iceman66
Emo VIPs 
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" The Great One
Posts: 1,083
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Post by iceman66 on Jan 31, 2011 2:55:06 GMT -5
Forget BOTH units, Buy an Anthem MRX-300, use it as your multi-channel Preamplifier along with the closeout Emotiva UPA-7 Power Amplifier and just be DONE with it! All this 'talk' about specifications, what a bunch of BS that is! THD, S/N ratio, Blah Blah Blah... Folks I got news for Ya, they tell you absolutely NOTHING about the way in REAL LIFE an amplifier sounds. Where is the 'spec' for Musicality? One thing I know for sure is, until you 'Fix Your Room' its all pretty much irrelevant. If that WAS the case, then we all would make our decisions based on 'Consumers Reports'. I'm Sorry, but in my 38 plus years of working in the A/V industry, untill you take ANY component home and listen to it in YOUR room with Your speakers, Your interconnects, and Your speaker cables, the 'SPEC'S' are NOTHING more than numbers on a page! Untill you 'TREAT' your room or at least have done the homework needed to understand the 'Why & How' your listening room responds to SPL and Frequency Response measured in at least a half dozen places, can you reasonably assume that 'What You Hear' is in fact based on the gear your listening to. Look, I'm not saying your 'wrong' or I'm 'right', I'm just asking you to understand that EVERY room is Different! The same amplifier that can sound 'wonderful & magical' in one location can be harsh, soft, thin, warm, sterile or flat in another. Sound is Physics, Music is Emotion, you can 'correct' for one by applying principles that are constant. But the 'other' may never be the same on two or more days, with the same results. You were given two of the BEST sources of scientific test equipment available in this world, (EARS) learn to TRUST them, and the rest will follow. If anyone is interested in bass absorption, high frequency dispersion and regular or quadratic diffusion, let me know I can put you asleep in about 5 minutes. Till then, 'Thank-You' Emotiva for bringing the Audio world to So many, for the price of so few other manufactures can only imagine... Happy Listening! Post of the year!! |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Jan 31, 2011 3:06:25 GMT -5
Good points Az, but I heard that ARC is too processed, too "faked" for serious Music listening! Do you have personal experience with the Anthem MRX 300 receiver? Did you compared it with the Denon AVR-4311CI and Onkyo TX-NR5008 receivers? I agree with you; specs and lab tests are only that, NUMBERS! ...But everyone luvs numbers!  Numbers sell! Even looks sell! What does the Anthem has that others don't? ...Splain that to me please! ...I'm all EARS! And why not just simply get a dedicated pre/pro like the UMC-1? ...Great quality sound, great build quality, great looks, excellent Value, and no goddamn internal amps to polute the sensitive and fragile preamplification section! ...But I luv your post man!  ...And Welcome to the Lounge, where we luv to hear different ideas and opinions of all types! Bob Oh, almost forget; VALUE (street prices) also sells! _______________ Hammerhead, what da ya think? ...Anthem MRX 500 (right between the 300 and 700)?  |
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Post by 45acpauto on Jan 31, 2011 10:55:53 GMT -5
Ntrain..........LOL so true. There are a hand full of 7.1's but, no 11.2....blu's. I have never even heard of any talk about 11.2. Then just use 5.1 and leave the other formats up to the big boys. Are you sure your not just Ntrain in a second account? Man you be brown nosin' up a storm in all his threads. ;D UMMM, do you speak English??? No, I just like to agree with people who know what they are talking about. whats with the "you be" Natedog. Wanna be keyboard gangster?  ?? FYI, I think it would be "Man, you are brown nosing up a storm in all his threads". ;D |
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ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 31, 2011 10:58:47 GMT -5
I can only find 3 true encoded 7.1 blu ray discs, LOL! Can't wait for 13.2 to come out! ;D   You don't look hard enough. Here are a few off the bat. (would make for a good thread in the HT section BTW.) * 3:10 to Yuma * The Arrival (Release date April 21st 2009) * Bach: Orchestral Suites No.1, 2 & 3 / Tripelkonzert * Bangkok Dangerous * The Bank Job * Be Kind Rewind * Beethoven - Mendelssohn: Violin Concertos - Acoustic Reality Experience * Belly * The Bird with the Crystal Plumage * Black Mask * Busoni: Doktor Faust Blu-ray * Chris Botti in Boston (Release date March 31st 2009) * The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian * Circle of Iron (Release date May 19th 2009) * The Condemned * CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: The First Season Blu-ray (Release date May 19th 2009) * Daddy's Little Girls * Dark City * Dead & Buried * Delta Farce * Disaster Movie * Doctor Strange * The Doors * Dragon Tiger Gate * The Eye * Fast Company (Release date May 19th 2009) * Fearless (Directors Cut) * Ferruccio Busoni: Doktor Faust * The Final Countdown * The Forbidden Kingdom * Giuseppe Verdi: La Traviata at La Scala * The Golden Compass * Good Luck Chuck * Grieg - Piano Concerto / Symphonic Dances / In Autumn - Acoustic Reality Experience * Hairspray * Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus: Best of Both Worlds Concert Tour * Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle * Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Universal * Hellboy II: The Golden Army Collector's Edition * House of a 1000 corpses * House of Fury * Hulk Vs. * The