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Post by garbulky on Nov 14, 2019 0:36:29 GMT -5
I'm on mobile so I can't see what you have now, but check out Vinyl Nirvana. He restores old AR decks to new condition. Supposedly they sound great. Schiits table is close to rerelease. They are going to offer a cartridge option now. I happen to know a gentleman that does custom modded acoustic research tone arms. He knows his way around a turntable! Unfortunately there's no way I could afford them. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 14, 2019 9:12:08 GMT -5
If our "gentleman" would show us how to do it, I'd be happy to help you mod an AR table, garbulky! In fact, I think I still have his instructions on how to do that somewhere in my document archives. The only actual "mod" that I remember is changing the tone arm mounting so it will accept non-AR tonearms. In fact, I ran my modified AR table with an Infinity Black Widow unipivot arm. Sounded AMAZING! Of course, the Denon 103S cartridge and step-up transformers didn't hurt either... |
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Post by geeqner on Nov 14, 2019 9:49:52 GMT -5
If you guys are somewhat "handy" (or at least, it makes for a little interesting reading):
Search for the "Merrill Scillia" and "Turntable":
-George Merrill was known for some modifications that could take an old, "plain-Jane" AR Model XA or XB to new heights.
(And even though those old ARs LOOK chunky and clunky - they were and still are no slouches in the Audio Performance category to begin with)
The mods included improvements to the suspension and various dampening materials in order to minimize resonance in several key areas
There were several levels of improvements, so that one could do the easy ones that would have the most impact FIRST, and then add others later.
(so that one did not have to buy the whole banana at once...)
Their products / mods were more about "form follows FUNCTION" than creating those multiple stacks of CNC-machined functional artwork that make-up many of today's high-end TT units.
Over the years, they even released / attempted to produce new turntables (look-up the "MS21")
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Post by garbulky on Nov 14, 2019 10:02:48 GMT -5
If our "gentleman" would show us how to do it, I'd be happy to help you mod an AR table, garbulky! In fact, I think I still have his instructions on how to do that somewhere in my document archives. The only actual "mod" that I remember is changing the tone arm mounting so it will accept non-AR tonearms. In fact, I ran my modified AR table with an Infinity Black Widow unipivot arm. Sounded AMAZING! Of course, the Denon 103S cartridge and step-up transformers didn't hurt either... Oh I don't think I'd know enough to appreciate turntable customization. I'd be happy to get help with basic things like cartridge alignment because that's what a newbie I am to TT's! |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 14, 2019 10:03:11 GMT -5
If you guys are somewhat "handy" (or at least, it makes for a little interesting reading): Search for the "Merrill Scillia" and "Turntable": -George Merrill was known for some modifications that could take an old, "plain-Jane" AR Model XA or XB to new heights. (And even though those old ARs LOOK chunky and clunky - they were and still are no slouches in the Audio Performance category to begin with) The mods included improvements to the suspension and various dampening materials in order to minimize resonance in several key areas There were several levels of improvements, so that one could do the easy ones that would have the most impact FIRST, and then add others later. (so that one did not have to buy the whole banana at once...) Their products / mods were more about "form follows FUNCTION" than creating those multiple stacks of CNC-machined functional artwork that make-up many of today's high-end TT units. Over the years, they even released / attempted to produce new turntables (look-up the "MS21") Yeah not handy at all, unfortunately. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Nov 14, 2019 11:01:22 GMT -5
The old AR-XA and AR-XB actually performed extremely well without any modifications. (I owned one of each - back in the day.)
Their suspension was incredibly resistant to vibration (one of their demos showed someone driving nails into the base of one while a record was playing). However, they were very sensitive to slow rocking movements, like the flexing of a floor as you walked across the room. (So they worked best when set on a solid base on a cement or other very solid floor.)
The tonearm wasn't great - but it was adequate.
Even manual cuing was considered a luxury that you only got on the better model and real wood veneer was an optional extra.
And they took several seconds to reach operating speed once you switched the motor on.
(And, yeah, the dust cover wasn't hinged either.)
However, they combined a very soft suspension, a very heavy platter, and a relatively small motor... The result was wow & flutter specs, and rumble measurements, that few modern turntables can even come close to... (And the rotational speed of their non-adjustable motor was always pretty much spot-on.)
Unfortunately, if you find one today, it's not likely to be in very good shape.
