Denon 4311ci vs Onkyo 5008

[hammmerhead]

Hello friends. I am looking for a HDMI/3D receiver now and will be adding the Emo XPA 5 this summer. I have always owned Denon and have appreciated the clean sound they have always offered. On the other hand I have been intrigued by the new Onk 5008, but it doesnt seem to put as stellar numbers up as far as SNR ratio, CD THD output and overall 5 channel power output. To the Onk's defense I have yet to see a bench test on the 4311 and what kind of output it has to 5 or more channels. As far as comparing THD in signal output and SNR ratio's I have just used the lessor Denon line via the (2311) model.
All in all Im looking for the best pre/pro, but still want the best unit for the dollar as will be using the unit without a dedicated amp for some time. I have had nods on both receivers, but the jury is still out IMO.

Anyone have any experience with both?

[Deleted]

I don't think you can go wrong with either one but before summer, denons newer models will be out.

[hammmerhead]

Thanks for the input N8. That is a very good point and one I didnt consider since the 4311 has just been out 3 or 4 months I think. Although my old Denon 3600 is pushing around 13 yrs or so, I still love it. It just has one toslink input and 1 coax/digital input which makes it tough to keep everything feeding a digital signal without swapping wires. Also, I cant do anything above Dolby 5.1, not even DTS. This is the biggest reason for my change along with the need for HDMI.

[rocky500]

How about the Yamaha RX-A3000 Aventage.
A friend of mine is looking at buying this one.

[NorthStar]

I'd take the Onkyo TX-NR5008 anytime myself!

* Don't put too much weight on the lab tests, they are not fully representative of the excellent performance of this flagship receiver!
==> For an example look at the lab tests of that Pioneer VSX-1017 receiver that retails for only $499;
and then read the full review!
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/svs-sbs-01-speaker-system-and-pioneer-vsx-1017txv-k-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures-pioneer

{Then you'd be better buy that $499 receiver because all the results from the lab tests are much better than the Arcam FMJ AVR600 receiver that cost ten times more at $4,995! But also read the full review.}
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/arcam-avr600-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

And Denon 9-channel receivers don't have better results either!

I read all there is to read about these two receivers, and the 5008 came on top!
And I know very well about the Denon and Onkyo sound as I owned/own several models from them both.

And one thing is for sure; you have much better chances to add external amplification with the Denon than the Onkyo.
With the Onkyo you can probably get away with it. Not so with the Denon. But it also all depends of your speakers and room.
Anyway the Onkyo is the most powerful for sure, plus its issues are easier to deal with than the Denon.
- Just read both threads from AVS Forum, if you didn't already.

Price wise, the 5008 is $1,599 right now (NewEgg on Saturdays).
And the 4311 is $1,599 at best right now as well.
And the 5008 is the much superior one for overall value, performance, features, ergonomics and much better build quality, and with much bettter DACs, DSP power, and 4 transformers including the toroidal one, and all gold plated jacks, plus the machined brass gold plated ones for the Phono and CD inputs.

It is so obvious, I wonder how some people can even question that!

[Pauly]

Isn't the Denon a bit less money?

Either way, I'd go Onkyo.

[Deleted]

Bob, your the choo choo of Onkyo! lol!

[Pauly]

And Choo Choo is the Bob of Onkyo lol.

[Deleted]

hehehehe!!

[hammmerhead]

Jan 24, 2011 18:44:51 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

I'd take the Onkyo TX-NR5008 anytime myself!

* Don't put too much about the lab tests, they are not representative of the excellent performance of this flagship receiver!

And Denon 9-channel receivers don't have better results either!

I read all there is to read about these two receivers, and the 5008 came on top!
And I know very well about the Denon and Onkyo sound as I owned/own several models from them both.

And one thing is for sure; you have much better chances to add external amplification with the Denon than the Onkyo.
With the Onkyo you can probably get away with it. Not so with the Denon. But it also all depends of your speakers and room.
Anyway the Onkyo is the most powerful for sure, plus its issues are easier to deal with than the Denon.
- Just read both threads from AVS Forum, if you didn't already.

