NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 28, 2011 3:23:30 GMT -5
Really? EDIT: I just look at it, and it says "Bob". ;D You are right! Sorry. ;D I took the opposite path than you. When I first began with HT I started off with an Integra receiver. (pro logic) Then I moved on to Denon (and still have and enjoy most of that gear). Now I am looking to go full separates in the near future and Onkyo is on thee list of possibilities again. I will wait for the XMC to be out for a while before I make a move though. So, Onkyo, Emotiva, and Marantz and some others are in the mix. PS I just can't get over the ugliness of the Outlaw. I did reedit my above post.  You know, I luv Denon as much as I luv Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Marantz, Rotel, and Kenwood!  ;D Seriously though, I am totally serious! ...But for the last few years, in the $200 to $2,000 point blank range (street robbery); the Onkyos have a pretty good value overall in their pre/pros and receivers. Would you agree with me? Of course, we ain't talking High End products here, with a High End sticker price you know... So you can't expect a High End Sound either! But you know what? For the price it ain't bad at all, not bad at all... And the UMC-1 is a total bargain as far sound quality is concerned! ______________ It still amazes me though, in these days and age to see some people so firmly grounded in their convictions, that they are questioning other's own convictions! Beats me man! You know what I mean... But hey, that's the world some people make of it right? Anyway, me I'm quite easy to please, and I luv all! All people, all their beliefs and their questions, their quests, their pursuits of happyness, their gear, and all that makes them more happier in their own life! Luv you all people! |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 28, 2011 3:31:11 GMT -5
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Post by KrellAV on Jan 28, 2011 10:00:36 GMT -5
Bob,
I certainly appreciate one's OPINION on what he/she thinks to be best in audio. I take it that this is your opinion. Fair enough. What is you empirical evidence that Onkyo is "best". I have owned many receivers and processors over the years and my opinion is very different than yours. I would just like to understand how you arrived at your opinion and not just through sales/price but actual performance. By performance, I mean actual listening tests with your environment, reliability, features, etc. Not to bust on you but you seem to state as fact but in reality is more your opinion. I'm goin' to quote you a second time here! 1. Thank you for appreciating my own personal opinion! 2. "Best" is in your own words! ...Some of the best is more like it! 3. "Fair enough"! I sure hope so! ...That goes without saying... 4. "Empirical evidence"! Wow! You really chose that one well Mr. Krell! 5. I luv it when people have different opinions! Makes this world much more interesting and much less boring!  Plus it creates discussions from which we can learn more! 6. "State as fact"! Nope, you're the one that came up with this idea! Not me! (Reminds me the mentality of some people over at AVScience Forum!) * Mr. Krell, what is REALITY? What are true FACTS? For you? For me? For them? Did I ckeck ALL the Audio gear in this world? NO! Did you? What are the true values in Audio that we can use to make a fair assessment? Are there some derivatives and variations in one's own system that play some important roles here? Is good functionality of operation and less than perfect audio reproduction are to be also considered into the equation? Is money a factor? Mr. Krell, I am a very outspoken person as you can see, and I luv communication and dicussions, because I learn from them. A constructive discussion is one that brings to the table new points, new perspectives, new experiences... A constructive discussion is not one that tries to impose ideas or say that a person is wrong about his own opinions, or that this product is the ultimate best and that other one is pure junk; but to weave substance and love and passion and real sharing about each one's own experience in an easy to understand, acceptance, relevance, into several products so we can compare them where we are now, in an audio forum (Emotiva Lounge). Did I ever say that I was totally right in my convictions? NO! But I am convinced notheless until proven wrong! I talk a lot and I hope that what I say makes sense, because it would make me feel pretty stupid! Now, please, again, tell me what you think, yourself personally, about the Denon AVR-4311CI A/V receiver, and the Onkyo TX-NR5008 A/V Receiver?Because at the end, that's all I'm interested to know, right here in this thread. Me, I already gave my viewpoint. Now your turn! Your friend, Bob Well Bob, I'll try be concise with my response. You made general statements of fact that were your opinion. Experienced it appears, yes, but opinion nonetheless. See the following quote; " Nope, I go with my brains, and from 2007 up to now, Onkyo/Integra is the new leader in the field of pre/pros and receivers overall! Performance/Value/Features/Build Quality/Ergonomics wise. ...And that mister is a fact!" You made a general statement about brands ( not just the receiver being