onkyo.com/files.download/tx-sr875_ex.pdf

___________________

The Denon AVR-4311CI Receiver seems to have now resolved the "Blue Rain" isssue, after earlier resolving the "Audio Drop Outs" issue!

- The only thing remaining (it seems) is the high frequencies boost by Audyssey! But it is more accentuated for some owners than others. And few people are complaining of a "Harsh" sound!
{I don't think this is a real issue though; perhaps some very few defective mics, but this has to be confirmed.}

- Oh, and the Apple iPod implementation, which few people aren't impressed at all for $50! But it is what it is and what it was designed for!

~ And what is it with the price now? ...Even before it was released you could put an order for $1,500 (from the $2,000 MSRP). But now it seems that the price went up by quite a bit!
Oh well, the times they are a changin'!

[alaskaaudiophile]

Thanks for the Tip LordOfTheRingsEE,

I already had those options set up but the fan idea is something i haven't tried. Though luckily i have an open air setup with plenty of breathing room and now with the XPA-3 in the mix the stress along with the heat has been greatly reduced. But thank you very much, i gotta say its nice getting to talk with people who actually know what the hec their talking about here....unlike some of the mindless salesmen we have to endure from time to time. Thank god for the internet and companies who use them such as Emotiva huh!

Good info bro...take care

[NorthStar]

If you want to reduce the heat even further;
Set the Speaker Impedance setting to "4 Ohms"; page 45 in your manual.

* Because you are running your three front mains with the XPA-3, it won't affect the performance of your four surrounds!

~ Now with all of this, your 875 is running cooler or as cool as any other receivers!
And as a matter of fact, many receivers from Yamaha, Denon, NAD, Rotel and Arcam are running much warmer, even quite hot for some Yamaha and Rotel models! And some older Denon receivers are dangerously hot right over their entire top!

I know; if I didn't own them personally, my audio dealers did!

[Deleted]

I Really don't understand why you have to put a stupid fan on a receiver. I lik eOnkyo but thats a terrible design if they have that many problems. My old 805 got so hot one day, it's partially melted stickers that were on the front face plate lol.

[alaskaaudiophile]

N8DOGG,

The Onkyo TX-SR805 rated at 130Wx7ch really only outputs 87WPC at clipping. check here:
www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html
The ONKYO TX-SR875 rated at 140Wx7ch really only output 128WPC at
clipping.
www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver

So as you can see 875 outputting an extra 41WPC - 287Watts overall make quiet a bit MORE HEAT. Hence the Extra Fan LordOfTheRingsEE is suggesting, and since we are all control freaks on here we like our equipment to run as close to perfection as possible.
You'll find theirs always trade-offs your gonna have to make for different products, and the more you research them the more problems you might find you wanna fix.

Take Care I hope that helped explain the fan question...

[Deleted]

Jan 30, 2011 17:40:09 GMT -5 alaskaaudiophile said:

N8DOGG,

The Onkyo TX-SR805 rated at 130Wx7ch really only outputs 87WPC at clipping. check here:
www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html
The ONKYO TX-SR875 rated at 140Wx7ch really only output 128WPC at
clipping.
www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver

So as you can see 875 outputting an extra 41WPC - 287Watts overall make quiet a bit MORE HEAT. Hence the Extra Fan LordOfTheRingsEE is suggesting, and since we are all control freaks on here we like our equipment to run as close to perfection as possible.
You'll find theirs always trade-offs your gonna have to make for different products, and the more you research them the more problems you might find you wanna fix.

Take Care I hope that helped explain the fan question...

No the problem is the design, it has nothing to do with how much power it's putting out. I have amps that will put out 3 or 4 times the power of any receiver and they don't get even warm and thats pushing huge subs to their limits but thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying thats it's dumb to have to worry about your receiver enough to have to install a fan to cool it down. I'm not knocking Onkyo as a great and probably one of the better makers out there but they have to step up and re-design their receivers to account for the problem that pretty much everyone seems to have.

Hell even my 607 I have now gets so hot you can't touch it and it's completly open in an open rack. My denon 3311 barly gets warm. So that would mean the 607 is piutting out more power than the 3311? nope different designs.