Invincible Iron Man * Ip Man * Johann Strauss: The New Years Concert in Vienna - Acoustic Reality Experience * Lady Cop & Papa Crook * La Traviata at La Scala * Lust Caution * Meet the Browns * The Midnight Meat Train * Mr. Woodcock * My Best Friend's Girl * Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow * The Nightmare Before Christmas * Nino Rota: Complete Music For Viola /Violin and Piano - Acoustic Reality Experience * Oldboy * The Orphanage * Pan's Labyrinth * Perhaps Love * Pinocchio * Protege * Punisher: War Zone * Rambo (2008) * Red Cliff * Red Cliff 2 * Repo! The Genetic Opera * Run Fatboy Run * Rush Hour 3 * Saw IV * Saw V * Secret * Semi-Pro * Shoot 'Em Up * Shostakovich: Symphonies Nos. 5 & 9 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Sleeping Beauty * Space or Dream of Life * Spatial Dynamics * The Spirit (Release date April 14th 2009) * Star Trek - The Original Series - Season 1 (Release date April 28th 2009) * Star Trek: Motion Picture Collection: The Wrath of Khan, The Search for Spock, The Voyage Home, The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country (Release date May 12th 2009) * The Stendhal Syndrome * Step Into Liquid * Tchaikovsky - Piano Concertos Nos. 1&3 - Acoustic Reality Experience * Transporter 3 * Two Evil Eyes (Release date March 31st 2009) * Ultimate Avengers * Van Wilder * Verdi: Rigoletto * Vivaldi: L'Estro Armonico - The Best of Violin Concetros - Acoustic Reaity Experience * W. * Wagner: The Best of Overtures & Preludes - Acoustic Reality Experience * Waiting... * War * The Warlords * Weeds: Season Two * Weeds: Season Three * Weeds: Season Four (Release date June 2nd 2009) * Witless Protection The majority of this list, the 7.1 encoding list is literally "false"(Take the Weeds,Star Trek series, Mr Woodcock as examples), where the sound effects out of the side surrounds are IDENTICAL to the rear surrounds)where they just parallel the sound effects to another set of channels. The movies where you can get distict sounds,delay and amplitude differences is very short. 3:10 Yuma and Pans Labrynth are 2 examples. |
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Post by hammmerhead on Jan 31, 2011 11:53:41 GMT -5
Forget BOTH units, Buy an Anthem MRX-300, use it as your multi-channel Preamplifier along with the closeout Emotiva UPA-7 Power Amplifier and just be DONE with it! All this 'talk' about specifications, what a bunch of BS that is! THD, S/N ratio, Blah Blah Blah... Folks I got news for Ya, they tell you absolutely NOTHING about the way in REAL LIFE an amplifier sounds. Where is the 'spec' for Musicality? One thing I know for sure is, until you 'Fix Your Room' its all pretty much irrelevant. If that WAS the case, then we all would make our decisions based on 'Consumers Reports'. I'm Sorry, but in my 38 plus years of working in the A/V industry, untill you take ANY component home and listen to it in YOUR room with Your speakers, Your interconnects, and Your speaker cables, the 'SPEC'S' are NOTHING more than numbers on a page! Untill you 'TREAT' your room or at least have done the homework needed to understand the 'Why & How' your listening room responds to SPL and Frequency Response measured in at least a half dozen places, can you reasonably assume that 'What You Hear' is in fact based on the gear your listening to. Look, I'm not saying your 'wrong' or I'm 'right', I'm just asking you to understand that EVERY room is Different! The same amplifier that can sound 'wonderful & magical' in one location can be harsh, soft, thin, warm, sterile or flat in another. Sound is Physics, Music is Emotion, you can 'correct' for one by applying principles that are constant. But the 'other' may never be the same on two or more days, with the same results. You were given two of the BEST sources of scientific test equipment available in this world, (EARS) learn to TRUST them, and the rest will follow. If anyone is interested in bass absorption, high frequency dispersion and regular or quadratic diffusion, let me know I can put you asleep in about 5 minutes. Till then, 'Thank-You' Emotiva for bringing the Audio world to So many, for the price of so few other manufactures can only imagine... Happy Listening! Thanks for your input. Do you have any test time between the two receivers in the thread? Do you have any time spent comparing the two to this Anthem receiver? Maybe you can touch on the qualities that the Anthem receiver has that supercedes the Onk and Denon. I mean, I am hearing your opinion, but you are bringing no substance to the discussion here. Please elaborate why this Anthem is better than the the other two. I really cant believe that so many people throw bench test numbers to the curb. Is it just coincidence that amp builders strive for high SNR ratios, dampening factors, over all low THD numbers and a flat reproduction? Dont we all want clean power, high dynamics and great control over the drivers? What about headroom? Are you saying all of this is BS and some sort of sound coloring that a Receiver offers is all that matters? As far as receivers go, the best of the best out there right now is very close IMO. These manus spends millions upon millions striving to steal market share from the other with each new design. Now please tell me why Anthem builds a superior receiver. |
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ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Jan 31, 2011 13:12:42 GMT -5