Price wise, the 5008 is $1,599 right now (NewEgg on Saturdays).
And the 4311 is $1,599 at best right now as well.
And the 5008 is the much superior one for overall value, performance, features, ergonomics and much better build quality, and with much bettter DACs, DSP power, and 4 transformers including the toroidal one, and all gold plated jacks, plus the machined brass gold plated ones for the Phono and CD inputs.

It is so obvious, I wonder how some people can even question that!

Well its not that obvious to me, although I wish it was. I like the Onk a lot. The structure reminds me of how Denon used to build receivers. The big Toroid power supply is a plus, the DAC's are nice and its good looking. What I dont like are the numbers it produces on the bench even aside from its power output. Since the 4311 hasnt been bench tested yet, I am just running from HT's bench test on the much lessor Denon 2311. The 2311 SNR ratio is over 112db as compared to the Flagship Onk's 106db. The THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output is 0.027% on the Onk and .005% on the 2311. What would cause Onk's flagship to not be as clean as a mid Denon receiver? Now I know these numbers are something to kind of roll your eyes at, but hey it all adds up in the end. Now what really dissapoints me is how quick the Onks power output gets dirty. It benched at roughly 80 watts a channel at .1% THD X 5 channels which tells me since it can also pull a solid 80 watts X 7 channels at the same .1% it doesnt matter, at 80 watts by 5 or more channels constant its done as far as THD goes. When comparing the lightweight Denon 2311 on power everyone knows this isnt a fair comparison, but the little Denon actually produces more power (83 watts) into 5 channel load with the same THD...of course it does fall off about 15 watts less into a 7 channel load. Among the good looks and build of the 5008, Im just not getting what the fuss is all about and dang it I want to I guess I just expected it to produce a solid 100+ watts at least to 5 channels with a decent THD number like some of the previous upper Denon models or even the Pioneer 27 or 37.

Checking out the back of the Onk...do the speaker terminals accept bannana plugs? It looks like the center of them would be too small.

[sharkman]

I looked on the Denon page, and the 2311 SNR is stated as 100, though it's not clarified whether it's been A weighted which would make it worse than a measured 100 db that is not A weighted. As for the watts comparison, apparently Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a Denon. I compared the 876 with the 3808 Denon when I purchased, and the Denon was a little bit more polished with things like better Audyssey options, better performance when switching TV channels from SD to HD(Onkyo tends to lose signal for 8 seconds) and it just looked nicer than the Onkyo.

What sold me on the Onkyo was I saved about 500 bucks and got similar audio performance and the Reon video processor. BTW, the 5008 speaker terminals will accept banana plugs. Have you considered the 3008? It's no slouch and might compare better with the 4311. Anyway, if the price is the same, I'd go for Denon, just be careful where you buy, they don't always honor warranty on net purchases.

[NorthStar]

Jan 24, 2011 20:14:57 GMT -5 @n8dogg said:

Bob, your the choo choo of Onkyo! lol!

Nope, I go with my brains, and from 2007 up to now, Onkyo/Integra is the new leader in the field of pre/pros and receivers overall! Performance/Value/Features/Build Quality/Ergonomics wise. ...And that mister is a fact!

Denon used to be the leader with their 3XXX and 4XXX and 5XXX receivers series (remember their latest ones, the 3805 and 5805?).

Before that Yamaha was big! And Marantz had some pretty nice receivers as well (before they get acquired by Denon Holdings and McIntosh joined the party).

I'm not into one brand more than another one, but I do recognize who's doing the best work year in year out!
...And that right from the late 60s!
I can pretty much tell you all the best receivers and pre/pros in each and every year since 1968 up to now in 2011.
I own several audio magazines from right back then till now!
I probably spent more time reading, evaluating, comparing audio electronics than the vast majority of people in this forum, plus several other audio forums as well!

