jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 3, 2012 10:56:17 GMT -5
The best defense to slander is: "The Truth"
But I think that the intended implementation of TacT in the XMC-1 is a "one-button" affair with an option for the more technically astute to be able to use a computer to make more refined or personalized adjustments to the Fletcher-Munson curves.
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Post by ecolucci on Sept 3, 2012 10:57:39 GMT -5
I was unable to attend this year so I want to thank everyone who posted details on Emofest 2012. With regard to the XMC-1 shipping without TACT fully implemented, it seems the decision to begin shipping without TACT already was made, but if I had a vote, I would have voted to delay shipping until everything that initially was promised was (fully) implemented.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 3, 2012 10:58:34 GMT -5
So why not allow buyers to choose if they want the "techie" interface and the TACT enabled when they buy? Some of us might be OK with a "quirky" interface to start with. Especially if you can control it via computer too. NO...! I'm sure the XMC-1 will have a few un-expected/un-foreseen bugs when it comes out. But let’s just avoid as many as possible at launch to minimize the troll food on this site. To Emotiva, please take your time on the XMC-1. Release it when you think it is good and ready. No sooner. I only meant versus releasing it without TACT - I agree they should not release it until all features are in place - including internet firmware updated too for that matter. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 3, 2012 11:01:39 GMT -5
It is not that TacT is not working. As stated, the user interface is not (intuitive) user friendly enough for the likes of the majority of those expected to purchase the XMC-1. So, they need to go back to the drawing board and make some changes. Getting that and final testings done might delay the XMC-1 to the 1Q of 2013. So I'm not expecting the bugginess of the UMC-1 release. But I feel that Emo should take the additional time to release the product that was advertised. Not an approximation. I hate it when I can't rebut criticisms of my components. If it is actually working on the XMC-1 itself I really think it should have been demoed - once set up (funny interface or via the PC or whatever) I would think it should be simple enough to switch between on and off to at least let folks hear the difference and show it has been implemented in the unit. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Sept 3, 2012 11:03:49 GMT -5
The best defense to slander is: "The Truth" But I think that the intended implementation of TacT in the XMC-1 is a "one-button" affair with an option for the more technically astute to be able to use a computer to make more refined or personalized adjustments to the Fletcher-Munson curves. You are correct. To me, the TacT interface was pretty straight-forward. However, in one of my sessions in the listening room, Nick had to come in twice to un-bugger it up after someone felt the need to start pressing buttons. Hell, at one point I came in and one of the speakers were crossed out of phase (literally, the speaker wires on the left speaker were crossed)! Can you imagine sending some of those people home with the current TacT interface (that Big Dan said you almost need a Phd to fully understand)?  |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 3, 2012 11:07:28 GMT -5
So why not allow buyers to choose if they want the "techie" interface and the TACT enabled when they buy? Some of us might be OK with a "quirky" interface to start with. Especially if you can control it via computer too. I don't think it's a matter of "quirky"; it's a matter of intuitiveness. Why design two interfaces? The less-intuitive one won't necessarily be quicker to market and only make more work on the staff as the customers who have more money than brains (the ones who couldn't figure out the UMC-1 menus) can't figure out why their room sounds like crap as well as make the more-intuitive interface take twice as long to get to market. I think this is another "lessons learned" from the UMC-1: make it one-button implementation. I think you missed my point - the implication was the "less intuitive" (which to me = quirky) one is already in place and thus does not need to be separately designed as it were. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Sept 3, 2012 11:08:54 GMT -5