Forget BOTH units, Buy an Anthem MRX-300, use it as your multi-channel Preamplifier along with the closeout Emotiva UPA-7 Power Amplifier and just be DONE with it! All this 'talk' about specifications, what a bunch of BS that is! THD, S/N ratio, Blah Blah Blah... Folks I got news for Ya, they tell you absolutely NOTHING about the way in REAL LIFE an amplifier sounds. Where is the 'spec' for Musicality? One thing I know for sure is, until you 'Fix Your Room' its all pretty much irrelevant. If that WAS the case, then we all would make our decisions based on 'Consumers Reports'. I'm Sorry, but in my 38 plus years of working in the A/V industry, untill you take ANY component home and listen to it in YOUR room with Your speakers, Your interconnects, and Your speaker cables, the 'SPEC'S' are NOTHING more than numbers on a page! Untill you 'TREAT' your room or at least have done the homework needed to understand the 'Why & How' your listening room responds to SPL and Frequency Response measured in at least a half dozen places, can you reasonably assume that 'What You Hear' is in fact based on the gear your listening to. Look, I'm not saying your 'wrong' or I'm 'right', I'm just asking you to understand that EVERY room is Different! The same amplifier that can sound 'wonderful & magical' in one location can be harsh, soft, thin, warm, sterile or flat in another. Sound is Physics, Music is Emotion, you can 'correct' for one by applying principles that are constant. But the 'other' may never be the same on two or more days, with the same results. You were given two of the BEST sources of scientific test equipment available in this world, (EARS) learn to TRUST them, and the rest will follow. If anyone is interested in bass absorption, high frequency dispersion and regular or quadratic diffusion, let me know I can put you asleep in about 5 minutes. Till then, 'Thank-You' Emotiva for bringing the Audio world to So many, for the price of so few other manufactures can only imagine... Happy Listening! I respectfully disagree in specs being nothing. 3 "specs" that are very important to me with amplifiers and preamps are channel seperation,noisefloor and high frequency THD. And I can tell you quite frankly that those specs are not just important on paper, but to actual performance as well. I dumped off my UPA-7 due to the poor channel seperation/bleed through it had between channels. Id be listening to 2 channel audio in a sperate room, and the 5 other channels would be singing along as well at a lower volume level. Noisefloor is another biggie to me. Some amps and preamps have a high noisefloor where you can hear the speakers hissing away without applying music to it. Components in the signal chain that have a less than stellar S/N ratio will also raise that noisefloor as well, even your own speakers sensitivity. Alot of things to take into consideration. A watt is a watt, and there is no difference between watts from different mfg's, but what seperate the good products from the bad ones are how many artifacts from the signal chain they are able to reduce or remove altogether. All amps/preamps etc are basically "musical". Some just induce sound artifacts worse than others. And lots of times that what your paying for(on top of all the added markup that is. ). |
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
Posts: 27
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Post by azsoundman on Jan 31, 2011 19:02:33 GMT -5
I will 'clarify' a couple quick points; NO, I'm NOT throwing ALL specifications out the window. YES, their are differences in 'performance' that DO matter. My larger point was, do not get so 'hung up' on any one aspect or specification that you ignore other variables that directly DO influence the sonic signature that You HEAR. I had the pleasure of doing a direct 'blind test comparison' of the Denon 4311 vs. the Anthem MRX-500 at the factory in Mississauga Ontairo last October. Their were 17 of us in the same room and we were asked to compare and comment on 3 different 'loudspeakers' and rate our order of preference 'overall' in order of 1, 2, 3, etc. The same selection of music was played each time and we all changed our seating location 3 times as well. (they all were on risers with an 'unobstructive view' of the curtain so as not to be influenced by seating location) Within 45 to 60 seconds after the 'test' started, I picked the number 1 'loudspeaker' followed by a much harder decision between number 2 and 3. The more I listened the better I liked number 2. After we had all made our choices, the curtain was lifted and their was only 1 pair of speakers, 3 different receivers. I think all of us were impressed with what had just happened. The unanimous choice by all was receiver number 1, an Anthem MRX-500. Number 2 was a Denon AVR-4311, Number 3 was a Marantz SR-7005. The votes were pretty much split between the Denon & Marantz units. The speakers were a pair of Paradigm Signature S-6's. I do however respectively disagree with ntrain42 on the subject of 'all preamplifiers or amplifiers' being 'musical'. As I said in my remarks, I do not find that to always be true. We all can hear differences betwen tube and solid state gear, but I think most of us can also hear differences in Class 'A' vs Class 'A-B' amplifiers as well. You are correct 'a watt is a watt' but signal processing or lack their of, speed, time alignment, phase shift, etc. all will have an 'effect' on the final analog output we hear. Please see the web page www.acousticfields.com and take a look at the information posted, it is just one more variable that enters into the final equation. The products listed are currently under test by both manufactures, reviewers, and most importantly end users with exceptional results. Their 'foam' is absolutely amazing, I have tried all 3, 1/2" 1" and 2" and the difference results in 'jaw dropping performance'. No, I