discussed) and concluded you know best. I took your statement at face value because it was stated that way (see bold/underlined highlights). I won't bore you and others in this thread with my experiences dating back to 1974 until now of owning some rather interesting gear. That is why I ask for empirical evidence. Based on your steadfast conclusion, surely you would have something to back your statement up that would convince everyone that your data were without question and the correct result was concluded. Your lengthy response, while an interesting read on your history, did not do it for me  . There is absolutely nothing wrong with opinion in the hobby as that is what drives us. I am guilty as well but I try not to make blanket statements of fact when it is simple opinion. You can easily state experience as your determiner but a lot of other folks can do the same and come up with a different conclusion. So who is right? Everyone because we have our own ideas of audio nirvana whether they be only months in the hobby or decades. It was not my intention to take away from this thread but I couldn't help myself after reading your general statement of who's best for pre/pros and receivers. I just disagree and you haven't given me the evidence that would change my view. I won't intercede in this thread again, sorry for side tracking but felt compelled! Best of luck to the thread owner in his/her search for the best for their needs! |
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Post by hammmerhead on Jan 28, 2011 12:55:25 GMT -5
Thanks for staying on topic guys. As we all know there is no clear winner when it comes to audio equipment and everyone has their personal favorites. I have used Denon exclusively for over 20 years. Before that I had made a few bad decisions here and there "trying" other brands and have always gravitated back to Denon because IMO they always had the cleanest sound. Now days though the playing area is a lot more competitive. The manu's have finally realized that listeners are being more critical as far as buying a receiver and are demanding higher quality. I think it is awesome that so many receivers are so dang close when it comes to pulling the trigger. We are indeed the one who gets the reward in all of this competition. When it comes to the upper end of all thats out there, they are all very good and we all know that. I am a numbers guy and it may be my downfall in this hunt for a new AVR, but in the end I will have bought the one I thought was the best for my application. Sure it wont be the best for everyone, but it is a good thing we are all different or what the heck could we heckle about here TGIF my friends! |
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Post by headcheesebbq on Jan 28, 2011 13:15:23 GMT -5
I love my Denon 3311. ;D
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 29, 2011 2:26:11 GMT -5
Mr. Krell, I now see clearly that you simply don't like my style! I fully respect that and I fully understand where you coming from!
But I also believe that to be positive is to bring your own perspective to the topic of this thread, and not criticizing the style of others!
You let your emotions having the better of you instead of bringing your own personal experience in "your own style" to the table! That's the way I see it!
Each person has his "own style" and education to communicate in his own language with others, and that is also a fact!
I truly feel that you are taking my words out of real context here Mr. Krell!
When before you quoted me as saying "And this is a fact", did you read the words before it?
--> "Performance/Value/Features/Build Quality/Ergonomics wise."
So it is in fact my own and very personal view, and also the view of many other people as well!
At the end I don't quite get it why you have to express more your disdain on "my style" of employing my words more than to contribute positively to this thread!
Never once you mentioned what are your own thoughts regarding the Denon and Onkyo receivers that are the subjects of this thread!
See what I'm saying?
I tell you what; do that and I'll make an effort to readjust myself to your own taste!
Respectfully,
Bob
P.S. I do appreciate your honesty though.
And what other people don't say as a fact, are often posted as if indeed they were! You have millions of examples over at AVS Forum for example, and at Audioholics as well, and other audio forums of the Internet, all over the world! I can give you tons of links on reviews and posts that were never corrected and those false infos still abound all over the Internet! But do you think most people or the newer ones coming into the scene really care or want to know the real truth about this hobby of ours?
Plus you have all the lies and no corrections are being made about those past mistakes and erroneous informations!
Man doesn't want to really improve this garden, he's more concern about his own selfish little world than the big overall picture!
Some things went really wrong over the course of this planet's evolution, and they are still very present every single day!... Shlt happens!
_____________________________
_____________________________
Hammerhead, is your Denon AVR-3600 receiver running hot?
...Like if you crank it close to but before its limit?