[alaskaaudiophile]

Well i never said more heat meant more power, its just lost power as we all know. As for being dumb, ya sure it is i agree with you there. But seeings how the whole Onkyo line-up uses pretty much the exact same design layout on their chassis as a cost savings. When you put a bigger engine under the same hood your gonna need to add extra fans. Which your right Onkyo should have done from the very start, but since they didn't we might need to ourselves. All i'm saying is Companys cut corners where they can and we all know it. But compare another receiver for it's time and the 875 was the king for it's price range vs technology. A def bang-for-buck even with it's reputation for running hott. Sounds like an excellent fix to me if all i had pushing my speakers were a receiver and wanted to cool it down. Anyways no hard feelings have a good day bro...

Take care

[Deleted]

I wish Onkyo would just make their stuff a little nicer looking, though I do understand that's what integra is for. I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a 5008 to try out though.

[NorthStar]

Jan 30, 2011 13:45:37 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

I Really don't understand why you have to put a stupid fan on a receiver. I lik eOnkyo but thats a terrible design if they have that many problems. My old 805 got so hot one day, it's partially melted stickers that were on the front face plate lol.

Agreed! ...Also some people have their HDMI plugs melted!

* But it is the fault of Onkyo's not being careful enough for the digital HDMI Video/Audio board!

** That's why it is better bypassing the Video all together (Through).
- And the CEC feature as well (Power Control & TV Control).

------------------

Receivers and pre/pros are computers now, and they do need cooling systems (fans or heatsinks) for their video and audio processor DSP chips!

But you can easily install your own heatsinks over the top of the hottest chips! ...Very easy and cheap to do.

My 805 that I had before was not running any warmer than my Denon or Yamaha or Pioneer receivers!
And neither my 876! And neither my 886!

You've got to know, and act appropriately!

...And that's only one of the reason why I'm here: to share my knowledge and experience...

[NorthStar]

Jan 30, 2011 17:40:09 GMT -5 alaskaaudiophile said:

N8DOGG,

The Onkyo TX-SR805 rated at 130Wx7ch really only outputs 87WPC at clipping. check here:
www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html
The ONKYO TX-SR875 rated at 140Wx7ch really only output 128WPC at
clipping.
www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver

Take Care I hope that helped explain the fan question...

True, but that's with the Speaker Impedance set to the 4 Ohms selection!
...And it does indeed reduce the heat, the power consumption, and also it recuperates much quicker from voltage shortage in situations of clipping! ...As opposed to drained current!

And from Home Theater Lab Tests, the 805 produces 327.6 watts into 4 Ohms, with two channels continuously driven (for 0.1% THD, and at 1 Khz).
Into 8 Ohms, with seven channels driven continuously (0.1% THD, and at 1 Khz), it was delivering 120.4 watts (RMS).
At 1% THD, it delivered 151.7 watts!
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/bampw-600-series-speaker-system-and-onkyo-tx-sr805-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures-onkyo-tx-sr8

No doubt about it, the 805, 875 & 905 were avove all other receivers in their price range (MSRP)!
At street prices, they were a grand theft steal!

* Now with several receivers having 9 internal power amps (Denon, Onkyo/Integra, Yamaha), a power limiter is implemented.
Even some (actually many) 7-channel receivers have a power limiter!
But then, those are not used in high end Home Theater rooms either! Very seldom you would notice a lack of dynamics!
...Until........ you switch over to some Emotiva amps!

_________________________

Still though, it amazes me to see the results of excellent overall power from receivers by Pioneer that cost only $500 and weight less than 25 pounds! ...And some Marantz and Denon receivers as well that weight just over 30 pounds!

Look at the power figures of those Pioneer Elite ICE receivers!
The SC-09TX for example!
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-09tx-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

But even the SC-05! And all the others powered by ICE!
And their sound quality is getting better and better each year!
SC-25 & SC-27, SC-35 & SC-37...

For normal size living room, can't ask any better than that!
For larger and dedicated HT rooms; then Emotiva amps come to the rescue!

-----------------------------

Recipe for a good amp design:

1. Large power transformer (EI core or toroidal).
2. Large number of matching high current power transistors.
3. Large suface area from quality heatsinks (solid aluminum).
4. Large wire gauge used all around.
5. Several caps totalling large microfarads capacitance.
6. Quality circuit boards with quality parts all around.
7. Quality materials used thorougfully.
8. Thick and solid metal or aluminum face plate.
9. Solid chassis (top, sides, bottom) with no ringing and rubber absorbers at strategic points.
10. WBT speaker posts and hexagon screwed and secured RCA jacks, as well solid XLR jacks.

...More? ...GOLD?