If you guys are somewhat "handy" (or at least, it makes for a little interesting reading): Search for the "Merrill Scillia" and "Turntable": -George Merrill was known for some modifications that could take an old, "plain-Jane" AR Model XA or XB to new heights. (And even though those old ARs LOOK chunky and clunky - they were and still are no slouches in the Audio Performance category to begin with) The mods included improvements to the suspension and various dampening materials in order to minimize resonance in several key areas There were several levels of improvements, so that one could do the easy ones that would have the most impact FIRST, and then add others later. (so that one did not have to buy the whole banana at once...) Their products / mods were more about "form follows FUNCTION" than creating those multiple stacks of CNC-machined functional artwork that make-up many of today's high-end TT units. Over the years, they even released / attempted to produce new turntables (look-up the "MS21") Yeah not handy at all, unfortunately. |
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Post by geeqner on Nov 14, 2019 13:10:10 GMT -5
The old AR-XA and AR-XB actually performed extremely well without any modifications. (I owned one of each - back in the day.)
Their suspension was incredibly resistant to vibration (one of their demos showed someone driving nails into the base of one while a record was playing). However, they were very sensitive to slow rocking movements, like the flexing of a floor as you walked across the room. (So they worked best when set on a solid base on a cement or other very solid floor.)
The tonearm wasn't great - but it was adequate.
Even manual cuing was considered a luxury that you only got on the better model and real wood veneer was an optional extra.
And they took several seconds to reach operating speed once you switched the motor on.
(And, yeah, the dust cover wasn't hinged either.)
However, they combined a very soft suspension, a very heavy platter, and a relatively small motor... The result was wow & flutter specs, and rumble measurements, that few modern turntables can even come close to... (And the rotational speed of their non-adjustable motor was always pretty much spot-on.)
Unfortunately, if you find one today, it's not likely to be in very good shape Yep - I've still got the more modern version (When AR was owned by Teledyne "The Turntable") -Suspension, bearing, & Platter nearly identical to old ones (Outer Platter has sloping sides instead of square-edged) -Modular Tonearm Mounting Board -Improved (Gelco / Mission?) Straight, low-mass Tonearm -Hinged Acrylic Dust Cover -Rounded top & bottom edges on Plinth with nice (teak?) Veneer I'll have to post some pics next time I set it up (Working with Herb on "New to ME" FET-9 Pre-Amp - should have SUBSTANTIALLY improved phono section over ANYTHING that I've used in the past [She's still "purty" but due for replacement on the Electrolytic Capacitors and adjustment to Power Supply Voltage.] =ALL FET signal path, Nelson Pass design / should really make that Shure Cartridge "sing"!....) |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 14, 2019 14:17:55 GMT -5
Yeah not handy at all, unfortunately. But he's definitely getting BETTER! |
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Post by donh50 on Nov 14, 2019 14:55:13 GMT -5
My old AR (don't remember which model) has a Magnepan Unipivot arm on it, replacing the Grace arm it came with. I actually never had the stock arm on it... It was (is, but been in storage for years) a great TT, decent competitor to the Linn at the time, and comparable to the pricier Thorens I also auditioned. I did build an isolation platform using old mattress springs as it was on the second floor of an old, old house and would otherwise skip when my Grandmother stomped into the room to tell me to turn it down (college days).
My main preamp at the time was an ARC SP3a1, though I had several others (DIY and commercial) to play with back then.
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Post by geeqner on Nov 14, 2019 16:48:21 GMT -5
That's funny -
One of the main selling points for my upgrading to the AR in the 1980s was:
When my family was watching TV, I often preferred to listen to music (somewhat loud) on my headphones.
My stereo cabinet was in the Family Room - off to the side of the TV.
When I was "in the zone" and they wanted to get my attention - they would throw coasters made from old carpet squares at me.
Anyway, I come from a family of LARGE people and when they would walk-by, my old Zenith Automatic Record Changer would often skip.
Replacing it with the AR was a VAST improvement (my family thought that I was crazy for spending almost $400 on sale for it and it didn't even include a Cartridge)
We tried the "mallet trick":
With a less-than-favorite album playing at tracking force of about 1.5 grams - you could smack the plinth with a chunk of wood / whatever and the thing would not skip.
If it ever gets a permanent home where I can place it, I plan to use a "Dynamic Stabilizer" (otherwise known as placing it on top of a H-E-A-V-Y chunk of granite or metal, on top of some foam-backed carpet or mat to keep it from resonating)
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Post by garbulky on Dec 10, 2019 10:30:46 GMT -5
Y'all..... how bada$$ is that golden eagle armor?!
