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Post by monkumonku on Mar 17, 2011 9:01:38 GMT -5
I disagree. My life is junked up enough with disclaimers, asterisks, super-fast side effects lists, stick figure graphics, paragraph-long addenda to single-line emails, and all the other ridiculousness pushed on us by parasitic lawyers and control freak politicians trying to Nerf the world for the lowest common denominator. As far as all the comments about how easily "electronics" are damaged, have you guys ever taken anything apart? Electronics are not magical voodoo--you can physically break them, or short circuit them, and that's about it. If I ranked all the mechanical and electrical projects I've done involving stereos, general electronics, cars, computers, guns, home repairs, etc on a 1-10 scale, this would barely warrant a 1. Inside your computer is about a thousand times the complexity of this dac/pre, yet nobody gets up in arms about swapping a graphics card or hard drive. Of all the message boards I've been on (cars, computers, pistols, etc), this is the first where DIY writeups weren't a regular source of info, whether or not you wanted to do that particular modification. Any company can be as reasonable or ridiculous toward peeking inside their magic box, but at the end of the day we're talking about a circuit board inside a metal chassis screwed together by borderline-literate 3rd world line workers. If you trust yourself that little with a phillips head, nobody's making you do (or learn) anything, but it's a sad state of affairs when more people are interested in warning away the incompetent than exploring a neat piece of equipment. /rant That isn't the point. If you feel confident in your skills and have no qualms about opening up the unit, then more power to you. However, there are folks out there who really do not know what they are doing but think they do (and in no way am I suggesting that you or anyone else reading this thread is that kind of person, but you have to admit there are), and will open up the box and then be like a bull in a china shop, not even realizing the damage they do. So why should manufacturers be responsible for that? If you feel confident enough to take off the cover then you should be confident enough to know the warranty has been voided and you're on your own dime from that point on. I don't see why the manufacturer should have to be responsible for people who take it upon themselves to work on something not intended to be worked on. The problem is that while most people probably could do the proposed modification correctly, there are always those who can't (even thought they think they can) and who then become the squeakiest wheel when it comes to complaining and getting attorneys involved. Then they go blaming everyone but the true culprit for their woes. |
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Post by bobbyt on Mar 17, 2011 21:31:35 GMT -5
I don't think a manufacturer should eat the cost when someone ham-fists their products, as I pointed out in my post. I also think it's bad business to void warranties over unrelated issues.
It bothers me when I see how helpless most of my generation is in terms of very basic hands-on tasks, whether it's replacing a fuse or changing a flat or weatherstripping a window. So much of what made this country great was the desire to explore, disassemble, tinker and learn about anything and everything. That ingenuity has been replaced by passive over-lawyered Nanny State handwringing.
I consider places like this to be a refuge where people still like to tackle such projects, or at least learn about how systems go together, but the responses to this thread have surprised me. I'd hate to hear how you guys think auto companies should treat guys who change their own oil...should opening my hood mean voiding my warranty?
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myryse
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Post by myryse on Mar 18, 2011 0:42:30 GMT -5
WOW! This sure turned out to be an "interesting" thread. Not that my two cents really even matters, but here it is anyways. Both sides of this "discussion" have very valid points. I"ve been working in home/car audio installation and fabrication for 20+ years, so I'm a bit more on the adventurous side when it comes to DIY projects. That said, I totally agree with bobbyt when he talks about how "helpless" our generation acts in terms of taking on new projects or learning new skills. I believe that it's all about "hands on" when it comes down to something like this. Anyone with common sense and some basic skills should not be affraid to tackle a project of this nature, just take your time and DON'T BE AFFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS! And if your not that confident in your own ability to do something like this, but really like the idea, then try and find someone that is willing to help you or walk you through it. That's where I really think these forums "shine". A bunch of people with common intrests sharing knowledge. On the flip side of the coin...I believe that the manufacturer does have the right to void the warranty if the consumer has "abused" the product. What's the definition of abuse? That should be clearly stated in the "terms of liabilty". In my opinion, I would not categorize this project as abuse. Personally I love the way the EMO components look and don't have any intrest in getting rid of the illumination or altering them in any way, but at the same time, I greatly appreciate this post and I'm thankful that people like bobbyt are willing to take the time to thoroughly share their ideas and experience.
"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome."
-Samuel Johnson-
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Post by blessingx on Mar 21, 2011 1:16:27 GMT -5
I can't quite tell where defenders are drawing their lines, but if cracking the case is automatic warranty expiration, I feel for them. This mod is about as easy as can be and I'm far from a DIYer (haven't held a soldering iron for probably two decades) and have opened about every DAC I've ever owned for one reason or another. I've also used electrical tape or fingernail polish to block unnecessary lights on a variety of devices (for the record I'm a Emotiva fan, but not their HT christmas lights panel design). Seriously people this isn't much more difficult to switching a couple jumpers.