It is not that TacT is not working. As stated, the user interface is not (intuitive) user friendly enough for the likes of the majority of those expected to purchase the XMC-1. So, they need to go back to the drawing board and make some changes. Getting that and final testings done might delay the XMC-1 to the 1Q of 2013. So I'm not expecting the bugginess of the UMC-1 release. But I feel that Emo should take the additional time to release the product that was advertised. Not an approximation. I hate it when I can't rebut criticisms of my components. If it is actually working on the XMC-1 itself I really think it should have been demoed - once set up (funny interface or via the PC or whatever) I would think it should be simple enough to switch between on and off to at least let folks hear the difference and show it has been implemented in the unit. That was the TacT demo in the 2-channel room. There's so much that Big Dan (right or wrong) wanted to go over on the XMC-1 that doing a TacT demonstration would not fit in the allotted window of time that they had. Plus, with an interface that was not fully ported to hardware, you can easily get a run-time error and crash the system. I think it was a wise decision not to have a "Bill Gates" moment and have the XMC-1 crash while doing the demonstration. People would really be howling then, wouldn't they!?! |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Sept 3, 2012 11:10:53 GMT -5
I don't think it's a matter of "quirky"; it's a matter of intuitiveness. Why design two interfaces? The less-intuitive one won't necessarily be quicker to market and only make more work on the staff as the customers who have more money than brains (the ones who couldn't figure out the UMC-1 menus) can't figure out why their room sounds like crap as well as make the more-intuitive interface take twice as long to get to market. I think this is another "lessons learned" from the UMC-1: make it one-button implementation. I think you missed my point - the implication was the "less intuitive" (which to me = quirky) one is already in place and thus does not need to be separately designed as it were. I don't think you understand... neither are ready right now. There's one in place on the TacT 2.2 system that was demo'd in the 2-channel room but an interface does not exist for the XMC-1 at this moment in time. |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Sept 3, 2012 11:16:48 GMT -5
Well I wouldn't describe it as "implemented on the unit" then if it's not ready (working).  I would describe it as still a work in progress. |
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Post by suffolk112000 on Sept 3, 2012 11:26:26 GMT -5
Maybe in the next few days Dan and the folks at Emotiva will post some sort of final clarification update as to the intentions of what will happen re: the XMC-1 and the other soon to be released products. I'm hearing conflicting messages as to what the immediate future/direction the XMC-1 will be.
Maybe a sort of Emofest wrap-up podcast pod cast is in order.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 3, 2012 11:36:22 GMT -5
"We shall sell no wine before it's time!" is I believe their official position.
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PrtacticalPrpr
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Retrying Emotiva Fandom - Upgraded unused XMc-1 to RMC-1. CHere's to bliss.
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Post by PrtacticalPrpr on Sept 3, 2012 11:39:08 GMT -5
Admitted newbie. I found Emotiva from the Klipsch forums only 2 weeks ago. Despite the UMC-1 complaints, I decided to check it out for myself and talked the wife into taking the weekend and making a family road trip out of it for the Labor day weekend. Some of you that were there might have noticed our three sons with our pure white, blue eyed Siberian Husky; so it truly was a full family affair. So why was I motivated to take this trip? To drive over 500 miles round trip to go to an event at a company I had never heard of a week before? Add to that I learned from my kids that EmoFest meant I was dragging them to a Goth Festival. I guess Emo is the new kids term for Goth. (huh?) I told them they were bad and we were replacing their wardrobes and there was a discount for attendees. Had them for a second while they thought about what they could have possibly done wrong. :-) Seriously though, I have owned the Klipsch THX Ultra II 7.2 speaker system since 2005 and love them, but never felt like I could replicate the Klipsch demo room. I actually got them direct from Klipsch and listened to them at their headquarters. When I make an investment like this, I like to get answers to my questions direct from the manufacturer and hands on demos and that was part of the appeal for me towards attending EmoFest. I couldn't be happier with the decision to attend. Although we didn't come as far as Sweden, which there were actually two attendees there who did, it was still a four and half hour drive..., with the family dog (but he's great in the car) each way... First, I was impressed from the Tech Day demo's, which my 14 year old son sat through patiently, earning himself a set of the new stealth earbuds when they are released next year, but also with the depth of information provided, the staff, the event, the community and most importantly, with the Products and investment in resources and quality. I ended up with a placeholder for the XMC-1 and got started with the following: UMC-1 x1 UPA-2 x1 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) UPA-200 x3 CMX-2 x2 XIEC 4m x5 XDRCA .5 x2 XDRCA 1m x4 XDRCA 2m x2 USS 6m x8 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) Left feeling like my money was well spent, and I saved by my estimates over 50% off of Retail by attending, and have a 40% discount card toward my XMC-1! So drove through the rain most of the way, but got home safely at 11:15 pm EST and set everything up in the HT and got to bed at 2:30. Too late to test, but just late enough to get up feeling like a 6 year old on Christmas morning.  