XSP-1

[Gary Cook]

The XSP-1 doesn't "process", it's 100% analogue, no digital circuitry whatsoever. We feed it an analogue signal and it outputs an analogue signal.

If you want to ditch the Onkyo and retain multi channel capability (5.1, 7.2 etc) then you will need a processor, a UMC-200 (there were still some left when I called last week) or an XMC-1.

You could use a standalone DAC, say an XDA-2 or a DC-1, but they also don't handle multichannel, just stereo 2.1.

If you want an upgrade path here's what I would do;
If the Onkyo has pre outs then I'd get a power amp, an XPA-5 for example. That will give you an immediate and noticeable step up in sound quality and quantity.

Give it a good run for a while and then, if you like it, by then there should be a UMC-200 replacement available. That'll give a big step up in processing power and sound quality.

Then and only then you might want to consider improving the stereo 2.1 listening experience. That's when an XSP-1 would be on my list.


Cheers
Gary

[solarrdadd]

Feb 8, 2015 22:52:33 GMT -5 brandanr said:

I sure wish i could hear the difference without making the big purchase.  How would the XSP work a primary processor without center channel? 

the XSP-1 is a 2.0/2.1 only pre-amp. on a slightly side note, when listening to multichannel audio from a device that can properly downmix it, if the speakers are set/spaced properly, you will create what is known as a phantom center. the phantom center is also created from just 2 channels when they are properly mixed and the speakers are properly placed.

now the XSP-1 is not a processor (per-say) it's a analog pre-amp used to switch between analog sources as well as it's HT bypass feature and it's ability to handle 2.0 or 2.1 very well.

[garbulky]

Feb 8, 2015 22:52:33 GMT -5 brandanr said:

I sure wish i could hear the difference without making the big purchase.  How would the XSP work a primary processor without center channel? 

Okay the big big advantage of the XSP-1 is that you can hook up a real quality 2 channel DAC to it as well as your (usually lesser quality) AVR and upto two subwoofers together all at the same time. Then the quality 2 channel DAC stays completely separate from your AVR, yet you can flick onto your AVR with a simple click of a button.
I feel that the XSP-1 improves the sound vs going direct from a 2 channel DAC to a power amp. But that's my subjective opinion.
So what an XSP-1 does is provide sort of like a brain so that when you upgrade the stuff, it can all go through a star class pre-amplifier. For instance, got a turn table? Bam- XSP-1. Etc etc.
If yuou just have an AVR period, the XSP-1 may be of limited use and it's all about if it will improve the channels. But...if you are trying to do that then it makes more sense to improve the signal at the source first. Unfortunately the best one emotiva has - the XMC-1 tends to be a bit on the pricey side so not everybody can afford it. Others have been using the UMC-200 with success, but I have no idea if it will sound better than your current AVR.
If you plan to use a 2 channel DAC, I think you DO want the XSP-1. But if not, I'm not sure if that is the first thing I would get.

[brandanr]

Thanks so much for information guys. I am definitely having a better understanding of what is offered and what direction I would like to go. I am definitely interested in the 2 channel DAC because I think it would improve the sound of my vinyl quite a bit. I actually just bought a Pro-ject Esprit and am gonna hook it up to the onkyo..I guess for now that will give me a starting reference. I really got the onkyo to give me time to build up my system..I think externally amping my speakers would be the best step first. Thanks gary. I thought that as well..and then I will be able to step up to a processor only like the XMC-1 once I have the power for all of my speakers. Which at some point I would like to be 9.2 but thats down the road. I have a long ways to go...I have to do it one step at a time. So would the XPS create any improvement on just connecting straight to the ONkyo? or is that mainly just for people that don't have a direct phono connect?

Thanks again guys..to gary, garbulky, and solardadd. Appreciate your information. I have so much to learn.

[deltadube]

Feb 9, 2015 0:09:58 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Feb 8, 2015 22:52:33 GMT -5 brandanr said:

I sure wish i could hear the difference without making the big purchase.  How would the XSP work a primary processor without center channel? 

