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Post by moodyman on Mar 9, 2011 1:46:10 GMT -5
People should read up on room acoustics and comb filtering before they start stating they are hearing differences in power cables, IC's, amps, etc....and yes even speakers.
You may very well hear a difference after swapping out a power cord but the difference has NOTHING to do with the power cord. Comb filtering will cause area's in your room to sound different..even if they are only inches apart. So its easy to change a componet and go back to your listening position but be an inch or two off from where your sat last and hear a difference. If you have an untreated room you have comb filtering.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 9, 2011 2:27:28 GMT -5
Now people, dear Lounge members, listen to what Bob has to say! ;D Azsoundman (Sam) is a very cool guy!  He luvs to talk about AUDIO, to give his opinion, just like anyone of us! And it ain't because of his own personal style that you're now gong to attack him on that! Comprende? RESPECT is rule numero uno! All the time & anytime! Besides, Sam has a bit of a dyslexia problem (he's dyslexic a bit), as well some OCD for which he has to take some medications; plus he is a human being with a heart and sensitivity! Soooo, give your brother a break, and luv him for what he is, and not for what you wish he can be, from your own eyes! Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  Good now, this is out of the way! ;D Back to our program now with how to make your Emo XDA-1 sound better.  ...Just buy an expensive and very thick AC power cable! ;D Hey, just give it a try; what you gotto lose, right?  |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 9, 2011 5:00:02 GMT -5
People should read up on room acoustics and comb filtering before they start stating they are hearing differences in power cables, IC's, amps, etc....and yes even speakers. You may very well hear a difference after swapping out a power cord but the difference has NOTHING to do with the power cord. Comb filtering will cause area's in your room to sound different..even if they are only inches apart. So its easy to change a componet and go back to your listening position but be an inch or two off from where your sat last and hear a difference. If you have an untreated room you have comb filtering. I have to agree with this, well put. |
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Post by orangeLollies on Mar 9, 2011 6:02:49 GMT -5
Cable totally makes a difference man! ...in fact, the bigger the better... if they get big enough (diameter of a car tyre) they help reflect frequencies that you might enjoy hearing twice... AND if you get a spegetti pile of monster cable it could make a good diffuser?
;D
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Post by rclark on Mar 9, 2011 15:47:07 GMT -5
An aquantaince of mine had a listening room in his house, complete top to bottom with proper room treatment, special power conditioning units, upgraded wiring and sockets, and other upgrades on his electrical, placement of everything was accoustically measured and perfect, it was the kind of listening room many of us can only dream of.
The ceiling was false and stuffed with several feet in depth of insulation, effectively creating no ceiling, he had 40 basstraps throughout the room, diffusers along the back wall. His speakers were line arrays using ribbons and I believe Revelators. 4 Rythmik subwoofers.
I noticed he had fancy looking power cables on all his gear and asked him if there really was a difference. He fired everything up and swapped out his fancy cables with generic style and yes there was a very noticeable difference between a plain cable and the special ones he was using.
He mentioned, though, that cables are really the last thing you would mess with. As a general rule, speakers make the biggest difference, room treatment makes just as large a difference, if not the biggest difference of all to a system, and cables are to be considered that last final small tweak.
If you have just a crude hifi in a room (meaning just a stereo, reagardless of how nice, in a rough, untreated room, like most of us have), then it's likely you might not hear the difference a cable can make, and you probably are only experiencing a small fraction of your system's true capability anyway.
He's part of the reason my system will also be complete with room treatment, power conditioning, and cables.
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 9, 2011 16:16:00 GMT -5
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Post by tjhenry on Mar 9, 2011 18:03:28 GMT -5
I just thought I'd throw this information into the mix.
There is an article in the September 2008 issue of Affordable Audio where an electrical engineer uses an oscilloscope and spectral analyzer to measure noise in his power line with and without an upgraded power cord. The net effect is reduced noise in the power line due to the addition of the upgraded power cord. The reductions were in the 2 to 4 dB range, which should be audible. So, it seems the effect of upgraded power cords isn't to provide additional current to components, but to act as filters for noise that is contained within the power being delivered to a component.