Is Onkyo perfect? No! But they are still on top compared to other manufacturers, since they introduced their XX5 series in 2007.

So, yes, I will recommend to others what I truly know and believe to be the best overall.
And I always try to read between the lines of each person to find out what they are mostly interested in: Sound Quality, Build Quality that also includes quality parts, Features with Ethernet and all that Jazzzzz, Ergonomics for easy operation and intuitive setup, Best Auto Room Calibration & EQ, and simply Best Overall Value including all of the above versus Price ratio!

For me right now, the best pre/pro Value is the Onkyo PR-SC5508. Then the Integra DHC-80.2.
{Do you guys remember when the PR-SC885P was selling for only $529?}
- Did I mention the UMC-1 at only $699?

For top receiver Value it's the Onkyo TX-NR3008, followed by the TX-NR5008. (The TX-NR3008 is only $1,149 right now, and was $1,115 at one point at Amazon.)
{Do you guys remember when the TX-SR805 was selling for only $449? And as of very recently,
the TX-SR876 for only $699?}

For Multichannel Amps, it's ALL the Emotiva amps!
For Subs, it's the SVSs, Rythmiks, HSUs and some Paradigm ones.

For Loudspeakers, no way I would say one more than another; it is simply too personal. But I do know good value and good design with smooth sound when I see them on my radar though!

Blu-ray players? Tough as they keep comin' and comin'...
CD players? You don't have to spend more than $500 for a great sounding one, the ERC-1 included.

And NEVER, and I mean NEVER buy at MSRP! Except for Emotiva of course; but then they always have great sales too!

I don't shy to say what my beliefs are! But I'm always careful because what for me is good ain't necessarily good for you!
But if you insist I'll do my very best to shoot all I got!

I am extremely flexible, and totally firm in my findings!
Plus I get several great feedbacks from happy people who bought what I recommended to them.

You can call me the Onkyo choo choo if you like for now, but be also aware that I harshly criticised them as well for their despicable Customer Support! And I mean that! Very tough on them! ...And that is fully deserved!

No one is truly bad on our planet (exept the people who kill mercilessly innocent people like the terrorists and suicide bombers without any brains!); and nobody is perfectly good either!

Life is all about BALANCE & INTELLIGENCE; then COMMUNICATION!

P.S. I tought Ntrain was the Onkyo & Rythmik choo choo?
...Maybe he is the main locomotive engine of the freight train, and I'm just the caboose at the other end? ...A bulletproof caboose!

[NorthStar]

Jan 24, 2011 18:44:51 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

I'd take the Onkyo TX-NR5008 anytime myself!

* Don't put too much weight on the lab tests, they are not fully representative of the excellent performance of this flagship receiver!
==> For an example look at the lab tests of that Pioneer VSX-1017 receiver that retails for only $499;
and then read the full review!
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/svs-sbs-01-speaker-system-and-pioneer-vsx-1017txv-k-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures-pioneer

{Then you'd be better buy that $499 receiver because all the results from the lab tests are much better than the Arcam FMJ AVR600 receiver that cost ten times more at $4,995! But also read the full review.}
* Here: @ www.hometheater.com/content/arcam-avr600-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

And Denon 9-channel receivers don't have better results either!

I read all there is to read about these two receivers, and the 5008 came on top!
And I know very well about the Denon and Onkyo sound as I owned/own several models from them both.

And one thing is for sure; you have much better chances to add external amplification with the Denon than the Onkyo.
With the Onkyo you can probably get away with it. Not so with the Denon. But it also all depends of your speakers and room.
Anyway the Onkyo is the most powerful for sure, plus its issues are easier to deal with than the Denon.
- Just read both threads from AVS Forum, if you didn't already.

Price wise, the 5008 is $1,599 right now (NewEgg on Saturdays).
And the 4311 is $1,599 at best right now as well.
And the 5008 is the much superior one for overall value, performance, features, ergonomics and much better build quality, and with much bettter DACs (B-B PCM-1795), DSP power, and 4 transformers including the toroidal one, and all gold plated jacks, plus the machined brass gold plated ones for the Phono and CD inputs.