Okay the big big advantage of the XSP-1 is that you can hook up a real quality 2 channel DAC to it as well as your (usually lesser quality) AVR and upto two subwoofers together all at the same time. Then the quality 2 channel DAC stays completely separate from your AVR, yet you can flick onto your AVR with a simple click of a button.
I feel that the XSP-1 improves the sound vs going direct from a 2 channel DAC to a power amp. But that's my subjective opinion.
So what an XSP-1 does is provide sort of like a brain so that when you upgrade the stuff, it can all go through a star class pre-amplifier. For instance, got a turn table? Bam- XSP-1. Etc etc.
If yuou just have an AVR period, the XSP-1 may be of limited use and it's all about if it will improve the channels. But...if you are trying to do that then it makes more sense to improve the signal at the source first. Unfortunately the best one emotiva has - the XMC-1 tends to be a bit on the pricey side so not everybody can afford it. Others have been using the UMC-200 with success, but I have no idea if it will sound better than your current AVR.
If you plan to use a 2 channel DAC, I think you DO want the XSP-1. But if not, I'm not sure if that is the first thing I would get.

instead of listening to 2 channel via the avr you will get a massive sound quality jump with the xsp 1 period..

now if you only use the avr for 5 channel movie or music you don't need it..

you don't need a dac for the xsp 1 .. if you have a cd player with a dac built in just try that with the xsp 1 out to amps mmmmmmm good..

cheers..

[novisnick]

Feb 9, 2015 0:37:35 GMT -5 brandanr said:

Thanks so much for information guys. I am definitely having a better understanding of what is offered and what direction I would like to go. I am definitely interested in the 2 channel DAC because I think it would improve the sound of my vinyl quite a bit. I actually just bought a Pro-ject Esprit and am gonna hook it up to the onkyo..I guess for now that will give me a starting reference. I really got the onkyo to give me time to build up my system..I think externally amping my speakers would be the best step first. Thanks gary. I thought that as well..and then I will be able to step up to a processor only like the XMC-1 once I have the power for all of my speakers. Which at some point I would like to be 9.2 but thats down the road. I have a long ways to go...I have to do it one step at a time. So would the XPS create any improvement on just connecting straight to the ONkyo? or is that mainly just for people that don't have a direct phono connect?

Thanks again guys..to gary, garbulky, and solardadd. Appreciate your information. I have so much to learn.

Wait a second here! I have not read the whole thread but I can tell you that you don't want a DAC for your TT to sound better.
a DAC is for digital sources not analog.

[KeithL]

As someone else already mentioned, I think you have a few things turned around....

The output of a turntable cartridge is a low level analog signal; it passes through a phono preamp, then a line level preamp, then a power amp, on its way to your speakers (at the moment all of those are inside your Onkyo reciever). What a DAC does is to take a DIGITAL input and convert it into an ANALOG output, so there's no real place for a DAC in that signal path. (Assuming you had a good analog preamp, you would use the DAC to connect digital audio sources like computers to it.)

While it's not exactly a matter of the sound quality being limited entirely by "the weakest link", the benefits to be obtained by upgrading each component do depend on the others, and where the current limitations lie. Assuming your Onkyo reciever has a phono preamp built in (which it might not), it probably wouldn't be a very good one, and that could make a big difference, so an XPS-1 would probably be a very worthwhile upgrade. While every part in a typical low to mid priced reciever is a bit of a compromise, the preamp section of the Onkyo is probably better than its power amps, so it would probably help more to upgrade to a better power amp first (most recievers have preamp outputs, which means you can use their preamp section with an external power amp), and worry about the preamp section last.

Feb 9, 2015 0:37:35 GMT -5 brandanr said:

Thanks so much for information guys. I am definitely having a better understanding of what is offered and what direction I would like to go. I am definitely interested in the 2 channel DAC because I think it would improve the sound of my vinyl quite a bit. I actually just bought a Pro-ject Esprit and am gonna hook it up to the onkyo..I guess for now that will give me a starting reference. I really got the onkyo to give me time to build up my system..I think externally amping my speakers would be the best step first. Thanks gary. I thought that as well..and then I will be able to step up to a processor only like the XMC-1 once I have the power for all of my speakers. Which at some point I would like to be 9.2 but thats down the road. I have a long ways to go...I have to do it one step at a time. So would the XPS create any improvement on just connecting straight to the ONkyo? or is that mainly just for people that don't have a direct phono connect?