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Derry
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Post by Derry on Mar 21, 2011 10:15:21 GMT -5
being 70 years age and coming from the old school of thought I see way to many young people never wanting to find out the WHY any more,, they just want to throw some $$$ at it and keep it simple,,
with many hours of a soldering iron in hand I always found it exciting to see what made it tick and knew if I screwed it up I had better learn what I did wrong or get some help, not just play dumb and try for a refund,,
if ya don't feel competent under the hood stay out but I have yet to see the dead cat that curiosity killed,,
Derry
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Post by srb on Mar 25, 2011 3:06:57 GMT -5
The manual states that the front panel lights can be turned totally off with the DIM button, but for some reason that was never implemented in the control software.
Emotiva is not alone in overly bright LEDs. I have a Rotel RLC-1040 power conditioner (made by APC) that has 6 dimming levels, of which the dimmest one is still a little too bright. Like the Emotiva, each of the other levels is more ridiculously bright than the previous one. The saving grace is that the Rotel also has an off position.
It's unfortunate that the XDA-1 lights off function was not provided so that all talk of disassembly, electrical tape, desoldering and subsequent (unrealistic) warranty claims stemming from ESD, slipped screwdrivers or ribbon cable/connector damage could be avoided.
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Post by jbeede on Mar 31, 2011 21:03:34 GMT -5
I decided to crack open the XDA again to try to disable those pesky blue lights. The bad news is there's no easy plug to pull. The good news is my solution worked without any permanent modification. Opening the case is a 2 minute affair (4 screws on the rear of the XDA, another 4 on the side walls). The case doesn't slide off but unwraps--if you can't get your fingernails under the bottom edges, there's an opening at the bottom rear to help pry one edge out. The front panel is attached with 4 screws on the bottom, and another 2 on the sides. Unplug the two harnesses (the most "dangerous" part of the job--they feel so fragile) and it's off. There are 8 screws holding the circuit board to the face itself. At this point the LEDs would be easy to desolder if you want to go that route, but I didn't.The plastic light guides for the LEDs are glued into place and I didn't mess with them. I put a piece of electrical tape on the face plate blocking the source lights--you need to lay it on loosely or stretch it with something pointy since these LEDs are very tall. I then covered the LED plates for the buttons, since blocking the light guides surrounding the buttons would be difficult. I just laid strips loosely by the buttons and snipped little squares out to let them move freely but not leak too much light. I think it worked out great. If you wanted to spend the time you could do a perfect job cutting little button holes with an exacto, but I'm happy with my results. If you want to block the display as well, a piece of electrical tape inside the front panel screen should work. I left mine working for now, but I really don't need it other than to know my volume setting instead of just going by ear. Sorry for the crappy phone pictures; the brown thing added to the case was a lamp to brighten things up.  Your picture #5 (above) says it all for me. It is not possible that anyone who actually listens to music would like those bloated, bright blue lights! I am okay with dim blue lights--so I can see which input is selected. But they should be dim enough so that I can only see them when I actually look at them. Okay, it's not you... it's me. As I think about it, I have the dashlights in my car turned down so I don't see them in my peripheral vision, but bright enough so the gauges are are easy to read when I look at them. I guess you Gen Y guys would like the gauges bright enough to light your face up bright blue for the oncoming traffic!  |
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Post by moodyman on Apr 1, 2011 7:44:27 GMT -5
I consider places like this to be a refuge where people still like to tackle such projects, or at least learn about how systems go together, but the responses to this thread have surprised me. I'd hate to hear how you guys think auto companies should treat guys who change their own oil...should opening my hood mean voiding my warranty?  Wow....You car analogy is just way off...The car is designed so the owner can change the oil themselves and perform other recommended maintenance tasks. There's nothing in the XDA thats "user servicable". But If I mess with the car's fuel system and cause $1500 worth of damage I guess by your logic the automaker should foot the bill for repairs.. I really have no problem with anybody ripping open their audio gear and doing whatever mods they want. I also agree with other posters that tinkering is a good thing and that more pople should "learn" how stuff works. I personally love popping covers off of stuff and looking around. I also would have no problem performing the procedure that the OP presented. But I fail to see why companies should foot the repair bill for damage caused by such actions. I find it hard to belive that people think otherwise. |
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Post by flamingeye on Apr 1, 2011 9:19:43 GMT -5
Me as a inventor if I make something and sell to the public and in the manual it states no serviceable parts and only serviceable at authorized dealers/ qualified repair shops and removing the case voids warranty then if someone does remove the case that is not authorized then that`s that warranty is voided , sorry I do not no you from Adam how am I seapoose to know what you did or didn`t just because you said doesn`t mean &%$# to me you where not authorised or licenced to do so , just my 0.02
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 1, 2011 9:21:48 GMT -5
But I fail to see why companies should foot the repair bill for damage caused by such actions. I find it hard to belive that people think otherwise. I completely agree. No company should be expected to honor a warranty after a user has tried to make their own modifications of any sort. |
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Post by Entity on Apr 1, 2011 9:50:59 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone said that they should. It's just silly to expect and automatic warranty void just for removing a cover.