have Nothing to do with the company. Anthem products are tested under conditions not found in anything remotely resembling 'normal' use. ALL units are tested before they are released for sale, not 1 out of every 25 or 100 or even more as most manufactures 'quality control' standards. I have NEVER had my A-2 Statement even get luke warm to the touch, in the testing area of the plant you could not even get close to the chassis without burning your finger, the same in the 'cold test room', think of just walking into a 12X12 deep Freezer, and you have it. Full bench tests are also performed on each unit, with a 'ZERO' tolerance from reference bench marks. These people are SICK in their quest for absolute performance. How can they do it? I asked, the answer was not what I expected. The Canadian goverment under the Bureau of standards actually funds a portion of the R&D of all Audio gear and speakers made in Canada. They actually pay for the study of 'What makes a Difference between a good amplifier or speaker, and a bad amplifier or speaker', I never knew that untill the Factory tour. Paradigm product is also produced in the same location from start to finish, No cheap Chinese drivers. Also a fact not known to most is the 'other speaker manufactures product' that they also build completely from the ground up in the same plant. Lets just say their corporate offices are in Kansas and they are well know for their Hybrid electrostatic speaker designs. Again I had NO idea. So take anything 'anyone say's' on ANY fourm board with a grain of salt, the marketing people have to have something to do... Happy Listening! |
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Pauly
Emo VIPs
Posts: 5,237
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Post by Pauly on Jan 31, 2011 19:17:40 GMT -5
"the marketing people have to have something to do..."
LOL I like that, well put.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 1, 2011 1:22:01 GMT -5
Forget BOTH units, Buy an Anthem MRX-300, use it as your multi-channel Preamplifier along with the closeout Emotiva UPA-7 Power Amplifier and just be DONE with it! All this 'talk' about specifications, what a bunch of BS that is! THD, S/N ratio, Blah Blah Blah... Folks I got news for Ya, they tell you absolutely NOTHING about the way in REAL LIFE an amplifier sounds. Where is the 'spec' for Musicality? One thing I know for sure is, until you 'Fix Your Room' its all pretty much irrelevant. If that WAS the case, then we all would make our decisions based on 'Consumers Reports'. I'm Sorry, but in my 38 plus years of working in the A/V industry, untill you take ANY component home and listen to it in YOUR room with Your speakers, Your interconnects, and Your speaker cables, the 'SPEC'S' are NOTHING more than numbers on a page! Untill you 'TREAT' your room or at least have done the homework needed to understand the 'Why & How' your listening room responds to SPL and Frequency Response measured in at least a half dozen places, can you reasonably assume that 'What You Hear' is in fact based on the gear your listening to. Look, I'm not saying your 'wrong' or I'm 'right', I'm just asking you to understand that EVERY room is Different! The same amplifier that can sound 'wonderful & magical' in one location can be harsh, soft, thin, warm, sterile or flat in another. Sound is Physics, Music is Emotion, you can 'correct' for one by applying principles that are constant. But the 'other' may never be the same on two or more days, with the same results. You were given two of the BEST sources of scientific test equipment available in this world, (EARS) learn to TRUST them, and the rest will follow. If anyone is interested in bass absorption, high frequency dispersion and regular or quadratic diffusion, let me know I can put you asleep in about 5 minutes. Till then, 'Thank-You' Emotiva for bringing the Audio world to So many, for the price of so few other manufactures can only imagine... Happy Listening! Thanks for your input. Do you have any test time between the two receivers in the thread? Do you have any time spent comparing the two to this Anthem receiver? Maybe you can touch on the qualities that the Anthem receiver has that supercedes the Onk and Denon. I mean, I am hearing your opinion, but you are bringing no substance to the discussion here. Please elaborate why this Anthem is better than the the other two. I really cant believe that so many people throw bench test numbers to the curb. Is it just coincidence that amp builders strive for high SNR ratios, dampening factors, over all low THD numbers and a flat reproduction? Dont we all want clean power, high dynamics and great control over the drivers? What about headroom? Are you saying all of this is BS and some sort of sound coloring that a Receiver offers is all that matters? As far as receivers go, the best of the best out there right now is very close IMO. These manus spends millions upon millions striving to steal market share from the other with each new design. Now please tell me why Anthem builds a superior receiver.Canadian designed? |
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
Posts: 0
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 1, 2011 2:31:32 GMT -5