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Post by alabamaboy on Jan 29, 2011 5:02:39 GMT -5
I am Canadian Mr. Krell, and I believe that overall I'm different than most Americans! I never locked my door when I go out! ...Or at night! And I certainly don't feel that I need to own a gun for my own protection and the ones of my family! Some things went really wrong over the course of this planet's evolution, and they are still very present every single day!... Dude, get some sleep. Your musings quickly turned into ramble  |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 29, 2011 5:47:53 GMT -5
Dude, get some sleep. Your musings quickly turned into ramble Agreed, I removed it! |
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Post by alabamaboy on Jan 29, 2011 8:44:48 GMT -5
Good man.
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 29, 2011 10:13:17 GMT -5
I have the Denon 4311 . The reason I bought the 4311 is because it can do 11.2 and the Onkyo cannot , it can only do 9.2. If you want DSX32 11.2 the Denon 4311 is the one to get. i wanted to try 11.2 and now that I have I will never go back to 7.1.I run my 4311 in pre-amp mode with an XPA-5 and a UPA-7 for amps with an Epic tower sub in front of my room and 2 SVS 20-39 passive columns running as one sub from a Samson amp in the back of my room. The Denon 4311 can calibrate 2 subs independently. For 2 channel I use the USP-1 in my setup and I am waiting for the XPS-1 to try . Let me know when Blu rays are natively encoded for "11.2". Actually let me know when they start encoding them "7.1", LOL! |
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 29, 2011 10:47:24 GMT -5
I have the Denon 4311 . The reason I bought the 4311 is because it can do 11.2 and the Onkyo cannot , it can only do 9.2. If you want DSX32 11.2 the Denon 4311 is the one to get. i wanted to try 11.2 and now that I have I will never go back to 7.1.I run my 4311 in pre-amp mode with an XPA-5 and a UPA-7 for amps with an Epic tower sub in front of my room and 2 SVS 20-39 passive columns running as one sub from a Samson amp in the back of my room. The Denon 4311 can calibrate 2 subs independently. For 2 channel I use the USP-1 in my setup and I am waiting for the XPS-1 to try . Let me know when Blu rays are natively encoded for "11.2". Actually let me know when they start encoding them "7.1", LOL! Ntrain..........LOL so true. There are a hand full of 7.1's but, no 11.2....blu's. I have never even heard of any talk about 11.2. |
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ntrain42
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 29, 2011 10:56:31 GMT -5
Let me know when Blu rays are natively encoded for "11.2". Actually let me know when they start encoding them "7.1", LOL! Ntrain..........LOL so true. There are a hand full of 7.1's but, no 11.2....blu's. I have never even heard of any talk about 11.2. I can only find 3 true encoded 7.1 blu ray discs, LOL! Can't wait for 13.2 to come out! ;D  |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 29, 2011 11:41:22 GMT -5
Ntrain..........LOL so true. There are a hand full of 7.1's but, no 11.2....blu's. I have never even heard of any talk about 11.2. I can only find 3 true encoded 7.1 blu ray discs, LOL! Can't wait for 13.2 to come out! ;D You don't look hard enough. Here are a few off the bat. (would make for a good thread in the HT section BTW.) * 3:10 to Yuma * The Arrival (Release date April 21st 2009) * Bach: Orchestral Suites No.1, 2 & 3 / Tripelkonzert * Bangkok Dangerous * The Bank Job * Be Kind Rewind * Beethoven - Mendelssohn: Violin Concertos - Acoustic Reality Experience * Belly * The Bird with the Crystal Plumage * Black Mask * Busoni: Doktor Faust Blu-ray * Chris Botti in Boston (Release date March 31st 2009) * The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian * Circle of Iron (Release date May 19th 2009) * The Condemned * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: The First Season Blu-ray (Release date May 19th 2009) * Daddy's Little Girls * Dark City * Dead & Buried * Delta Farce * Disaster Movie * Doctor Strange * The Doors * Dragon Tiger Gate * The Eye * Fast Company (Release date May 19th 2009) * Fearless (Directors Cut) * Ferruccio Busoni: Doktor Faust * The Final Countdown * The Forbidden Kingdom * Giuseppe Verdi: La Traviata at La Scala * The Golden Compass * Good Luck Chuck * Grieg - Piano Concerto / Symphonic Dances / In Autumn - Acoustic Reality Experience * Hairspray * Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus: Best of Both Worlds Concert Tour * Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle * Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Universal * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Collector's Edition * House of a 1000 corpses * House of Fury * Hulk Vs. * The Invincible Iron Man * Ip Man * Johann Strauss: The New Years Concert in Vienna - Acoustic Reality Experience * Lady Cop & Papa Crook * La Traviata at La Scala * Lust Caution * Meet the Browns * The Midnight Meat Train * Mr. Woodcock * My Best Friend's Girl * Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow * The Nightmare Before Christmas * Nino Rota: Complete Music For Viola /Violin and Piano - Acoustic Reality Experience * Oldboy * The Orphanage * Pan's Labyrinth * Perhaps Love * Pinocchio * Protege * Punisher: War Zone * Rambo (2008) * Red Cliff * Red Cliff 2 * Repo! The Genetic Opera * Run Fatboy Run * Rush Hour 3 * Saw IV * Saw V * Secret * Semi-Pro * Shoot 'Em Up * Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 9 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Sleeping Beauty * Space or Dream of Life * Spatial Dynamics * The Spirit (Release date April 14th 2009) * Star Trek - The Original Series - Season 1 (Release date April 28th 2009) * Star Trek: Motion Picture Collection: The Wrath of Khan, The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country (Release date May 12th 2009) * The Stendhal Syndrome * Step Into Liquid * Tchaikovsky - Piano Concertos Nos. 1&3 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Transporter 3 * Two Evil Eyes (Release date March 31st 2009) * Ultimate Avengers * Van Wilder * Verdi: Rigoletto * Vivaldi: L'Estro Armonico - The Best of Violin Concetros - Acoustic Reaity Experience * W. * Wagner: The Best of Overtures & Preludes - Acoustic Reality Experience * Waiting... * War * The Warlords * Weeds: Season Two * Weeds: Season Three * Weeds: Season Four (Release date June 2nd 2009) * Witless Protection |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 29, 2011 11:43:58 GMT -5
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Post by thomasd92 on Jan 29, 2011 12:52:51 GMT -5
You do not need 11.2 source to enjoy the DSX32 11.2 sound. The matrix is very good. When I am watching an NFL game the sound of the crowd wraps around me, you almost believe you are in the stadium and on blu-rays you can really hear the difference over 7.1. Do not knock 11.2 unless you have heard it . I love 11.2 on blu-ray concerts, it is like being in the audience.
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 29, 2011 14:19:21 GMT -5
I can only find 3 true encoded 7.1 blu ray discs, LOL! Can't wait for 13.2 to come out! ;D You don't look hard enough. Here are a few off the bat. (would make for a good thread in the HT section BTW.) * 3:10 to Yuma * The Arrival (Release date April 21st 2009) * Bach: Orchestral Suites No.1, 2 & 3 / Tripelkonzert * Bangkok Dangerous * The Bank Job * Be Kind Rewind * Beethoven - Mendelssohn: Violin Concertos - Acoustic Reality Experience * Belly * The Bird with the Crystal Plumage * Black Mask * Busoni: Doktor Faust Blu-ray * Chris Botti in Boston (Release date March 31st 2009) * The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian * Circle of Iron (Release date May 19th 2009) * The Condemned * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: The First Season Blu-ray (Release date May 19th 2009) * Daddy's Little Girls * Dark City * Dead & Buried * Delta Farce * Disaster Movie * Doctor Strange * The Doors * Dragon Tiger Gate * The Eye * Fast Company (Release date May 19th 2009) * Fearless (Directors Cut) * Ferruccio Busoni: Doktor Faust * The Final Countdown * The Forbidden Kingdom * Giuseppe Verdi: La Traviata at La Scala * The Golden Compass * Good Luck Chuck * Grieg - Piano Concerto / Symphonic Dances / In Autumn - Acoustic Reality Experience * Hairspray * Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus: Best of Both Worlds Concert Tour * Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle * Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Universal * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Collector's Edition * House of a 1000 corpses * House of Fury * Hulk Vs. * The Invincible Iron Man * Ip Man * Johann Strauss: The New Years Concert in Vienna - Acoustic Reality Experience * Lady Cop & Papa Crook * La Traviata at La Scala * Lust Caution * Meet the Browns * The Midnight Meat Train * Mr. Woodcock * My Best Friend's Girl * Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow * The Nightmare Before Christmas * Nino Rota: Complete Music For Viola /Violin and Piano - Acoustic Reality Experience * Oldboy * The Orphanage * Pan's Labyrinth * Perhaps Love * Pinocchio * Protege * Punisher: War Zone * Rambo (2008) * Red Cliff * Red Cliff 2 * Repo! The Genetic Opera * Run Fatboy Run * Rush Hour 3 * Saw IV * Saw V * Secret * Semi-Pro * Shoot 'Em Up * Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 9 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Sleeping Beauty * Space or Dream of Life * Spatial Dynamics * The Spirit (Release date April 14th 2009) * Star Trek - The Original Series - Season 1 (Release date April 28th 2009) * Star Trek: Motion Picture Collection: The Wrath of Khan, The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country (Release date May 12th 2009) * The Stendhal Syndrome * Step Into Liquid * Tchaikovsky - Piano Concertos Nos. 1&3 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Transporter 3 * Two Evil Eyes (Release date March 31st 2009) * Ultimate Avengers * Van Wilder * Verdi: Rigoletto * Vivaldi: L'Estro Armonico - The Best of Violin Concetros - Acoustic Reaity Experience * W. * Wagner: The Best of Overtures & Preludes - Acoustic Reality Experience * Waiting... * War * The Warlords * Weeds: Season Two * Weeds: Season Three * Weeds: Season Four (Release date June 2nd 2009) * Witless Protection Out of that whole list I think there are like what 3-4 decent movies?  ? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 15:36:21 GMT -5
Let me know when Blu rays are natively encoded for "11.2". Actually let me know when they start encoding them "7.1", LOL! Ntrain..........LOL so true. There are a hand full of 7.1's but, no 11.2....blu's. I have never even heard of any talk about 11.2. Then just use 5.1 and leave the other formats up to the big boys. Are you sure your not just Ntrain in a second account? Man you be brown nosin' up a storm in all his threads. ;D |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 29, 2011 17:49:37 GMT -5
Out of that whole list I think there are like what 3-4 decent movies? ? Hey, I don't make them, I just post them. |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 30, 2011 1:24:43 GMT -5
From your list Bootman, none are truly 7.1-channel discrete, they are all derived and pre-fabricated,
from the original 5.1 audio stems!
* Like Ntrain said before, there are only three or four at most that are truly 7.1 from the start!
"Toy Story 3" being one of them.
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
Posts: 27
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Post by azsoundman on Jan 31, 2011 2:47:01 GMT -5
Forget BOTH units, Buy an Anthem MRX-300, use it as your multi-channel Preamplifier along with the
closeout Emotiva UPA-7 Power Amplifier and just be DONE with it! All this 'talk' about specifications, what a bunch of BS that is! THD, S/N ratio, Blah Blah Blah... Folks I got news for Ya, they tell you absolutely NOTHING about the way in REAL LIFE an amplifier sounds. Where is the 'spec' for Musicality? One thing I know for sure is, until you 'Fix Your Room' its all pretty much irrelevant. If that WAS the case, then we all would make our decisions based on 'Consumers Reports'. I'm Sorry, but in my 38 plus years of working
in the A/V industry, untill you take ANY component home and listen to it in YOUR room with Your speakers,
Your interconnects, and Your speaker cables, the 'SPEC'S' are NOTHING more than numbers on a page!
Untill you 'TREAT' your room or at least have done the homework needed to understand the 'Why & How'
your listening room responds to SPL and Frequency Response measured in at least a half dozen places, can you reasonably assume that 'What You Hear' is in fact based on the gear your listening to. Look, I'm not saying your 'wrong' or I'm 'right', I'm just asking you to understand that EVERY room is Different! The same amplifier that can sound 'wonderful & magical' in one location can be harsh, soft, thin, warm, sterile or flat in another. Sound is Physics, Music is Emotion, you can 'correct' for one by applying principles that are constant. But the 'other' may never be the same on two or more days, with the same results. You were given two of the BEST sources of scientific test equipment available in this world, (EARS) learn to TRUST them, and the rest will follow. If anyone is interested in bass absorption, high frequency dispersion and regular or quadratic diffusion, let me know I can put you asleep in about 5 minutes. Till then, 'Thank-You' Emotiva for bringing the Audio world to So many, for the price of so few other manufactures can only
imagine... Happy Listening!
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;D
Plus it creates discussions from which we can learn more! 
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