It is so obvious, I wonder how some people can even question that!

Hammerhead, look at the two links here above in my own quote (those are new; I edited my above post)!
...And from what is in darker black!
...And the full quote again!

* And of course the Onkyo accepts bananas plugs!

Man! You are a specs guy! That won't do you too good in life if you only look at that side!
{Again, read those two links above from my quote!}

[NorthStar]

Jan 25, 2011 2:17:18 GMT -5 sharkman said:

I looked on the Denon page, and the 2311 SNR is stated as 100, though it's not clarified whether it's been A weighted which would make it worse than a measured 100 db that is not A weighted. As for the watts comparison, apparently Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a Denon. I compared the 876 with the 3808 Denon when I purchased, and the Denon was a little bit more polished with things like better Audyssey options, better performance when switching TV channels from SD to HD(Onkyo tends to lose signal for 8 seconds) and it just looked nicer than the Onkyo.

What sold me on the Onkyo was I saved about 500 bucks and got similar audio performance and the Reon video processor. BTW, the 5008 speaker terminals will accept banana plugs. Have you considered the 3008? It's no slouch and might compare better with the 4311. Anyway, if the price is the same, I'd go for Denon, just be careful where you buy, they don't always honor warranty on net purchases.

It's funny because I did look very carefully at the Denon 3808CI receiver as well the Onkyo TX-SR876. And at the end it was a very easy choice for me; I bought the Onkyo 876.

* For me what is very important in this Audio business, its the Build Quality! As it tells you a lot about the real care that went into a product without any short cuts.
And of course the Sound Quality that matches well with my own speakers.

Denon is getting lighter and lighter, and that means that at high volume levels you'd better get external amplification!
But with Klipsch speakers, go ahead get a Denon for more money!!!
Or get an Onkyo for less money!

A 35 pounds receiver versus a 55 pounds one is only 20 pounds difference. What do you think this 20 pounds difference truly means?

And what about those two new Yamaha Aventage receivers, the RX-A2000 and RX-A3000?
Are they expensive? Are they good sounding? Probably!
Do they have Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Audyssey Sub EQ HT, Audyssey Dynamic EQ, Audyssey Dynamic Volume, Audyssey DSX, 9 power amplifiers? Are they ISF certified? Are they THX Ultra2 Plus certified?
Are they heavy?
...I heard good things about these two!

[hammmerhead]

Jan 25, 2011 2:17:18 GMT -5 sharkman said:

I looked on the Denon page, and the 2311 SNR is stated as 100, though it's not clarified whether it's been A weighted which would make it worse than a measured 100 db that is not A weighted. As for the watts comparison, apparently Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a Denon. I compared the 876 with the 3808 Denon when I purchased, and the Denon was a little bit more polished with things like better Audyssey options, better performance when switching TV channels from SD to HD(Onkyo tends to lose signal for 8 seconds) and it just looked nicer than the Onkyo.

What sold me on the Onkyo was I saved about 500 bucks and got similar audio performance and the Reon video processor. BTW, the 5008 speaker terminals will accept banana plugs. Have you considered the 3008? It's no slouch and might compare better with the 4311. Anyway, if the price is the same, I'd go for Denon, just be careful where you buy, they don't always honor warranty on net purchases.

HT's bench test shows these numbers for the 2311 review The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.12 dBrA. If this number is way off, then all the reviews including the Onk 5008 must be way off as well.
Here is what they had for the Onk 5008 The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –106.30 dBrA.


You know, I probably shouldnt be as picky when it comes to these things, but I dont buy new equipment often. The only reason I am upgrading now is because I really have to. I know in my opinion Denon seems to be coasting in some of the areas but not in the sound quality area.

Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

Yeah this is pretty crappy, but it seems like its popping up more and more as they try and cram too many channels in a receiver. What irks me is that if you have a constant source such as a stereo audio track and are feeding it to 5 channels or more all you are going to get is around 79 watts per channel RMS at .10% THD.