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 1, 2011 9:59:29 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone said that they should. It's just silly to expect and automatic warranty void just for removing a cover. I think the discussion was that a warranty should not be voided just because you take the cover off a piece of equipment, but should be based on what you mess with once you take that cover off. The way I see it, how does the manufacturer know what you messed with? That's why I say once that cover comes off, the manufacturer has every right to void the warranty - they have no idea what you are doing and have to protect themselves against folks who similarly have no idea what they are doing, either. When they say "no user serviceable parts inside," it is not from the sense that a user wouldn't necessarily know how to service it, but it is from the standpoint that the manufacturer did not intend for anyone to service it and doesn't want anyone to try (or at least if they do, it is on their own dime). |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 1, 2011 10:09:57 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone said that they should. It's just silly to expect and automatic warranty void just for removing a cover. Unless that's what the manufacturer says, then it is. My company sells several items with security seals on the cover to show if it's removed, and if any of these seals is disturbed the warranty is voided. It's the only way we can protect ourselves from liability due to operator curiosity or unauthorized tweaking.. |
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Post by bobbyt on Apr 2, 2011 17:09:18 GMT -5
It's very simple. If the problem is a loose connection, and opening the case reveals resistors knocked off or screwdriver holes in PCBs, case closed. If it's a blown capacitor, obviously it's unrelated. You guys are right about my car analogy being a bit off--a car is about a thousand times more complex than the XDA. Opening the XDA is something you need to be about 12 to be qualified for, whereas auto work probably takes a couple more years. Those of you interested in learning, understanding, tinkering, becoming self sufficient, and improving the world around you, thanks for looking. Those of you who like magical black boxes that are to be admired from afar and only touched by qualified third world / union labor, pardon my language but go buy an ipod. Back to drinking and Dragonforce... www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jgrCKhxE1s#t=3m20s |
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Post by flamingeye on Apr 2, 2011 18:05:38 GMT -5
I think you fail to realize there are a lot of idiots out there present company excluded of course
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Post by sharkman on Apr 2, 2011 18:07:54 GMT -5
Soooo, either one is interested in learning and becoming self sufficent (and improving the world around us no less) or one is some kind of simpleton? I won't touch the union or third world laborer, but you seem to have a dim view of anyone who disagrees with you. To bad about that.
The point is simply that electronics have warranties and the only way a manufacturer can be sure the fault lies with them is that the unit has never been opened by the end user. If it has, they can not tell if the person knows a cap from a resistor, or if they do that they didn't short something out accidentally, which would not leave 'screwdriver holes in PCBs'. There are too many schmucks returning stuff that they ruined and lying about it to make a warranty claim as it is.
if one wants to take apart their gear to tinker, fine, but you do so at your own risk. What's so bad about that?
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Post by badronald on Apr 2, 2011 23:59:03 GMT -5
I would remove those silver side plates way before messing with the Leds. Just My opinion
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Post by Gallichio on Apr 3, 2011 7:36:54 GMT -5
Hello All.
I must admit that one of the few things I dont like about Emotiva equipment is, all the blue Leds.
I think it makes the equipment look cheap. Actually all the Emotiva equipment I have is in a vertical rack and it is just to much.
I know some people like their blue lites and thats OK.
I think bobbyt did a great job cutting it down a bit.
I sit and listen to music for hours at a time so I have dimed and turned off all the LEDs I can with the switches provided. I can do without them.
I have not heard that opening your Emotiva will void anything in fact I was told by a Emotiva tech rep to open an amp that I had hum from and tighten the transformer down.
I still like Emotiva.
Mike
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Apr 3, 2011 8:20:49 GMT -5
I have not heard that opening your Emotiva will void anything in fact I was told by a Emotiva tech rep to open an amp that I had hum from and tighten the transformer down. Let me first state that I am not picking on you Mike or anyone else in this thread but in that situation you were given temporary authorization by Emotiva to open up the unit and perform a repair. It was not a "Free Ticket" to perform mods or make changes to the unit. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2011 11:27:13 GMT -5
So.....blue LED's make the equipment look cheap...?.........what about Krell........they use blue LED's.........
My take on this whole thing is, unless there is tape on the case or it's stated that removing the cover will void the warranty, I don't see an issue with taking the cover off out of curiousity just to look around....or blow dust out.
However, while the unit is under warranty, I personally would not want to give any manufacturer an excuse to deny my warranty claim after I have tinkered with the insides or modified it.
I have no problem with the lights on the XDA-1 or any other piece of equipment I own. If I can dim them, I'm happy. In fact I don't like not being able to see lights. However, everyone is different and I would design the equipment so that the display can be turned off if desired.
For those who want their lights off, has anyone asked Emotiva if this can be done via firmware update or sent in (maybe for a fee) to make this fix?
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