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Post by geeqner on Dec 10, 2019 11:06:47 GMT -5
FINALLY got around to posting some pics of MY AR TT: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1013059/threadIt has a MUCH more modern Tonearm The Plinth is clad in a nice veneer with radiused edges And the Platter has sloped edges that are nicely finished But underneath - it is still essentially the same spring-suspension and belt-drive motor / bearing setup as the Old-School AR XA / XB Gar - if you look-around and are patient, you should be able to find something akin to this for not-a-ton of moolah This was not the TT's "permanent home". I brought it out and plugged it in, temporarily, on our Entertainment Center, in order to test the Phono Input on a new-to-me Threshold Pre-Amp. (THAT mission was a success.) |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Dec 10, 2019 11:57:25 GMT -5
I cannot get enough of Gal Gadot
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Post by garbulky on Dec 10, 2019 13:12:16 GMT -5
FINALLY got around to posting some pics of MY AR TT: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1013059/threadIt has a MUCH more modern Tonearm The Plinth is clad in a nice veneer with radiused edges And the Platter has sloped edges that are nicely finished But underneath - it is still essentially the same spring-suspension and belt-drive motor / bearing setup as the Old-School AR XA / XB Gar - if you look-around and are patient, you should be able to find something akin to this for not-a-ton of moolah This was not the TT's "permanent home". I brought it out and plugged it in, temporarily, on our Entertainment Center, in order to test the Phono Input on a new-to-me Threshold Pre-Amp. (THAT mission was a success.) Just beautiful! Thanks for letting me know |
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Post by geeqner on Dec 10, 2019 13:23:14 GMT -5
Yeah -
The new Preamp that is on-loan with intention to purchase has a slight, intermittent "hiss" that pops-up during certain types of sounds and then goes away
On an "annoyance scale" of 1-10 with 1 being minor - I'd rate it a solid "2" (but it's definitely there)
However, even a quick-and-dirty test reveals that the Phono Stage of this Pre is far and away THE BEST that I have ever heard on my system.
The highs have more sparkle, there is better balance within the full sound spectrum, and the bass has more punch / attack when called-upon.
It is from about the same era as my Turntable and would have cost significant money in the late-1980s.
If I can fix the hiss / get it fixed - this one is going to force me to re-listen to all of my Vinyl.
(The good aspects of CD and streamed sources also sound better than before - but not to the extent that the Phono stuff does...)
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Post by garbulky on Feb 14, 2020 1:20:15 GMT -5
-Tempted by the Amazon echo earbud deal for valentines day.
-Dissapointed that Samsung's "The Wall" MicroLED models under 100 inches are not 4k ? Hopefully that changes. My goal is for about 75-80 inches with a lot more brightness than an OLED but keeping the same blacks.
- Got Ford v Ferrari on 4k UHD. Haven't watched it yet.
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Post by garbulky on May 5, 2020 8:11:43 GMT -5
This isn't the first time, but I really have to give a shout out to the Bas-x A-100 in direct drive and the HD-700. Listening to acoustic performances of very large choirs really shows off the near unlimited power of the headphone amp section. Huge lightning fast sound. Can't believe I paid so little for it! The HD-700 really complements the amp too. The HD600 hits its dynamic limits on these powerful volume swings, while the HD700 can handle a wider dynamic swing without muddying things up. Can't wait to hear what the HD800S is capable of with its larger driver.
If you got the bas-x a-100, try it out with these. Remember to crank it up!
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Post by garbulky on May 25, 2020 17:53:59 GMT -5
Did The Analogues ever actually meet the Beatles?
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Post by garbulky on May 28, 2020 14:20:35 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on May 29, 2020 4:01:51 GMT -5
It's easy to understimate how much room treatment is really needed for a room. Those are NOT "rooms," they are recording studios. The requirements for a playback room are half or less the requirements for a recording studio. Yes, you CAN treat a listening room as you would a recording studio, but at GREAT expense, and for no gain or even some sound-quality reduction over what a far more lightly-treated listening room would provide. Remember that GIK (whose graphics you're using) is in the business of selling room treatments. Their recommendations always ( always) lean toward the side that allows them to sell far, far more room treatment than is necessary (or advisable) in order to maximize their profit. Obsessive room treatment leads to over damped, dead-sounding listening spaces that then require far more power to produce a suitable listening level. The majority of loudspeakers were designed with the expectation that they will be used in untreated (or very lightly treated) rooms. The "voicing" of those speakers is done with the expectation that the room sound of the user's venue will contribute to the listening experience. When the user opts to undo the designer's intention by playing the speakers in what amounts to a home anechoic chamber, the result is far from what the designer intended. Some room treatment? Yes. But never, never overdo it! And so my conclusion is that if is far EASIER to OVERESTIMATE how much room treatment is really needed. I know, garbulky, that you strongly disagree with what I've just said. But may I point out that you once claimed that massive power was a necessity for good sound (until you heard my 12-watt Heathkits). You also claimed that only "heavy-iron" conventional power supplies could produce good sound (until you heard my Emotiva PA-1 amps). And you may even find a few specific examples of rooms that could be helped by additional room treatments (yours, because of its asymmetry and mine because of its overly reflective nature), but in general I think that the comments I've made above in this post are accurate for the vast majority of audio enthusiasts. Too little room treatment is usually better than too much. |
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