All in all, a great and highly recommended experience. When we were leaving and our three sons timidly asked if we were going to come back to this "thing" next year, I shamefully admit my first thought was; oh great, here it comes. What are they going to complain about first? "Why", I hesitantly asked, did they want to know? My wife and I were actually more than shocked when they all said at the same time they wanted to come back and they actually had a lot of fun! My boys won two of the kids prizes in the raffle which were the marshmellow guns and they are 10, 11, and 14 and are not easily entertained. So the bottom line is, EmoFest made Dad the Hero for the weekend. Who'd-a-thought? So I am a super happy camper, about to watch Thor in 3D on our 120" screen and looking forward to learning all the features of our new Emotiva setup. Special thanks to Mark for his excellelent write up, all the hospitality of the communty and mostly to Dan and Cathy, their family and staff for their dedication to bringing, quality, top shelf audio and HT experiences to the masses at affordable prices. For the record, I will be buying a XMC-1 the first day and have enough experience to room correct on my own, but definately will look forward to the update that adds it. Side note for Mark, I am in N. KY. We should grab lunch some time. Looking forward to now being a part of Emotiva family and attending again next year! Jeremy and Family (Husky included) |
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jamrock
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Post by jamrock on Sept 3, 2012 11:50:51 GMT -5
Great first experience. Great purchases. Great first post and a great welcome to you and your family too. You'll find that Emotiva is a great company with a great forum. Again, Welcome ;D
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Post by geebo on Sept 3, 2012 12:06:16 GMT -5
Admitted newbie. I found Emotiva from the Klipsch forums only 2 weeks ago. Despite the UMC-1 complaints, I decided to check it out for myself and talked the wife into taking the weekend and making a family road trip out of it for the Labor day weekend. Some of you that were there might have noticed our three sons with our pure white, blue eyed Siberian Husky; so it truly was a full family affair. So why was I motivated to take this trip? To drive over 500 miles round trip to go to an event at a company I had never heard of a week before? Add to that I learned from my kids that EmoFest meant I was dragging them to a Goth Festival. I guess Emo is the new kids term for Goth. (huh?) I told them they were bad and we were replacing their wardrobes and there was a discount for attendees. Had them for a second while they thought about what they could have possibly done wrong. :-) Seriously though, I have owned the Klipsch THX Ultra II 7.2 speaker system since 2005 and love them, but never felt like I could replicate the Klipsch demo room. I actually got them direct from Klipsch and listened to them at their headquarters. When I make an investment like this, I like to get answers to my questions direct from the manufacturer and hands on demos and that was part of the appeal for me towards attending EmoFest. I couldn't be happier with the decision to attend. Although we didn't come as far as Sweden, which there were actually two attendees there who did, it was still a four and half hour drive..., with the family dog (but he's great in the car) each way... First, I was impressed from the Tech Day demo's, which my 14 year old son sat through patiently, earning himself a set of the new stealth earbuds when they are released next year, but also with the depth of information provided, the staff, the event, the community and most importantly, with the Products and investment in resources and quality. I ended up with a placeholder for the XMC-1 and got started with the following: UMC-1 x1 UPA-2 x1 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) UPA-200 x3 CMX-2 x2 XIEC 4m x5 XDRCA .5 x2 XDRCA 1m x4 XDRCA 2m x2 USS 6m x8 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) Left feeling like my money was well spent, and I saved by my estimates over 50% off of Retail by attending, and have a 40% discount card toward my XMC-1! So drove through the rain most of the way, but got home safely at 11:15 pm EST and set everything up in the HT and got to bed at 2:30. Too late to test, but just late enough to get up feeling like a 6 year old on Christmas morning. All in all, a great and highly