I will 'clarify' a couple quick points; NO, I'm NOT throwing ALL specifications out the window. YES, their are differences in 'performance' that DO matter. My larger point was, do not get so 'hung up' on any one aspect or specification that you ignore other variables that directly DO influence the sonic signature that You HEAR. I had the pleasure of doing a direct 'blind test comparison' of the Denon 4311 vs. the Anthem MRX-500 at the factory in Mississauga Ontairo last October. Their were 17 of us in the same room and we were asked to compare and comment on 3 different 'loudspeakers' and rate our order of preference 'overall' in order of 1, 2, 3, etc. The same selection of music was played each time and we all changed our seating location 3 times as well. (they all were on risers with an 'unobstructive view' of the curtain so as not to be influenced by seating location) Within 45 to 60 seconds after the 'test' started, I picked the number 1 'loudspeaker' followed by a much harder decision between number 2 and 3. The more I listened the better I liked number 2. After we had all made our choices, the curtain was lifted and their was only 1 pair of speakers, 3 different receivers. I think all of us were impressed with what had just happened. The unanimous choice by all was receiver number 1, an Anthem MRX-500. Number 2 was a Denon AVR-4311, Number 3 was a Marantz SR-7005. The votes were pretty much split between the Denon & Marantz units. The speakers were a pair of Paradigm Signature S-6's. I do however respectively disagree with ntrain42 on the subject of 'all preamplifiers or amplifiers' being 'musical'. As I said in my remarks, I do not find that to always be true. We all can hear differences betwen tube and solid state gear, but I think most of us can also hear differences in Class 'A' vs Class 'A-B' amplifiers as well. You are correct 'a watt is a watt' but signal processing or lack their of, speed, time alignment, phase shift, etc. all will have an 'effect' on the final analog output we hear. Please see the web page www.acousticfields.com and take a look at the information posted, it is just one more variable that enters into the final equation. The products listed are currently under test by both manufactures, reviewers, and most importantly end users with exceptional results. Their 'foam' is absolutely amazing, I have tried all 3, 1/2" 1" and 2" and the difference results in 'jaw dropping performance'. No, I have Nothing to do with the company. Anthem products are tested under conditions not found in anything remotely resembling 'normal' use. ALL units are tested before they are released for sale, not 1 out of every 25 or 100 or even more as most manufactures 'quality control' standards. I have NEVER had my A-2 Statement even get luke warm to the touch, in the testing area of the plant you could not even get close to the chassis without burning your finger, the same in the 'cold test room', think of just walking into a 12X12 deep Freezer, and you have it. Full bench tests are also performed on each unit, with a 'ZERO' tolerance from reference bench marks. These people are SICK in their quest for absolute performance. How can they do it? I asked, the answer was not what I expected. The Canadian goverment under the Bureau of standards actually funds a portion of the R&D of all Audio gear and speakers made in Canada. They actually pay for the study of 'What makes a Difference between a good amplifier or speaker, and a bad amplifier or speaker', I never knew that untill the Factory tour. Paradigm product is also produced in the same location from start to finish, No cheap Chinese drivers. Also a fact not known to most is the 'other speaker manufactures product' that they also build completely from the ground up in the same plant. Lets just say their corporate offices are in Kansas and they are well know for their Hybrid electrostatic speaker designs. Again I had NO idea. So take anything 'anyone say's' on ANY fourm board with a grain of salt, the marketing people have to have something to do... Happy Listening! Most impressive! * I knew that Anthem and Paradigm, as well other Canadian manufacturers are good, but it is still refreshing to be reminded once more! Chapeau to you mate! Well responded! ________________________________ I don't know though why they used the Marantz SR-7005 receiver as it is the same as the Denon AVR-3311CI receiver! And they already have the AVR-4311! If it was me, I would have used an Onkyo or a Pioneer Elite receiver with ICE. And I'm sure that ARC and Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (and MultEQ XT on the Marantz) were not part of this equation either. Because those with 2-channel Stereo Music listening are in my book more detrimental than helpful. ...I'm talking in a well set up 2-channel Stereo system here. - For Movies, that's another ball game! And that's where the main meat resides! A receiver is a multichannel Audio/Video piece of electronic, and should be mainly judged as so! We're talking specifically about those A/V receivers here, and NOT Stereo receivers! Hmmm... The UMC-1 at only $699 is a great option in my book, but not for everyone I guess, unfortunately! But for the people happy with (vast majority) and that can accept few compromises (as with any other products out there), it is quite a Value for Sound Quality alone! *** I checked the price of the Denon AVR-4311CI today, and it was $1,998 US dollars (street)! (Was $1,499 months ago!) The Onkyo TX-NR5008 is $1,599 US dollars (street). And the Marantz SR-7005 is roughly $1,200 US dollars (street?). The Anthem MRX 500 is $1,499 US dollars. And the Anthem MRX 300; you already know, $999 US dollars! {The MRX 700 is $1,999 USA dollars or $2,199 CAN dollars. All of them MSRP or very close street prices as well.} Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (for Movies) with Audyssey DSX (Front Wide & Height channels), with Audyssey Sub EQ HT (for multiple subwoofer calibration), and Audyssey Dynamic EQ & Volume, and nine (9) internal and discrete power amplifiers, plus Preamp mode for the 4311CI, ISV video certification and THX Ultra2 Plus certification for the 5008, and the inferior ARC implementation in these Anthem receivers as compared to the Anthem Statement D2V/ARC1 Pre/pro, and the different video processors and their different video parameters adjustments, and the number and quality of the DSP chips, and also the DACs (Burr-Brown PCM-1795 DACs, 32-bit/192 Khz in the 5008), and the main power section with the toroidal and three more EI core transformers in the 5008 (one for Video, one for Audio, and the other for Analog Audio), and the sheer number of connections (5008) and the extremely versatile Internet features (4311CI), intuitive and easy to setup (5008), beautiful GUI with graphs, colors and tons of adjutments (4311CI), and many many other variables (lab tests, looks, reliability, build solidity, trouble-free HDMI compatibility), extra care like Gold plated jacks for ALL the jacks plus the speaker binding posts, plus the machinned brass larger size and also gold plated jacks for the Phono and CD inputs on the 5008, plus the front too, and a good Headphone amp and good Phono preamp sections (5008), plus two USB jacks (5008 & 4311CI), plus Extra Large sized High Current power transistors (5008), two 75 Volts and 22,000 uF caps (5008), and the largest heatsink area with full solid black machined built aluminum (5008), great S/N ratio figures (5008 and 4311), great Crosstalk (channel separation) on the 5008, great THD+N figures (5008 and 4311), and TONS of other things that I simply omit here for not taking the entire space allowed on this site; ALL that makes for a serious analysis into the overall perspective from a Home Theater point of view! Would you say? P.S. Check the "Official" Anthem receivers thread over at AVS to find out more about their different issues! ...Well, ALL products have their own "personal" issues no? - And they are more and more becoming computers with constant firmware updates to deal with most of their issues (because manufacturers simply cannot afford the time to test them thoroughfully; certainly not in these high times of fast technologies)! So, you better be prepared to become a member of some audio forums, so you can learn how to operate your new toy. And better have a properly working PC as well! HDMI? 4D? ...I won't even go there! Audio/Video ain't anymore what it used to be! |
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Post by hammmerhead on Feb 1, 2011 11:50:38 GMT -5
Well I have to say its still coming down to the Onk and Denon. A few things I have noticed is the Denon appears to be cooled by dual fans which would explain the much smaller and lighter heatsink. If the Onk has the big toridal power supply and two or three other transformers, how does the Denon get away with a single power supply....or is it that the transformers are hidden under boards? Man it would be nice to A/B a few receivers before I pulled the trigger. Im still a little suprised that no one has done a test on the Denon yet. Heck it has been out for how many months now?
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ntrain42
Emo VIPs
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be home before breakfast!
Posts: 2,969
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 1, 2011 16:13:14 GMT -5
I will 'clarify' a couple quick points; NO, I'm NOT throwing ALL specifications out the window. YES, their are differences in 'performance' that DO matter. My larger point was, do not get so 'hung up' on any one aspect or specification that you ignore other variables that directly DO influence the sonic signature that You HEAR. I had the pleasure of doing a direct 'blind test comparison' of the Denon 4311 vs. the Anthem MRX-500 at the factory in Mississauga Ontairo last October. Their were 17 of us in the same room and we were asked to compare and comment on 3 different 'loudspeakers' and rate our order of preference 'overall' in order of 1, 2, 3, etc. The same selection of music was played each time and we all changed our seating location 3 times as well. (they all were on risers with an 'unobstructive view' of the curtain so as not to be influenced by seating location) Within 45 to 60 seconds after the 'test' started, I picked the number 1 'loudspeaker' followed by a much harder decision between number 2 and 3. The more I listened the better I liked number 2. After we had all made our choices, the curtain was lifted and their was only 1 pair of speakers, 3 different receivers. I think all of us were impressed with what had just happened. The unanimous choice by all was receiver number 1, an Anthem MRX-500. Number 2 was a Denon AVR-4311, Number 3 was a Marantz SR-7005. The votes were pretty much split between the Denon & Marantz units. The speakers were a pair of Paradigm Signature S-6's. I do however respectively disagree with ntrain42 on the subject of 'all preamplifiers or amplifiers' being 'musical'. As I said in my remarks, I do not find that to always be true. We all can hear differences betwen tube and solid state gear, but I think most of us can also hear differences in Class 'A' vs Class 'A-B' amplifiers as well. You are correct 'a watt is a watt' but signal processing or lack their of, speed, time alignment, phase shift, etc. all will have an 'effect' on the final analog output we hear. Please see the web page www.acousticfields.com and take a look at the information posted, it is just one more variable that enters into the final equation. The products listed are currently under test by both manufactures, reviewers, and most importantly end users with exceptional results. Their 'foam' is absolutely amazing, I have tried all 3, 1/2" 1" and 2" and the difference