geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 4, 2010 2:00:10 GMT -5
Build quality has a great deal to do with it. You want a well made cord so that it doesn't fail and cause a short or loss of operation. One that is designed to safely carry the amount of current that will be expected of it so as not to be a fire hazard. Just because someone can't hear a difference, doesn't mean they should have a cheaply made inadequate power cord.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 2:05:49 GMT -5
I received a Audioquest Sub-3 cable as birthday present from my parents, believe it retails for $300. Before i got this cable, I was using a Monster subwoofer cable. I didn't think by using the Sub-3 cable it would make any difference but it did. My friend even noticed. He thought i got a new sub but it was the cable. With the Monster i got a little bit of noise, with the Sub-3 absolutely no noise.
Would i buy this cable my self? HECK NO!!!!! I was fine with the Monster cable. I will probably end up selling the Sub-3 early next year.
Why would i want to sell it if it makes a difference? because the money i could get from the cable out weighs the SQ improvement.
If you had all the money in the world, you would be anal about everything and expensive cables are a perfect match for serious audiophiles. If i had a Bentley i would want the best oil or the best tires. If i had a set of $250,000 towers i would want the absolute best cables for them.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 4, 2010 2:14:16 GMT -5
I received a Audioquest Sub-3 cable as birthday present from my parents, believe it retails for $300. Before i got this cable, I was using a Monster subwoofer cable. I didn't think by using the Sub-3 cable it would make any difference but it did. My friend even noticed. He thought i got a new sub but it was the cable. With the Monster i got a little bit of noise, with the Sub-3 absolutely no noise. Would i buy this cable my self? HECK NO!!!!! I was fine with the Monster cable. I will probably end up selling the Sub-3 early next year. Why would i want to sell it if it makes a difference? because the money i could get from the cable out weighs the SQ improvement. If you had all the money in the world, you would be anal about everything and expensive cables are a perfect match for serious audiophiles. If i had a Bentley i would want the best oil or the best tires. If i had a set of $250,000 towers i would want the absolute best cables for them. I hear ya, kraemerkid. But in the case of interconnects or speaker wires, you have control of the the entire signal path from the amp to speakers or from the source to the amp. But if the amp was located down the street and the signal came to you through a few hundred yards of 16 guage wire, then spending a lot of money of a few feet of quality cable would be fruitless IMHO. In fact, it would probably be better to avoid the additional physical connection and just connect the speakers directly to that 16 guage wire. |
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Post by EMO_tional on Dec 4, 2010 7:37:30 GMT -5
I'm sure all one needs is a well built power cable. Beyond that, however seems mostly hype and snake oil.
Reminds me of a pair of Audioquest interconnects I had. They had a "power pack" attached to the cable that supposedly did something to the atoms in the cable, improving the sound.
I was convinced they worked, after all they cost over $500.00 for a 1 meter pair. (Expensive cables MUST be better, right..)
Then, one day I was hooking up another piece of gear into my system, the only other interconnects I had were a pair of AudioArt that I paid $60.00 for. To my horror, they sounded pretty much the same.
After a weekend of comparing the two, I could not tell the difference between a $500.00 set, and a $60.00 set.
All, I care about know is that the cable is well made, using properly soldered (not crimped) connections.
Here's a thought, a gallon of Ferrari Red paint will cost a small fortune. It's no better than Dupont's Ford Red, however nobody wants to paint a Ferrari with paint that costs $65.00 a gallon. It just SEEMS wrong.
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 4, 2010 8:49:29 GMT -5
First of all Mr Crazyhorse, why are you so bitter? We are all here just expressing our opinions - thats all. Yes, I think you should have a well constructed power cord, $5-$10 should do it. Past that I'm lost.
We have all learned (some the hard way) that spending huge dollars on speaker wire and interconnects is largely a waste of money according to some very conclusive documented studies done by some pretty qualified people over the years. Sure, cables have to have a decent quality, be well insulated against interference and have a decent thickness. But thats it.
All I ask is that you show me the empirical data or science that shows that a power cable can somehow alter the electric current in such a way to improve the SQ of a piece of electronics.
I'll bet even Emotiva will tell you there is nothing special going on with their PC's. Just nicely made and pretty to look at.
Just ask Noel Lee, the founder of Monster Cable. He's made millions designing and "marketing" cables of all types by making them look pretty and making all sorts of claims about performance and the like when in reality while they are good cables, they perform no better than any decently made interconnect.
The markup on cables is also 300%-400% in most stores which is ridiculous. I priced a Monster 75' HDMI cable at a store called Tweeter ETC. in NH. I was given a price of $361.00 which was close to the price of the TV that I was going to hook it to. I got this big speech from the sales guy about special shielding, oxygen free copper blah, blah...
I bought a 60' on Amazon for $19.95.
It works great......
