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Post by Poodleluvr on Dec 16, 2010 10:07:33 GMT -5
The impatience here is unbelievable. Lonnie said he would post when he has the data he needs and is ready to do so. If that is not good enough, then so be it. Sorry, I don't equate 'customer feedback' as impatience. Is the corporate decision final yet?-- Nope! In optimism, I would hope that Emo gives consideration to ALL feedback in their ultimate decision both past and present to include yours, 'cawgijoe'! Or, the other option is to provide no further feedback in blind faith and just sit back and wait... Keep the feedback loop open! |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 16, 2010 10:07:58 GMT -5
Explain why linear is not good in an audio product? I'd really like to know this. Without being a technical person, I'll give you the answer: Because our hearing (perceived loudness) is logarithmic and not linear. That's why it is standard for audio manufacturers to implement logarithmic volume controls. I want to hear from an audio engineer or an EE on this. |
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Post by rixtergonzo on Dec 16, 2010 10:13:38 GMT -5
What you have to understand here is that this is not a problem for everyone. The unit works with a preamp or receiver in the mix. The unit also works with some people connecting it directly up to an amp, witness the guy with the B&W speakers. At the moment it appears that people with very efflicent speakers are having this issue. I will not be returning mine as I use a Pioneer Elite VSX-01. You also have to understand that since Emo did not know there was a problem with some setups when they sent the dac out, they do need to test, verify, and then make a coprporate decision as to what is best for them and their customers. Once a decision is made on what to do, then you will hear about details including shipping. If you do in fact have an issue, I would suggest e-mailing and calling Emotiva to register it during your 30 day window. Make sure you keep a record of contact. Then have another eggnog and wait. My speakers are 90db, that is not very efficient... It is just above average efficiency, yet I can only comfortably turn the volume up to 2.5 for the majority of songs... If I had some 84db B&Ws then I'd be able to crank the volume higher, but the volume control still wouldn't work as it should and more importantly, as it was advertised when I bought it: in 0.5db steps... So even people with below average to low efficiency speakers are not getting the correct performance out of the volume control... If it was then they'd be able to make far more precise adjustments to the volume than they can now... They don't realize they have a problem, because unlike the rest of us (average to high efficiency speakers) they can crank the volume to a higher level... My B&W 802Ns are 91db...so I still wonder what else is it. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 16, 2010 10:16:53 GMT -5
For those that are currently worried about their 30 day window running out........I would suggest by-passing customer service......they can't give you the answer you want because it's not available yet.....still in test........and contact Lonnie.....Dan and Cathy Laufman.I apologize for trying to be positive here..........just my nature.......but I certainly understand that you want this product to work in your system and really don't want to return it.
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 10:25:53 GMT -5
My speakers are 90db, that is not very efficient... It is just above average efficiency, yet I can only comfortably turn the volume up to 2.5 for the majority of songs... If I had some 84db B&Ws then I'd be able to crank the volume higher, but the volume control still wouldn't work as it should and more importantly, as it was advertised when I bought it: in 0.5db steps... So even people with below average to low efficiency speakers are not getting the correct performance out of the volume control... If it was then they'd be able to make far more precise adjustments to the volume than they can now... They don't realize they have a problem, because unlike the rest of us (average to high efficiency speakers) they can crank the volume to a higher level... My B&W 802Ns are 91db...so I still wonder what else is it. What amp are you using? As I've said earlier (in this thread, if I'm not mistaken) there is also the possibility that not all XDA-1s had a linear instead of logarithmic volume... Until Emo gives us an official response, we have no idea whether it was a design mistake (affecting all units) or an assembly mistake in China (possibly affecting just some units)... |
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Post by rixtergonzo on Dec 16, 2010 10:49:49 GMT -5
My B&W 802Ns are 91db...so I still wonder what else is it. What amp are you using? As I've said earlier (in this thread, if I'm not mistaken) there is also the possibility that not all XDA-1s had a linear instead of logarithmic volume... Until Emo gives us an official response, we have no idea whether it was a design mistake (affecting all units) or an assembly mistake in China (possibly affecting just some units)... |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 11:06:58 GMT -5