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azsoundman
Minor Hero
2-Channel Freak (2.1 Video)
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Post by azsoundman on Mar 9, 2011 21:46:59 GMT -5
I also agree with the comments made in this post. You really must treat your room as a priority, just as much and perhaps even more so than the gear you put in it. I have been using both diffusion and bass absorption in my listening room and 2" foam on both side walls to control that first reflection. See www.acousticfields.com for product specifications and models available. Lab test results are also available on the site and the final foam sizes are 1/2", 1" and 2". All I can say is both their foam and free standing products out perform anything available today. So much in fact at CES in January, 14 different manufactures asked if they could share room space with them in order to 'improve' the overall sound quality of their amplifiers and speakers. I know what a difference a treated room makes, so much that now the opportunity to hear a full sound stage not only between the speakers, but extending outside the speaker boundaries themselves, deep fast tight bass, and in both height and depth an image that can best be described as layers of music almost approaching the magic of planar designs. I may have problems with Dyslexia and OCD which I do take medication for, but I have been blessed with the gift of very sensitive hearing, so much that 3 very well known speaker designers, have asked me on a number of occasions to listen to their final prototypes before production. I know their are believers and nonbelievers when it comes to the value of both interconnects and speaker wire, throw in power cords and acoustic isolation supports, power line filtration and in some cases actual power regeneration etc. Does it really make a difference in the end? I would have to say Yes, but the 5% difference or so in each area can add up very quickly to almost one and a half times or more of the original cost of the system. You have to decide if its worth it in the end. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 10, 2011 8:18:38 GMT -5
The ceiling was false and stuffed with several feet in depth of insulation, effectively creating no ceiling I'd be really interested in hearing how that was mounted and what material was used as I am planning a fully treated dedicated room. Cheers! |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 10, 2011 8:20:22 GMT -5
I just thought I'd throw this information into the mix. There is an article in the September 2008 issue of Affordable Audio where an electrical engineer uses an oscilloscope and spectral analyzer to measure noise in his power line with and without an upgraded power cord. The net effect is reduced noise in the power line due to the addition of the upgraded power cord. The reductions were in the 2 to 4 dB range, which should be audible. So, it seems the effect of upgraded power cords isn't to provide additional current to components, but to act as filters for noise that is contained within the power being delivered to a component. Q: Was the measurement done before or after the power supply? |
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Post by tjhenry on Mar 10, 2011 12:08:04 GMT -5
Nemesis,
If I've read the power line article correctly, the tester measures line output and noise at 3 locations:
1. direct from the wall socket (and compared to upgraded power cords plugged into the socket; as well as upgraded power outlets)
2. from the amplifier speaker outputs
3. from the end of the speaker cables
For all of the comparisons above, the noise floor is reduced approximately 2 to 4 dB with addition of an upgraded power cord. Further noise reduction is observed using upgraded outlets.
I thought it was a good article. It's a little confusing due to the multitude of figures, so if you read it, be prepared to take some notes.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 10, 2011 13:03:49 GMT -5
Thanks - was this with US 110/120v mains or 220/230/240?
Cheers.
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Post by tjhenry on Mar 10, 2011 13:41:03 GMT -5
Nemesis,
All tests were conducted using 110V power.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Mar 11, 2011 6:18:16 GMT -5
I suppose that could possibly make a difference as you do need thicker cable to get the same power when you have a lower voltage, i.e. you need a higher current passing.
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Post by stuofsci02 on Mar 11, 2011 14:24:04 GMT -5
I have never heard a difference between two well constructed cables of equivilent gauge. I have also never heard anyone show with any science (that could not be disproved by anyone who knows a thing about electricity) what about a cable will make a difference.
So for me, there is no sound difference and no factual information that would make me believe one to be better then another. So until some can show me, or at least make a plausible argument I will stick to what I know.
In case it matters I am an electrical engineer and a large part of my focus was on transmission lines, filters and communications.
Cheers!
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NorthStar
Seeker Of Truth
"And it stoned me to my soul" - Van Morrison
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 11, 2011 14:37:09 GMT -5
Wow! Can we believe more the science than our own eyes and ears?
That is what science is! Our brains!
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Post by geebo on Mar 11, 2011 14:43:15 GMT -5
Wow! Can we believe more the science than our own eyes and ears? That is what science is! Our brains! But sometimes, just sometimes, our minds play tricks on us. Science can be used to expose those tricks... ;D |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 11, 2011 14:47:06 GMT -5
Wow! Can we believe more the science than our own eyes and ears? That is what science is! Our brains! But sometimes, just sometimes, our minds play tricks on us. Science can be used to expose those tricks... ;D +1. Science can both expose and explain them. |
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NorthStar
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Post by NorthStar on Mar 11, 2011 14:59:46 GMT -5
Yes but science is an interpretation of numbers, figures in just some known facts, but not all the facts! ...And derivatives!
There is much more to science, or science is a constant rediscovery! It is NEVER absolute!
There are so many unresolved, never explored before, things of nature that can affect results from one day to another! Everything that is mechanic, electronic, electric, ...has many variables. And in time and space!
We are so inefficient with our full understanding of all these variables.
What we know and what we believe are two things that are not scientific. The true Science is a constant moving target!
It is the same with the Laws of Man! They need to be improved upon; in time and in reality of space!
Science is experimentation and discoveries! Without verifying it every day, it is obsolete!
What was yesterday is not necessarily true today!
Be true to yourself, and experiment with flawed instrumentation and nature's variables!
Electricity is a moving medium, and it travels at different times in space.
The properties can change from the source as it is never totally and perfectly controlled!
Tell me I'm wrong!
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Mar 11, 2011 15:04:00 GMT -5
OK... you're wrong.
;D Always happy to oblige.
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