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Post by crazyhorse on Dec 4, 2010 9:36:26 GMT -5
First of all Mr Crazyhorse, why are you so bitter? We are all here just expressing our opinions - thats all. Yes, I think you should have a well constructed power cord, $5-$10 should do it. Past that I'm lost. We have all learned (some the hard way) that spending huge dollars on speaker wire and interconnects is largely a waste of money according to some very conclusive documented studies done by some pretty qualified people over the years. Sure, cables have to have a decent quality, be well insulated against interference and have a decent thickness. But thats it. All I ask is that you show me the empirical data or science that shows that a power cable can somehow alter the electric current in such a way to improve the SQ of a piece of electronics. I'll bet even Emotiva will tell you there is nothing special going on with their PC's. Just nicely made and pretty to look at. Just ask Noel Lee, the founder of Monster Cable. He's made millions designing and "marketing" cables of all types by making them look pretty and making all sorts of claims about performance and the like when in reality while they are good cables, they perform no better than any decently made interconnect. The markup on cables is also 300%-400% in most stores which is ridiculous. I priced a Monster 75' HDMI cable at a store called Tweeter ETC. in NH. I was given a price of $361.00 which was close to the price of the TV that I was going to hook it to. I got this big speech from the sales guy about special shielding, oxygen free copper blah, blah... I bought a 60' on Amazon for $19.95. It works great...... I'm not talking about HDMI for one which carries a digital signal. and sooooo once again you are just going to follow what someone else says and do as your told rather than TRY IT YOURSELF. Ever heard of the used market? Audiogon is a great place to buy and sell gear, and you can find products that are already used at half the price it normally is. You can then buy it and the resell it for the same price it was already bought for. Why am I so bitter? You don't even know me so why should you have the right to say that. Oh its something you read and the way you took my post. I'm annoyed at the fact that people are so inclinded to feel that they know everything just because they read it someone where rather than trying it themselves. Hmm you can pick up a used PC from signal cable, Pangea, etc for around 50 bucks. Most people will spend that easily on a dinner for 2 with drinks when they go out to eat. You can then easily resell the cable if you don't like it. Why not encourage someone to try it, and then if they don't like it or see a difference, they have a reason. Apart from that, you are just going by what someone else said. Who gives a crap who wrote it, doesn't really matter. They are not you, and thus you should be able to formulate your own ideas and conclusions. As I've said before none of you guys should even speak about what anyone spends their money on or make fun of someone until you sell all your emo stuff and buy pro audio gear. Once again specs can be just the same or better and cost is far less. So why buy emo. You then overpaid and are wasting your money. |
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 4, 2010 9:43:39 GMT -5
Why don't you just express your opinion on the subject and stop blasting everyone else for expressing theirs?
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Dec 4, 2010 9:56:06 GMT -5
What are you, some kind of troublemaker? Now you got me thinking maybe my test was flawed. I'm going to have to not hook up the stock power cable to my XPA-2 but then get another XPA-2 and not hook up the Emo X-series power cable to that one and see if there is a difference. Or do you think it will matter if I use an XPA-2 and an XPA-3? Heck I guess it would because the XPA-3 would have 1.5x as much crosstalk as the XPA-2 and taint my results. Dang it, now I'm gonna have to go buy a couple of UPA-1's!!  ROTFL ;D We all would appreciate if you would do that so we could put this matter to rest once and for all. I only have the stock cable so I know which one I'm not testing when its not connected.  Given what is claimed for things like the "Clever little clock". Perhaps those folks with fancy power cables can advise us if the lack of sound when not connected is deeper/quieter/more relaxing than when the stock cord is not connected. ;D BTW, in the case of The Emo cables, as they are not too pricey the main reason for buying should be for the looks/durability. At least they are not making any claims for improved sound quality from them. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Dec 4, 2010 10:01:43 GMT -5
I may have to try one of those cords. I have a little extra money now that I've sold my speaker wire insulators. They made a world difference in the sound and all for the better. But whenever I was engaged in some serious listening, one of our cats would come along an tip over one of the insulators. That portion of the speaker wire would then fall 1 or 2 inches and actually touch the carpet! Well, needless to say, the audio disruption was enough to make me jump right out of my seat and totally would ruin my listening experience and took me completely out of the mood. The wife said the cats will stay so the insulators had to go. So now I have to settle for compromised but uninterupted sound quality. Maybe the power cord could restore some of what I lost...  Awesome post! Love it! ;D Definitely a LOL moment. (Especially as we recently got a cat). |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 4, 2010 10:06:35 GMT -5
One comment re power cords. I have tested hundreds of them using fairly critical measurement gear in controlled laboratory environments. In general, the only thing a cable can do to the power source is degrade the signal. An unshielded cable can allow outside EMI to introduce noise and distortion artifacts. A high resistance cable can lower the voltage. A high reactance cable can phase shift the current in relation to the voltage. Poorly made up connectors at either or both ends can add resistance. What these changes might do to the gear being supplied is dependant on the quality of the power supply inside the gear, and in most cases a well-made piece of CE gear will filter the effects of phase and noise and since they are generally DC power supplies these effects will be moot for the most part even if they don't. Lowered voltage will always have an effect and is indeed to be avoided if at all possible. One thing I can say with absolute certainty: no cable can improve the power signal. The best cables will simply transport the incoming voltage and current with as little change as possible. Often upgraded power cords can do this better than OEM supplied ones. As far as any effects on the actual audio quality of the gear, as long as the incoming voltage is not reduced to the point where the power supply cannot produce the proper operating voltages, that is too subjective to discuss with any meaning. If you swap power cords and think it "sounds better," then more power to you. Do whatever makes you happy. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Dec 4, 2010 10:15:17 GMT -5