My issue is that Im probably 80% Audio and 20% HT. What matters to me more is clarity and sonics for music. I know I am being critical with the numbers produced inside the box, frankly because they dont lie. I am looking forward to seeing what numbers the 4311 offers. I pretty much know what all the numbers will be on the pre/amp side of things. It would be nice to see a solid 110+ watts X 5 and possibly 100 X 7, but I think I may be too optimistic to get that.

[hammmerhead]

Jan 24, 2011 18:25:57 GMT -5 rocky500 said:

How about the Yamaha RX-A3000 Aventage.
A friend of mine is looking at buying this one.

Hey Rocky. Yamaha's new RX line looks very nice and they seemed to have upped the bar some on it compared to their last big flagship the RX-Z7. The new RX 2000 series seems to be a little cleaner on the pre side as well.

[Deleted]

Folks, one thing that seems to get lost in the conversation is that ALL of these products have SN ratios and THD figures that are completely inaudible to you. There is NO audible difference between a reciver that has a 112 db SN ratio versus one that has 106 db. And there is NO audible differenece between .001 % THD and .008 % THD - NONE. And there is no audible difference between 100 watts/ch and 125 watts/ch.

So, try not to get too hung up on these figures, you cannot hear them. I pay more attention to the build quality, the user interface, and the service quality. These areas are ones that will affect your appreciation of a given unit...

-RW-

[NorthStar]

Jan 25, 2011 11:56:25 GMT -5 hammmerhead said:

Jan 25, 2011 2:17:18 GMT -5 sharkman said:

I looked on the Denon page, and the 2311 SNR is stated as 100, though it's not clarified whether it's been A weighted which would make it worse than a measured 100 db that is not A weighted. As for the watts comparison, apparently Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

That being said, you can't go wrong with a Denon. I compared the 876 with the 3808 Denon when I purchased, and the Denon was a little bit more polished with things like better Audyssey options, better performance when switching TV channels from SD to HD(Onkyo tends to lose signal for 8 seconds) and it just looked nicer than the Onkyo.

What sold me on the Onkyo was I saved about 500 bucks and got similar audio performance and the Reon video processor. BTW, the 5008 speaker terminals will accept banana plugs. Have you considered the 3008? It's no slouch and might compare better with the 4311. Anyway, if the price is the same, I'd go for Denon, just be careful where you buy, they don't always honor warranty on net purchases.

HT's bench test shows these numbers for the 2311 review The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.12 dBrA. If this number is way off, then all the reviews including the Onk 5008 must be way off as well.
Here is what they had for the Onk 5008 The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –106.30 dBrA.


You know, I probably shouldnt be as picky when it comes to these things, but I dont buy new equipment often. The only reason I am upgrading now is because I really have to. I know in my opinion Denon seems to be coasting in some of the areas but not in the sound quality area.

Onkyos now have protection circuitry that reduce output with all channels driven to full output, something that never happens in the real world of sound tracks. I wish they wouldn't do that, my 876 can do about 125 watts with 7 channels driven. So unfortunately you can't compare apples to apples with ACD tests.

Yeah this is pretty crappy, but it seems like its popping up more and more as they try and cram too many channels in a receiver. What irks me is that if you have a constant source such as a stereo audio track and are feeding it to 5 channels or more all you are going to get is around 79 watts per channel RMS at .10% THD.

My issue is that Im probably 80% Audio and 20% HT. What matters to me more is clarity and sonics for music. I know I am being critical with the numbers produced inside the box, frankly because they dont lie. I am looking forward to seeing what numbers the 4311 offers. I pretty much know what all the numbers will be on the pre/amp side of things. It would be nice to see a solid 110+ watts X 5 and possibly 100 X 7, but I think I may be too optimistic to get that.

My God, stop this right now mister!