results in 'jaw dropping performance'. No, I have Nothing to do with the company. Anthem products are tested under conditions not found in anything remotely resembling 'normal' use. ALL units are tested before they are released for sale, not 1 out of every 25 or 100 or even more as most manufactures 'quality control' standards. I have NEVER had my A-2 Statement even get luke warm to the touch, in the testing area of the plant you could not even get close to the chassis without burning your finger, the same in the 'cold test room', think of just walking into a 12X12 deep Freezer, and you have it. Full bench tests are also performed on each unit, with a 'ZERO' tolerance from reference bench marks. These people are SICK in their quest for absolute performance. How can they do it? I asked, the answer was not what I expected. The Canadian goverment under the Bureau of standards actually funds a portion of the R&D of all Audio gear and speakers made in Canada. They actually pay for the study of 'What makes a Difference between a good amplifier or speaker, and a bad amplifier or speaker', I never knew that untill the Factory tour. Paradigm product is also produced in the same location from start to finish, No cheap Chinese drivers. Also a fact not known to most is the 'other speaker manufactures product' that they also build completely from the ground up in the same plant. Lets just say their corporate offices are in Kansas and they are well know for their Hybrid electrostatic speaker designs. Again I had NO idea. So take anything 'anyone say's' on ANY fourm board with a grain of salt, the marketing people have to have something to do... Happy Listening! I have a question: This "blind" listening test that was done between the ANthem,Denon, and Marantz(Denon in reality). How was each unit setup? Can you garentee an apples to apples comparison? Blind tests set up by one specific mfg. can leave alot to be desired and can very well be manipulated. This I know first hand. |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 1, 2011 16:21:05 GMT -5
Well I have to say its still coming down to the Onk and Denon. A few things I have noticed is the Denon appears to be cooled by dual fans which would explain the much smaller and lighter heatsink. If the Onk has the big toridal power supply and two or three other transformers, how does the Denon get away with a single power supply....or is it that the transformers are hidden under boards? Man it would be nice to A/B a few receivers before I pulled the trigger. Im still a little suprised that no one has done a test on the Denon yet. Heck it has been out for how many months now? The ONKYO uses the main Toroidal for the amp section and then dedicated transformer PS's for the signal processing and switching boards. I'd take the 5007(preferred as you can get em for $1200 bucks)if your not worried about "3d" switching for cheaper money, otherwise Id go with the 5008. Killer recievers with great amp sections. Killer bang for the buck. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 1, 2011 18:35:08 GMT -5
Well I have to say its still coming down to the Onk and Denon. A few things I have noticed is the Denon appears to be cooled by dual fans which would explain the much smaller and lighter heatsink. If the Onk has the big toridal power supply and two or three other transformers, how does the Denon get away with a single power supply....or is it that the transformers are hidden under boards? Man it would be nice to A/B a few receivers before I pulled the trigger. Im still a little suprised that no one has done a test on the Denon yet. Heck it has been out for how many months now? If you check the review of its predecessor, the Denon AVR-4310CI over at Home Theater, that would be very similar to the 4311CI receiver as they weight about the same, they smell the same, but it has only 7 power amps instead of 9 for the 4311CI. - But then if you look at the review of the 4810CI (same place), that receiver has 9 power amps, and you will see that it has a power limiter when more channels are driven! So between these two reviews, you'll get a pretty good idea of the 4311 receiver! And by the way, the Onkyo 5008 has also two fans (they are right under the two additional side transformers; one for the Video section, and the other for the Audio section). The 4th transformer is on the bottom left inside near the rear and close to the analog circuit board, or preamp (at the left of the preamp heatsink; it's a small one). => The fans in the 5008 will only activate in very high temperature (and I mean HIGH!); it is very rare that people ever heard them running in the past! ...Me , never either! And the Denon 4311 doesn't have additional transformers or Denon would charge you much more for those! If you push the Denon receiver, and you have 4 Ohm speakers all around, you'd better add external amplification, as it will stress under the pressure. Not so with the Onkyo! Simple physics still apply today! * I don't know if you notice, but in the Denon 4311, you still have room to add two additional power amps (that would make for a total of 11)! Finally, I totally agree with you that it would be best if you can get the "feel" from both in your own setup! And that's exactly what some people do: they buy one and check it out for few weeks, then they return it for a full refund, and they check another one! ...Till they found the one they prefer; musically, features wise, ergonomics, and overall personal preference! Some people hate Onkyo with a passion, and others think that Denon is high end! But then, you have another type of people (like me for example), that know that both are great, but