Sorry, but a water filter is a poor analogy. A water filter is designed to take something out of the water. Perhaps the stuff it gathers in the "dirty" pipe. A power cord should do nothing to the current. Neither clean it nor muddy it. Its just to keep it the same as what is at your outlet. Nothing more and nothing less. A more proper comprison would be to put a couple of feet of clean pipe at the end of the miles of "dirty" pipe and somehow expect the water to be cleaner now because of it. whatever you say. I frankly don't give a rat's ass. All I'm saying is try it for yourself before all you make it out that someone shouldn't do it, as in stop posting your stupid BS about snake oil this and that, and then joking about it because like I said, it doesn't encourage anyone. And no one ever answered my question, if nothing matters why the hell are you all here. Go buy some cheap pro audio amps and be done with it. They are like 400 bucks but if amps don't matter, or nothing matters then Emo is just over priced as well. I frankly don't care if you don't like how I post my opinion, what I say, how I come off, or whatever. I'm sick and tired of people telling others what to think/believe/know/that their opinion is justified by SCIENCE/whatever else bull crap they pull. Audio is subjective, just like you like emo for whatever reason, such as the SOUND, I like different IC's and PC's because of it. How about encourage someone to try something for once before calling it stupid, especially if you don't have any experience in it or bothered to even try it yourself. Hi CH! Don't take some of the "jokes" about it too seriously, the regulars here often joke about things even when there is serious discussion (e.g. house curves). The thing is, in the case of things like power cords, when folks do blind ABX testing, there is no difference to be heard. In other cases of testing things, there is a difference but the price versus the improvement is questionable, as an example, if you were offered a "wonder product" that was guaranteed to make a just audible 1% improvement to your $5000 system and that product cost $5000, would it be worth it? It would seem to me, selling the $5000 system for even 2500 and then buying a new system for $7500 that sounded e.g. 20% better would make more sense. What do I know though, I think sticking $10,000 (and more) of diamonds (and I don't think they are worth the price either for that matter) on a $500 phone is the height of insanity yet some people seem to like it. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 4, 2010 12:04:52 GMT -5
Geez, whats with that guy?? So angry :-(
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 4, 2010 12:08:54 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 4, 2010 12:12:19 GMT -5
I've read a couple of postings here that have definitely crossed the line in being personal. If you can't respond without making personal remarks towards another member, then please don't respond at all. Offending members have been PM'ed. Thanks for following the Lounge rules, and now back to the discussion at hand.  |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 4, 2010 12:15:23 GMT -5
Ed, I know I couldn't afford the cable riser on those much less a connector. Maybe when I hit the Florida Powerball jackpot. ;D |
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 4, 2010 12:47:21 GMT -5
And if it really does nothing why is there a $2400 power cord out there. Same reason why that company whose name I can't remember took a $500 Oppo blu ray player and put it inside of another box and charged 7x more for it. I agree there is a difference in quality among power cords, but whether or not there is a difference in the resulting sound from a system, I am skeptical and my belief is that no cord is worth that much money. But that's my opinion. However, just because something is expensive doesn't make it great or even good. Our government is expensive... draw your own conclusions. That would be Lexicon.... |
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Post by Porscheguy on Dec 4, 2010 12:48:07 GMT -5
Ed, I know I couldn't afford the cable riser on those much less a connector. Maybe when I hit the Florida Powerball jackpot. ;D  |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Dec 4, 2010 13:09:51 GMT -5
Good thing the moderator chimed in before I posted. Whew! 'Snake oils' is such a good warm up discussion before NCAAF playoffs begin! At that price for a power cable, it is not plugged in, it is INSERTED!
jamrock
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Dec 4, 2010 13:31:14 GMT -5
Good thing the moderator chimed in before I posted. Whew! 'Snake oils' is such a good warm up discussion before NCAAF playoffs begin! At that price for a power cable, it is not plugged in, it is INSERTED! jamrock ;D |
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kml
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Post by kml on Dec 4, 2010 13:58:13 GMT -5
I connect all my equipment with psychics I have abducted. When the signal becomes supernatural and telepathic it exists above and outside the natural and observable universe. This eliminates any deleterious effects whether they be due to the quantum small scale Higgs boson particles or large scale dark matter gravitational effects.
The requirements of care and feeding for audiophile reference level psychics consists of organic tofu, fair trade ancient grains and traditional hand woven Guatemalan Nebaj dress, and is nearly prohibitive in cost, far exceeding any mere cable, but the increase in rhythm, pace, timing, clarity and soundstage has to be believed to be heard.
A welcome upgrade to the psychic reference system is the "Carlos Castaneda, healing crystal, astrology chatter filter" which is a low level distortion the psychics tend to produce on their own.
I hope this has been a helpful post, please feel free to "tele"PM one of my psychics for more information.
cheers
ken
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