For those that are currently worried about their 30 day window running out........ I would suggest by-passing customer service......they can't give you the answer you want because it's not available yet.....still in test........and contact Lonnie.....Dan and Cathy Laufman.I apologize for trying to be positive here..........just my nature.......but I certainly understand that you want this product to work in your system and really don't want to return it. I just sent an e-mail to Dan and Lonnie, letting them know the heated debates we are having in this thread and the poll thread (I provided links to both threads)... |
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Post by merlinwerks on Dec 16, 2010 11:08:20 GMT -5
Without being a technical person, I'll give you the answer: Because our hearing (perceived loudness) is logarithmic and not linear. That's why it is standard for audio manufacturers to implement logarithmic volume controls. I want to hear from an audio engineer or an EE on this. It's pretty common knowledge, been in practice for a very long time. Shouldn't take much Googling to confirm it ;D |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 11:08:44 GMT -5
Intriguing... did you ever get a response to whether you are the only person running XDA direct to XPA1? |
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Post by ajani on Dec 16, 2010 11:10:49 GMT -5
I want to hear from an audio engineer or an EE on this. It's pretty common knowledge, been in practice for a very long time. Shouldn't take much Googling to confirm it ;D But he needs an AE or EE to confirm it... |
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Post by rixtergonzo on Dec 16, 2010 11:17:12 GMT -5
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Post by sharkman on Dec 16, 2010 11:21:34 GMT -5
What you have to understand here is that this is not a problem for everyone. The unit works with a preamp or receiver in the mix. The unit also works with some people connecting it directly up to an amp, witness the guy with the B&W speakers. At the moment it appears that people with very efflicent speakers are having this issue. I will not be returning mine as I use a Pioneer Elite VSX-01. You also have to understand that since Emo did not know there was a problem with some setups when they sent the dac out, they do need to test, verify, and then make a coprporate decision as to what is best for them and their customers. Once a decision is made on what to do, then you will hear about details including shipping. If you do in fact have an issue, I would suggest e-mailing and calling Emotiva to register it during your 30 day window. Make sure you keep a record of contact. Then have another eggnog and wait. What you have to understand is the issue is not whether it's a problem for everyone. The issue is that the DAC does not operate as Emotiva said it would operate. People made purchase decisions based on that incorrect information. That is the issue. As to whether Emotiva knew about this at first, of course they did not. But 2 weeks ago, people were reporting this issue. From that point on, Emotiva needed to be pro-active. We know that they unbox and test units heading offshore, like Europe, Africa, etc. They should have simply tested the volume of these units as well and they would have easily discovered what we have been talking about. They may well have done this, but since they refuse to acknowledge a thing, the customer is left wondering about the 30 day window. We know that several XDA owners have been contacting Emotiva about this issue from posts on this forum. I myself have phoned twice and talked to 2 different reps. The first one told me that they were aware of the issue and it was one of the items that Dan would be looking into on his trip to China. Less than a week later the other rep claimed no knowledge of a volume issue. Apparently others have been getting this line as well, but it's good that Lonnie has at least inferred that he'd be looking into the matter. Where we go from there is anyone's guess at this point, and when there is uncertainty, customers understandably will not have oodles of patience. |
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mrla
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Post by mrla on Dec 16, 2010 11:28:50 GMT -5
My speakers are 90db, that is not very efficient... It is just above average efficiency, yet I can only comfortably turn the volume up to 2.5 for the majority of songs... If I had some 84db B&Ws then I'd be able to crank the volume higher, but the volume control still wouldn't work as it should and more importantly, as it was advertised when I bought it: in 0.5db steps... So even people with below average to low efficiency speakers are not getting the correct performance out of the volume control... If it was then they'd be able to make far more precise adjustments to the volume than they can now... They don't realize they have a problem, because unlike the rest of us (average to high efficiency speakers) they can crank the volume to a higher level... My B&W 802Ns are 91db...so I still wonder what else is it. my NHT speakers rated at 85dB and I can only use volume on xda-1 3.0 to 5.0, my wife turned it down to 1.0!!! even at 0.5 (first step) it is louder than i want to start wtih... |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 16, 2010 11:35:10 GMT -5
A DAC is not a preamp.