A S/N ratio of 95 dB or one of 115 dB ain't a huge difference at all in absoulte listening term!
Look at Arcam receivers, they have the lowest S/N figures (95 dB) but yet they sound the very best!
There is much more to sound quality than just the S/N ratio my friend!

You want sound quality with Audio (Music)? ...Get the UMC-1 at the incredible price of just $699 then!
Add the XPA-5 to it and you're laughing big time way up to the bank and the bang!

I rest my case!

* TIP: Listen at very low volume level to any new product you audition; and if they sound dynamic, open, detailed, without any restrain, then you just found what you're looking for (good for micro and macro dynamics, equally at low and high volume listening levels).
=> AND DON'T FORGET YOUR SPEAKERS INTO THE EQUATION!

~ Yeah I know what's your worry; the high sensitivity of your Klipsch speakers right?
Do you really think that between 106 dB and 112 dB S/N figures ratio you'll be able to hear a difference with them?
THINK AGAIN!

If you truly are after the best, then get a separate pre/pro with a S/N ratio figure of over 120 dB. ...Cary, Denon pre/pro for $7,500, Anthem, ...

[Deleted]

My brother in law just got the new yamaha RX-A3000. I'm actually very impressed with it. The build quality is really nice, we hooked it up to his psb golds and we jamming withing a few minutes. Tons of options. I am very impressed. I wanted to pop the cover off and take a look but he wouldn't let me lol.

[ntrain42]

Jan 25, 2011 18:59:52 GMT -5 NorthStar said:

Jan 25, 2011 11:56:25 GMT -5 hammmerhead said:

HT's bench test shows these numbers for the 2311 review The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –112.12 dBrA. If this number is way off, then all the reviews including the Onk 5008 must be way off as well.
Here is what they had for the Onk 5008 The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –106.30 dBrA.


You know, I probably shouldnt be as picky when it comes to these things, but I dont buy new equipment often. The only reason I am upgrading now is because I really have to. I know in my opinion Denon seems to be coasting in some of the areas but not in the sound quality area.



Yeah this is pretty crappy, but it seems like its popping up more and more as they try and cram too many channels in a receiver. What irks me is that if you have a constant source such as a stereo audio track and are feeding it to 5 channels or more all you are going to get is around 79 watts per channel RMS at .10% THD.

My issue is that Im probably 80% Audio and 20% HT. What matters to me more is clarity and sonics for music. I know I am being critical with the numbers produced inside the box, frankly because they dont lie. I am looking forward to seeing what numbers the 4311 offers. I pretty much know what all the numbers will be on the pre/amp side of things. It would be nice to see a solid 110+ watts X 5 and possibly 100 X 7, but I think I may be too optimistic to get that.

My God, stop this right now mister!

A S/N ratio of 95 dB or one of 115 dB ain't a huge difference at all in absoulte listening term!
Look at Arcam receivers, they have the lowest S/N figures (95 dB) but yet they sound the very best!
There is much more to sound quality than just the S/N ratio my friend!

You want sound quality with Audio (Music)? ...Get the UMC-1 at the incredible price of just $699 then!
Add the XPA-5 to it and you're laughing big time way up to the bank and the bang!

I rest my case!

* TIP: Listen at very low volume level to any new product you audition; and if they sound dynamic, open, detailed, without any restrain, then you just found what you're looking for (good for micro and macro dynamics, equally at low and high volume listening levels).
=> AND DON'T FORGET YOUR SPEAKERS INTO THE EQUATION!

~ Yeah I know what's your worry; the high sensitivity of your Klipsch speakers right?
Do you really think that between 106 dB and 112 dB S/N figures ratio you'll be able to hear a difference with them?
THINK AGAIN!

If you truly are after the best, then get a separate pre/pro with a S/N ratio figure of over 120 dB. ...Cary, Denon pre/pro for $7,500, Anthem, ...

A 20db variance is enough to jack that noisefloor up significantly. And remember, you gotta add in all the components together to get your actual at the speaker signal to noise ratio. You can't just look at one component.

PS: Ill pass on Arcam.