recommended experience. When we were leaving and our three sons timidly asked if we were going to come back to this "thing" next year, I shamefully admit my first thought was; oh great, here it comes. What are they going to complain about first? "Why", I hesitantly asked, did they want to know? My wife and I were actually more than shocked when they all said at the same time they wanted to come back and they actually had a lot of fun! My boys won two of the kids prizes in the raffle which were the marshmellow guns and they are 10, 11, and 14 and are not easily entertained. So the bottom line is, EmoFest made Dad the Hero for the weekend. Who'd-a-thought? So I am a super happy camper, about to watch Thor in 3D on our 120" screen and looking forward to learning all the features of our new Emotiva setup. Special thanks to Mark for his excellelent write up, all the hospitality of the communty and mostly to Dan and Cathy, their family and staff for their dedication to bringing, quality, top shelf audio and HT experiences to the masses at affordable prices. For the record, I will be buying a XMC-1 the first day and have enough experience to room correct on my own, but definately will look forward to the update that adds it. Side note for Mark, I am in N. KY. We should grab lunch some time. Looking forward to now being a part of Emotiva family and attending again next year! Jeremy and Family (Husky included) Welcome to the Emo family, Jeremy. My wife loved the Husky (as she does all animals) even though he got some paw prints on her new T-shirt. But Emo gave her another nw one so she got two shirts out of the deal. ;D Be sure to let us know how you like all the gear when you get it hooked up. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 12:26:13 GMT -5
> If TacT is actually working on the XMC-1 itself I really think it should have been demoed
The XMC-1 is a computer, with some video and audio hardware attached. But hardware is relatively easy to develop. The smarts is in the software.
The XMC-1 computer takes software to run; video software, audio software, firmware updating software, bass management software, equalizing software, and control software to tie it all together. On projects like this software is always the problem. It always takes longer than you expect (man-years), is buggier, must be done by small teams (you can't speed it up by throwing more bodies at it), if you subcontracted it to outside experts, you are at their mercy and subcontractors always lie.
Likely the XMC-1 hardware has been done for a year, but they are just now getting the software stable. this is normal for projects like this; it always take longer than you expect. And the XMC-1 has a different CPU, so the UMC-1 software probably isn't directly portable (which is probably a good thing...). Don't forget it took Macrosloth a decade to finally produce a usable, stable Windows and they had unlimited development funds...
TacT is being provided by a subcontractor, the TacT people. They can't even begin to start to implement their software, until they have some XMC-1 boxes running stable software delivered to the TacT labs. We know from EMOfest that stable software has just become available; so Tact must just be getting their first stable EMC-1s. It's no surprise that TacT will be delayed.
But TacT is a highly regarded company with a proven product. Certainly they would have overviewed the XMC-1 hardware and software for viability, before ever agreeing to do it. So TacT delay is understandable and I have every confidence it will work.
Please understand I have no inside knowledge of EMO or TacT, just what I read here. But I do have experiance with these sort of software projects.
Sincerely
/b
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Post by chaosrv on Sept 3, 2012 12:54:48 GMT -5
Welcome to the family and congrats on all the new purchases. I am sure you know this already but I can't help myself: The UMC-1 cannot handle 3D so be sure to have a second video connection from your source to the projector. Admitted newbie. I found Emotiva from the Klipsch forums only 2 weeks ago. Despite the UMC-1 complaints, I decided to check it out for myself and talked the wife into taking the weekend and making a family road trip out of it for the Labor day weekend. Some of you that were there might have noticed our three sons with our pure white, blue eyed Siberian Husky; so it truly was a full family affair. So why was I motivated to take this trip? To drive over 500 miles round trip to go to an event at a company I had never heard of a week before? Add to that I learned from my kids that EmoFest meant I was dragging them to a Goth Festival. I guess Emo is the new kids term for Goth. (huh?) I told them they were bad and we were replacing their wardrobes and there was a discount for attendees. Had them for a second while they thought about what they could have possibly done wrong. :-) Seriously though, I have owned the Klipsch THX Ultra II 7.2 speaker system since 2005 and love them, but