ratmice
Emo VIPs 
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Posts: 1,853
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Post by ratmice on Dec 3, 2010 11:05:36 GMT -5
Isn't 16/48 the limitation for USB in general - hence the need for a third party driver? I'm not sure what you mean by this, if that were true how would any of the USB products be able to offer 24/96 up to 32/384 rates? Posted while the other posts were being posted  p.s. this is why having the input bit/sample rate should be implemented in the DAC. Can we get this via FW? |
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Post by roadrunner on Dec 3, 2010 11:50:46 GMT -5
Eric stated that it should automatically find the driver and do 24/192. He did mention something about a driver from VOX. Unfortunately I just deleted his email a couple of days ago - my bad. When I talked to Eric a few weeks ago he said that the XDA-1 will process whatever is sent via USB at the rate that it was sent. The XDA-1 does not up-sample, down-sample or otherwise decode the signal sent to it, up to 24/192. At the time, I was only confirming that it did process 24/96 thru 24/192 music files. He said that it required nothing special from the user other than having an appropriate application program running on your PC, that the XDA-1 would automatically load the USB driver when it was connected to the Internet. I believe Eric said that he had tested it on foobar and media monkey and that both played 24/192 files without problems. I did not think to ask Eric what the name and URL was for the driver that automatically downloaded from the Internet. I had hoped that information would be in the User's Manual... if one is forthcoming. |
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Post by mmeysarosh on Dec 3, 2010 15:16:31 GMT -5
Not quite. The USB Class 1 device can support up to 24/96 devices but the actual result in practice depends on the USB chip used. In OS X, whatever the MIDI output settings for the device is set to will be resolution OS X will upscale or downscale to. In the XDA-1, that will be either 16/44 or 16/48. If you play a 24 bit FLAC file, it will be truncated by OS X to either of those rates, depending on what you have configured in OS X.
I still have to do some research on windows. But I feel that the result wouldn't be that far off.
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Post by mmeysarosh on Dec 3, 2010 15:25:40 GMT -5
I took a look at the Windows driver info and I found following. Windows will do either an up or down sample of the audio to output device when using shared device mode. If you permit exclusive mode and the media player software used supports WASAPI for USB Audio devices that are Async, then the application can send out the data without any sampling changes done by Windows. This applies for Vista on up and XP uses a different stack.
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Post by oscartheclimber on Dec 3, 2010 15:33:44 GMT -5
Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I understand Windows does not yet support USB audio class 2.0 (note USB audio class 2 as opposed to USB class 2)
24/192 is only supported in USB audio class 2.
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Post by mmeysarosh on Dec 3, 2010 15:42:59 GMT -5
That is correct. But Class 1 devices can support 24/96. Depending on the implementation.
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Post by mmeysarosh on Dec 3, 2010 16:37:09 GMT -5
This could be a boon for OS X users. sbooth.org/AyreWave/#maxIt takes over the audio device via HOG mode and allows the data to be sent without Core Audio mucking it around. |
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Post by iwf on Dec 4, 2010 10:20:16 GMT -5
My XPA doesnt arrive until next week, but I'm a bit nervous about the USB implementation. Emotive have s very serious product here, which could help them into the growing pc music world. But if they've messed up the USB they aren't going to get very far.
Can't wait until someone confirms on any platform that any thing above 16/44 works through USB.
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Post by sharkman on Dec 4, 2010 18:39:46 GMT -5
I just got the XDA and would like to use the USB to connect my ipod but the USB jack does not accept it, apparently it is something called a media bridge or high speed usb 2.0 jack. Does anyone know if one can get a cable/adapter for Ipod products?
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Post by sharkman on Dec 4, 2010 19:02:11 GMT -5
Wow, thanks, looks like I need to spend some more $$$! The Wadia is almost 400 on Amazon.
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 4, 2010 19:46:41 GMT -5
For those who have been wanting to know... I just downloaded a file that is 24/192 FLAC and it played with the generic USB driver.
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Post by oscartheclimber on Dec 4, 2010 20:33:54 GMT -5
For those who have been wanting to know... I just downloaded a file that is 24/192 FLAC and it played with the generic USB driver. Awesome - that is the news I have been waiting for. Thanks |
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 4, 2010 21:16:58 GMT -5
For those who have been wanting to know... I just downloaded a file that is 24/192 FLAC and it played with the generic USB driver. Many USB receiver chips will play higher resolution files but will downsample them internally to 16/44.1 or 16/48. Some of the Tenor and Cypress USB chips can play 24/96 without downsampling. Maybe someone can report on which USB chip is used. If it's a Burr Brown PCM2702 for example, then it is downsampling to 16/44.1 or 16/48. Steve foobar2000 doesn't state the bit rate that it is playing at, but it does show it is playing 192kHz Also, I have the same version of foobar2000 on another computer running to a different USB DAC that would not play this file. The XDA-1 did play it so I figure that is some sort of validation of its capabilities. |
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edrummereasye
Sensei
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Posts: 438
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Post by edrummereasye on Dec 4, 2010 22:27:20 GMT -5
For those who have been wanting to know... I just downloaded a file that is 24/192 FLAC and it played with the generic USB driver. Nice!!! Is that with Windows 7? Honestly, I don't know that it's a dealbreaker even if the USB was limited - there are other ways of getting audio out of a PC...some of which the XPA-1 even supports! ;D |
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 4, 2010 22:44:47 GMT -5
For those who have been wanting to know... I just downloaded a file that is 24/192 FLAC and it played with the generic USB driver. Nice!!! Is that with Windows 7? Honestly, I don't know that it's a dealbreaker even if the USB was limited - there are other ways of getting audio out of a PC...some of which the XPA-1 even supports! ;D It is actually with Windows XP. I probably should have mentioned that. The computer that it did not play on has Windows Vista. I actually just tried it again and got it to work with using DirectSound. Originally I tried it with WASAPI when it did not play. The Windows XP machine is using DS right now. I think I need to uninstall the sound card and get ASIO4ALL settings back to the USB driver and try the 24/192. I will report back about it when I get a chance. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Dec 5, 2010 0:24:16 GMT -5
ok well Linux doesn't see any USB device, and the Intel S/PDIF output drops audio often after every song until the next song....this could just be the S/PDIF playing up but it worked fine into the UMC and also my Maverick Tube Magic D1 DAC too, as did the USB output to the Maverick...