I've owned several DACs with gain controls on them and I would never think about using one as a preamp. The gain control should be used to match the output level to the input level of the preamp, IMo at least.
I think the error Emotiva made here was promoting the XDA-1 as a replacement for a preamp. I think that was a silly thing to do.
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Post by DYohn on Dec 16, 2010 11:36:31 GMT -5
i wonder whose sock puppet are you? Why the uncalled-for nasty comment? |
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mrla
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Post by mrla on Dec 16, 2010 11:37:58 GMT -5
A DAC is not a preamp. I've owned several DACs with gain controls on them and I would never think about using one as a preamp. The gain control should be used to match the output level to the input level of the preamp, IMo at least. I think the error Emotiva made here was promoting the XDA-1 as a replacement for a preamp. I think that was a silly thing to do. just name a few dac's with pre-amp(or u can call it gain controls) and very good at it: lavry, benchmark, monarchy... |
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mrla
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Post by mrla on Dec 16, 2010 11:39:49 GMT -5
i wonder whose sock puppet are you? Why the uncalled-for nasty comment? if u see it that way, i apologize...didn't mean to be nasty. i just need another cup of coffee i think. |
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Post by eusebio on Dec 16, 2010 11:42:08 GMT -5
A DAC is not a preamp. I've owned several DACs with gain controls on them and I would never think about using one as a preamp. The gain control should be used to match the output level to the input level of the preamp, IMo at least. I think the error Emotiva made here was promoting the XDA-1 as a replacement for a preamp. I think that was a silly thing to do. yes you are correct Dacs are typically not preamps but this product was marketed as such. if i sold a clothes dryer and advertised the appliance as being exceptional at removing wrinkles from clothes and then customers used it and reported it as not working would it be a fair response from me to say well are your clothes dry, you did buy a clothes dryer and not an iron? |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 16, 2010 11:43:53 GMT -5
Why the uncalled-for nasty comment? if u see it that way, i apologize...didn't mean to be nasty. i just need another cup of coffee i think. The comment was directed at me and I'm really not sure why.....bizarre. |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 16, 2010 11:44:48 GMT -5
Gentle folk,
I received a heads up about a few who would like a response from the company so I thought I would jump in here.
First let me say I haven’t read through the entire thread yet, but do plan to as time permits. From what I have read there are some very vocal people who are passionate about the subject as it pertains to the volume control implementation on the XDA-1.
At present we are testing a unit that we have changed the code in to give a log response for the output. But testing is not completed and as such I honestly don’t have any revelations to offer. When we have completed our test and are happy with the operation, then I plan to make a formal response.
Now to address some of the things that have been brought up.
Q. If the implementation works well what will be needed for those who wish to have theirs changed?
A. The unit will need to be sent to us for re-programming.
Q. What if I am out of the country?
A. Can’t answer that question at this time because we haven’t even decided on the course of action yet. But we will come up with a way to service our international customers.
Q. Will the 30 day audition period be extended?
A. At this point I would say no. The reason I say this is simply because we haven’t finished testing and have not decided what course of action we want to take. We may decide to extend it, but nothing has been discussed so far.
As with any open forum the speculation and assumptions are running wild, but I do want to state that we are looking into this and as always, we do listen to our customers.
There is one thing I do want to address though. There are those who persist in stating the unit is flawed and therefore has an “issue” and will argue this point ad infinitum. I would like to state that the unit is not flawed. The volume control works flawlessly. Whether or not its implementation works in a way you desire or works for your particular situation is a different subject, but the fact remains the system works. There are no glitches, no snaps, no pops, no little ticks, it just works. So for those who are demanding an acknowledgement that there is something wrong, sorry.
In closing I would like to say that we are looking into this and as we move forward, we will certainly let you know.
Lonnie
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