Thanks again guys..to gary, garbulky, and solardadd. Appreciate your information. I have so much to learn.

[brandanr]

Thanks Keith. You explained that well. I am not sure about the phono section of the onkyo..You are right..Its probably not that good. I guess for 150 bucks that may be worth it. It would be good to see what difference it would make..Play the same record before and after...and see if there is a noticeable difference. Then work on the amps...and then down the road I could work on getting a better AVR and DAC...then I guess the xsp-1 would be kindof an end of line improvement. I do stream content off soundcloud and other internet sources. So that that is where the DAC would come in right. Just plug my phone in via USB and stream through the DAC to increase the sound quality?

Thanks again for the help guys. This has me feeling slightly less ignorant.

[flatpicker]

Feb 9, 2015 0:09:58 GMT -5 garbulky said:

I feel that the XSP-1 improves the sound vs going direct from a 2 channel DAC to a power amp. But that's my subjective opinion.

I combined the XSP-1 with the DC-1 for awhile and my subjective opinion supports yours.... though I'm shipping the XSP-1 to Wisconsin today for a member to clear the way for another XMC-1...

[KeithL]

Unfortunately, the answer to your final "question" is that adding a better quality DAC probably will NOT make a major improvement in the audio quality when playing streaming content. The problem is that virtually all streaming content is compressed using lossy compression, which seriously limits the quality. (There are some new streaming services that use CD quality - which is 16/44k - or even higher, and they will make a major point of mentioning it.) The sound quality of most streaming services is "OK but not great". Since the sound quality of the internal sound cards in most computers is pretty bad, using an external DAC or AVR instead of a computer's internal sound card is usually still a major improvement, but you're not likely to notice much of an improvement past that by going to a better DAC. (Playing your iPhone through an external DAC or AVR will almost certainly improve the quality at least a bit, but you will then "hit the quality limit" of the content you're streaming, at which point there's nothing using a better DAC will add to the situation. Remember that a better DAC can't "improve" the sound - all it can do is to cause less damage that something not as good would cause...)

You should also be aware that the "streaming rate" and "sample rate" numbers specified by most streaming services are not directly comparable to the "sample rate" numbers used to describe uncompressed files. For example, a 44.1k CD has MUCH higher audio quality than a 128k MP3 or 128k AAC file, and a 256k MP3 file, while better than a 128k MP3 file, is still not nearly as good as that 44.1k CD quality file (it's like comparing yards to acres - the numbers don't mean the same thing).

Where you will hear the biggest improvement by going up to a high-quality DAC is with CDs and high-resolution lossless content that you download.

Feb 9, 2015 2:31:42 GMT -5 brandanr said:

Thanks Keith. You explained that well. I am not sure about the phono section of the onkyo..You are right..Its probably not that good. I guess for 150 bucks that may be worth it. It would be good to see what difference it would make..Play the same record before and after...and see if there is a noticeable difference. Then work on the amps...and then down the road I could work on getting a better AVR and DAC...then I guess the xsp-1 would be kindof an end of line improvement. I do stream content off soundcloud and other internet sources. So that that is where the DAC would come in right. Just plug my phone in via USB and stream through the DAC to increase the sound quality?

Thanks again for the help guys. This has me feeling slightly less ignorant.

[leonski]

Keith, the ONLY way I know to get at the digital output of an iPod/Phone is thru a WADIA player which is Very Expensvie.
Other than that? You are using the 'pods internal DAC and feeding out of the headphone output. Even using the Apple supplied connector, I think you end up with analogue out.
is that correct even today?
If you CAN get at the digits, that would be a good arguement for suffering the capacity loss of going to ALAC on the 'pod.