at the end it's a personal preference based on your own set of values and what you KNOW! Either one I'm sure will rock your boat; but only you can make that final decision, because no one else is YOU! Me, I'm just me, and for me personally, it's the 5008! It fills perfectly my set of values in a flagship receiver! Did you notice that now manufacturers aren't making anymore receivers that cost near $5,000? There is a good reason for that; they become fast obsolete so they don't sell much now, and they aren't profitable for those manufacturers anymore! The Onk 5008 is it, the flagship with a $1,600 street sticker! And the 4311 is it to, with it's $2,000 (street) sticker; or the AVR-A100 100th Anniversary Sp. Edition for $2,500! But for $500 more you're paying only for couple peanuts more! The Arcam FMJ AVR600 receiver ($5,000) has the best sound of them all, and the worst lab tests of them all! But it has also many many issues that are outrageous for a product of this price! Every company have their own issues, and it's about deciding which of those issues you can handle best! At the end! Now, go out there and get them tiger! ;D |
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 1, 2011 18:48:35 GMT -5
Az, that blind listening test at Anthem: 1. Which source were they using: a CD player, a separate CD transport and separate DAC, a Blu-ray player, a Universal Blu-ray player, a Universal DVD player, an SACD player, a Turntable, ...? 2. And exactly which model and make? 3. Which music selections were they using? And from which media? 4. What type of Audio connection was used; Analog, Digital? ...And more specifically; RCA analog, Coaxial digital, Optical digital, HDMI digital, Multichannel analog? 5. And what Audio mode; was it "Pure Direct", "Direct", "Stereo", no Sub, with Sub, EQ, No EQ, ...? *** All very important details! ...And I already know that you guys didn't compare them with Movies, unfortunately!  _______________________ Me think that you buy an A/V Receiver first for Multichannel audio soundtracks (Movies). * Very seldom that a receiver has great sound quality on Music! Those will usually cost you (Arcam AVR600, Yamaha RX-Z11, Denon AVR-5805CI, Pioneer Elite SC-09TX, ...). And if you truly want "Audiophile" sound (high end), you go for a separate 2-channel Stereo setup! But that's just me, and my 
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Feb 1, 2011 19:04:21 GMT -5
...Jezz, did I use a bunch of emoticons or not? |
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Post by 45acpauto on Feb 1, 2011 19:32:59 GMT -5
FYI, I think all A/V REC'S suck. Marantz and Denon are by no means the same. I have sold all of them for well over 15 years and still do. The Onkyo amps are very shitty, not stable to 4 ohm at all, any of them, regardless of what they claim. Out of the bunch, I think the Marantz is by far the best quality sound of any of the rec's out there today. FYI and I still think they suck, buy separates.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 19:34:30 GMT -5
Then just use 5.1 and leave the other formats up to the big boys. Are you sure your not just Ntrain in a second account? Man you be brown nosin' up a storm in all his threads. ;D UMMM, do you speak English??? No, I just like to agree with people who know what they are talking about. whats with the "you be" Natedog. Wanna be keyboard gangster? ?? FYI, I think it would be "Man, you are brown nosing up a storm in all his threads". ;D LOL awww don't make fun of my name, it makes me sad It's ok if you love him, I be hearing from me homies that they be some states that will let you take it to da next level, you dig hole with dat?! ;D |
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ntrain42
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Post by ntrain42 on Feb 1, 2011 19:44:51 GMT -5
FYI, I think all A/V REC'S suck. Marantz and Denon are by no means the same. I have sold all of them for well over 15 years and still do. The Onkyo amps are very shitty, not stable to 4 ohm at all, any of them, regardless of what they claim. Out of the bunch, I think the Marantz is by far the best quality sound of any of the rec's out there today. FYI and I still think they suck, buy separates. Definetly not true. THose upper tier Onkyo AVR's without question have very good amplifier sections. Very good. And not 4ohm stable? Tell it to the man running all true 4ohm Maggie speakers that are very inefficient. Im not even using one of those upper tier Onkyo's. I'm using a lower model 707 to do it in my kids room. Onkyo's are known for having very good amp sections and being a very durable and dependable product overall. They have been for years. My previous 906 that I had, I would take that AVR over a UMC/UPA5 or 7 combo any day of the week. As for Denon/Marantz. Basically the same company and they use the same parts. Go over to the AVS, and search under Marantz/Denon, there are at least a couple threads showing the internals of recent offerings by these 2 brands. Sure looks like they are made from the same parts bin to me. |
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Post by Pauly on Feb 1, 2011 20:12:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry Andrew, but from my experience, the UMC/UPA-5 combo is a bit better than your typical Onkyo AVR. I compared the UMC/UPA-5 combo(before I had the XPA-5) against the 3007, and the UPA-5 clearly sounded better than the 3007 by itself. With the XPA, it's absolutely no contest. Sure, the Emo separates aren't the best separates out there, but they are without a doubt better than an Onkyo AVR by itself IMO.
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