will try the mac and maybe a windoze box sometime soon
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Post by xyz1 on Dec 5, 2010 0:28:58 GMT -5
I had problems getting the XDA-1 to output sound from my computer (Windows 7) using USB connection. It saw the device, but did not output any sound. I changed the output device to Speakers USB PNP sound device no dice. So after some searching with google, I downloaded C-Media's drivers & low and behold, I got sound thru the USB connection. The driver file name is C Media v.7.12.8.2144 So I just wanted to share that information, it might help someone. And yes the sample rate goes to 24 bit 96k hz  |
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Post by irishsammy on Dec 5, 2010 0:34:40 GMT -5
I could be completely wrong but I've always read (can't remember where) that there is no formal limitation (when it comes to these bitrates and such, anyway) on USB data transfer (in 2.0) and that the main limitation is whatever USB receiver chip is in place in the receiving DAC. So as long as the DAC receiver chip can do 192/24, a USB 2.0 output should have no problem going that high. And it sounds like the XDA is capable of receiving that kind of rate. And a USB output is just a stream of digital information so drivers shouldn't be an issue. The necessity for a driver is just to enable digital streaming of music files across that connection. The data contained in a high-rez file is all there already...you just have to have that driver in place that allows the DAC and the PC to "talk" to each other in that way. If you look at it another way, the theoretical data transfer rate limit of USB 2.0 is 480Mbit/s...and if you play a 96/24 file through Foobar (or any other player that shows you the overall bitrate), you'll notice the number is around 3000-4000 kbit/s, or 3-4 Mbit/s...so there's plenty of room left in that bandwidth. Again, some of this is substantiated and some isn't. I'm not a computer engineer...I've just spent WAY too much time researching the digital side of this lovely hobby of ours. |
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Post by jlafrenz on Dec 5, 2010 0:50:53 GMT -5
I have an update on the 24/192 situation. Originally I reported that 24/192 files played with foobar2000 via USB to the XDA-1 on an XP OS via USB using DirectSound. This is still the case, but there may be some re-sampling going on. I did a little research and found that DirectSound may not be bit-perfect in XP.
I also tried ASIO4ALL (instead of DS) with the same program trying to play both a 24/192 and 24/96 and got an error message ad NO PLAYBACK. It told me that the ASIO device did not support 96 or 192. I did not see anything in foobar where this could be reconfigured. I also took a look at the ASIO program while configuring the XDA-1 and it states that it is 16bit and 44.1-48k.
I apologize for jumping the gun with some premature test results earlier and hope this post clears up some things. I am going to do a bit more research and testing to see about DS being bit-perfect in XP.
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Post by xyz1 on Dec 5, 2010 1:15:08 GMT -5
I could be completely wrong but I've always read (can't remember where) that there is no formal limitation (when it comes to these bitrates and such, anyway) on USB data transfer (in 2.0) and that the main limitation is whatever USB receiver chip is in place in the receiving DAC. So as long as the DAC receiver chip can do 192/24, a USB 2.0 output should have no problem going that high. And it sounds like the XDA is capable of receiving that kind of rate. And a USB output is just a stream of digital information so drivers shouldn't be an issue. The necessity for a driver is just to enable digital streaming of music files across that connection. The data contained in a high-rez file is all there already...you just have to have that driver in place that allows the DAC and the PC to "talk" to each other in that way. If you look at it another way, the theoretical data transfer rate limit of USB 2.0 is 480Mbit/s...and if you play a 96/24 file through Foobar (or any other player that shows you the overall bitrate), you'll notice the number is around 3000-4000 kbit/s, or 3-4 Mbit/s...so there's plenty of room left in that bandwidth. Again, some of this is substantiated and some isn't. I'm not a computer engineer...I've just spent WAY too much time researching the digital side of this lovely hobby of ours. To tell you the truth I don't know about all that technical stuff. My usb connection didn't work, then I got it to work, that's all I know. I hope someone finds a better solution, one that can take the XDA-1 to the max of what it can do. |
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