[moitmoit]

KeithL - Would love to hear the rest of the story.  I have a XSP-1 powered by a XPA-200 and would like to play or stream CD quality or better files. Was thinking of adding a XDA-2 and an external hard drive with 2TB to 4TB of storage capacity.  If this is the correct 1st steps; how do I get the file from the hard drive to the XDA-2 while reducing any loss of quality? Laptop - tablet - software - e-connects - WIFI - Bluetooth?
Thanks!

[leonski]

Maybe construct or purchase a music server? An Apple Mini works fine and the output can be OPTICAL to the XDA-2 and and iPod Touch or phone can run the 'remote' application. I use a iMac via USB to my DAC and the iPod 'remote' application and it works find. Get ready to spend HOURS putting your CD collection on the server! The Mini has built-in WiFfi AND BlueTooth.

Near-countless other choices exist, but that's one way that works.

[Gary Cook]

Apple TV3 optical output to the XDA-2 will also work. Add its HDMI output to a monitor and you can stream video as well. You can play direct from your iDevice via AirPlay or control a music server in another room via wifi.

Cheers
Gary

[leonski]

BINGO!

[moitmoit]

Gary Cook and leonski - THANK YOU!
Over the weekend I finally got an Apple TV 3 and a XDA-2. All running through a XSP-1/XPA-200. I can finally listen to all my CD's without a CD player. The XDA-2 is incredible, even makes ACC files via i-tunes sound much better; we (wife and myself) usually listen to our music at higher than normal volumes, but by wife's first comment was how great the XDA-2 sounds at lower levels. Now I have to properly rip all my CD's. Thanks Emotiva community and Emotiva for making such affordable great sounding gear. On a side note, I have cut the cord with cable and now run a digital TV Antenna - Apple TV - and Roku - Saving money and sounding better....can't beat it.

I second the BINGO!

[ss]

Hi,

I have just got my XPA-200. I am planning to go for XSP-1 & was wondering if the pairing is good. Also, will adding XDA-2 be a good idea? I am a newbie to the audio world.
Speakers i have in mind are KEF LS 50. any suggestion is a good suggestion.

Thanks-

[novisnick]

Mar 27, 2015 17:57:46 GMT -5 ss said:

Hi,

I have just got my XPA-200. I am planning to go for XSP-1 & was wondering if the pairing is good. Also, will adding XDA-2 be a good idea? I am a newbie to the audio world.
Speakers i have in mind are KEF LS 50. any suggestion is a good suggestion.

Thanks-

ss,
First let me say hello and welcome to our little part of the world, we do incompase the whole world. Friends from everywhere and now you too.
lots of great,,,,,,well,,,,,,,,really nice people here,,,,he,,,,he,,,,he,,,,,

Anyway, welcome! The XSP-1 is a wonderful piece of gear! I'm not familiar with the sound of the XDA-2 but many here like it very much, personally, I went with a DC-1 and adore its sound. I may even have these two up for sale soon, PM me if interested,,,,, anyway, let me pour you a large cup of friendship! We all just love the taste of the blue Emotiva Cool Aid!

                                                                                      
                                                                              That's right, drink it all down,,,,,,,,,good,,,,,,,,,we gotcha now!!

[leonski]

I've heard the LS-50KEF several times. Last time It was being audiitoned with reasonably priced PARASOUND amps. At that time I met Richard Schram, the 'wheel' at Parasound. Great guy.

If I could accomodate BOX speakers, these would certainly be on the short list.

I'm sure you'll like the LS-50s. Better upstream is simply better. And you don't need crazy amounts of power, either. In a normal room at normal levels, I'm certain 100 a side would be fine.
A pair of XPA-100 or XPA-1L would be FINE. With the 1L amps in a cool climate, I see NO reason NOT to simply leave the switch in 'A'. I recently heard the XPA-100 (pair) in front of 7000$ worth of speaker. And NOBODY had a bad word to say about the amps! The EMO amps took the place of 54,000$ worth of amp, one of which wouldn't work…..thus the replacement amps from a volunteer attendee.

[ss]

Thanks a lot leonski & novisnick. Really appreciate your comments. I am sure to have loads of questions, some stupid as all, but am happy to have friends like you. Thanks again