never felt like I could replicate the Klipsch demo room. I actually got them direct from Klipsch and listened to them at their headquarters. When I make an investment like this, I like to get answers to my questions direct from the manufacturer and hands on demos and that was part of the appeal for me towards attending EmoFest. I couldn't be happier with the decision to attend. Although we didn't come as far as Sweden, which there were actually two attendees there who did, it was still a four and half hour drive..., with the family dog (but he's great in the car) each way... First, I was impressed from the Tech Day demo's, which my 14 year old son sat through patiently, earning himself a set of the new stealth earbuds when they are released next year, but also with the depth of information provided, the staff, the event, the community and most importantly, with the Products and investment in resources and quality. I ended up with a placeholder for the XMC-1 and got started with the following: UMC-1 x1 UPA-2 x1 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) UPA-200 x3 CMX-2 x2 XIEC 4m x5 XDRCA .5 x2 XDRCA 1m x4 XDRCA 2m x2 USS 6m x8 (Wounded Warrior charity: Area51) Left feeling like my money was well spent, and I saved by my estimates over 50% off of Retail by attending, and have a 40% discount card toward my XMC-1! So drove through the rain most of the way, but got home safely at 11:15 pm EST and set everything up in the HT and got to bed at 2:30. Too late to test, but just late enough to get up feeling like a 6 year old on Christmas morning. All in all, a great and highly recommended experience. When we were leaving and our three sons timidly asked if we were going to come back to this "thing" next year, I shamefully admit my first thought was; oh great, here it comes. What are they going to complain about first? "Why", I hesitantly asked, did they want to know? My wife and I were actually more than shocked when they all said at the same time they wanted to come back and they actually had a lot of fun! My boys won two of the kids prizes in the raffle which were the marshmellow guns and they are 10, 11, and 14 and are not easily entertained. So the bottom line is, EmoFest made Dad the Hero for the weekend. Who'd-a-thought? So I am a super happy camper, about to watch Thor in 3D on our 120" screen and looking forward to learning all the features of our new Emotiva setup. Special thanks to Mark for his excellelent write up, all the hospitality of the communty and mostly to Dan and Cathy, their family and staff for their dedication to bringing, quality, top shelf audio and HT experiences to the masses at affordable prices. For the record, I will be buying a XMC-1 the first day and have enough experience to room correct on my own, but definately will look forward to the update that adds it. Side note for Mark, I am in N. KY. We should grab lunch some time. Looking forward to now being a part of Emotiva family and attending again next year! Jeremy and Family (Husky included) |
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Post by rogersch on Sept 3, 2012 13:52:47 GMT -5
Have you submitted a bug report to AMD? Maybe they will fix it, that would be the best outcome. A lot of people have already done this. Even top developers working on OpenElec and XMBC.... |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 3, 2012 14:13:19 GMT -5
ceodad/jeremy - welcome to the forum! Glad to have another Greater Cincy person on the forum. We should plan a Cincy-area listening party for the XMC once it arrives. I'll be getting one!
Thanks again to everyone from Emotiva and all the great guests I got to meet for a great weekend!
Mark
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 3, 2012 14:18:37 GMT -5
Maybe in the next few days Dan and the folks at Emotiva will post some sort of final clarification update as to the intentions of what will happen re: the XMC-1 and the other soon to be released products. I'm hearing conflicting messages as to what the immediate future/direction the XMC-1 will be. Maybe a sort of Emofest wrap-up podcast pod cast is in order. I'm sure Emotiva will find some time to do what you've suggested in a podcast. I will say that CEDIA 2012 is Sept 5-8 and Dan & Lonnie will be there as the Sherbourn exhibitor, as well as Lonnie having more trips in the very near future to China, and the Laufman's have their daughter, Jessica's wedding to be preparing for, so lets be patient and allow them to catch their breath from EmoFest and their very busy upcoming schedule.  |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Sept 3, 2012 15:03:03 GMT -5
Thanks to all for their expression of thanks for my note-taking. FYI, one more piece of news I forgot...according to what I was told, the "UMC-1 40% discount coupon WILL be applicable to ALL new pre/pros". Mark, thank YOU!! Now, ALL new pre-pros?  Say, I buy a UMC-1 ($500) now and a RMC-1 (say $3,000) in a year or so, and only pay $1,800?  |
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