DC-1

[milt7350]

Oct 17, 2013 9:35:19 GMT -5 jeffnyc said:

Would appreciate thoughts on some options I'm considering (for Magnepan 1.7, all music from Mac):

1) USP-1, Music Fidelity VDAC II (more flexible for upgrading DAC and other components in the future?)
or
2) DC-1 (more direct?)

I have Sherbourn Pre-1 with the previous generation V-DAC not V-DAC II (which should be better), Pre-1 improves the sound quite a bit. I actually look for DC-1 to further improve SQ and may hopefully dispense with Pre-1 and V-DAC.

[milt7350]

One question I have is that the DC-1 only weighs 2.2 lbs vs XDA-2 which weighs 10 lbs. I think DC-1 is a superior product but what part of XDA-2 make it weigh so much more?

[garbulky]

Oct 17, 2013 11:10:16 GMT -5 @bmoney said:

Oct 17, 2013 10:18:47 GMT -5 garbulky said:

I've never heard the vdac. But if you get the DC-1, I think the USP-1 may be a limiter for it.
This may help you
emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33501/garbulkys-review-love-female-voice
In terms of upgrading from the XDA-1 I posted:
"Let’s put it this way.
I have the XDA-1 and use it with the UPA-2. I’ve used it with a passive pre-amp to get over the digital volume control.
I used it with the USP-1 and an XPA-2. That right there is over a thousand dollars of equipment connected to it and it showed. The XPA-2 was really fast.
The DC-1 connected just to the UPA-2 bought more of an improvement than using the USP-1 and XPA-2.
That’s how good the DC-1 is.
It’s the best sound I have heard yet. At $700 one has to get a bit critical. But it’s hard. Let’s just say it’s not perfection or the ultimate DAC. But it’s worth the money and I can see it’s real selling price at being around $1300. It’s better than the XDA-1 by a significant margin. I am PICKY about my sound. And right now the DC-1 is not leaving the system until it has to. I can’t say the same about other stuff that I liked. "

just an FYI while speaking with Chad in Emo tech support (I think that was his name) he said the USP-1 would definitley NOT be a limiter for the DC-1...I am hoping he is correct

I hope so too. I haven't connected the USP-1 to the DC-1 but I have tried it with the XDA-1. And don't get me wrong the USP-1 is FANTASTIC in dynamics it lacks that last bit of transparency that the XDA-1 was able to deliver via the passive pre-amp to the amplifier. (The soundstage stayed between the speakers and lacked some top-end treble presence). Since I found the DC-1 to be more transparent than the XDA-1 that's why I was wondering. I can't say for sure until I actually hear the DC-1 coupled to the USP-1. So it's possible I guess, but I have some reservations.

On another note:
Could you tell this gentlemen your impressions of the UCA202 and whether you think it would be better than his apple computers inbuilt soundcard?
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/575247/thread

[garbulky]

Oct 17, 2013 11:17:20 GMT -5 milt7350 said:

One question I have is that the DC-1 only weighs 2.2 lbs vs XDA-2 which weighs 10 lbs. I think DC-1 is a superior product but what part of XDA-2 make it weigh so much more?

It's the sexiness.
Ummm, I'm not sure to be honest. Probably the large metal chassis. I think the DAC component card is also larger.

[milt7350]

The metal chasis is definitely a factor. There is a lot of empty space between the transformer in XDA-2 and other components. But in DC-1, everything seems to be so cramped together, that may not be as good as the way XDA-2 is.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2013 11:29:09 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Oct 17, 2013 11:10:16 GMT -5 @bmoney said:

just an FYI while speaking with Chad in Emo tech support (I think that was his name) he said the USP-1 would definitley NOT be a limiter for the DC-1...I am hoping he is correct

I hope so too. I haven't connected the USP-1 to the DC-1 but I have tried it with the XDA-1. And don't get me wrong the USP-1 is FANTASTIC in dynamics it lacks that last bit of transparency that the XDA-1 was able to deliver via the passive pre-amp to the amplifier. (The soundstage stayed between the speakers and lacked some top-end treble presence). Since I found the DC-1 to be more transparent than the XDA-1 that's why I was wondering. I can't say for sure until I actually hear the DC-1 coupled to the USP-1. So it's possible I guess, but I have some reservations.

On another note:
Could you tell this gentlemen your impressions of the UCA202 and whether you think it would be better than his apple computers inbuilt soundcard?
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/575247/thread

already done

when the dc-1 comes in I am going to compare not only the xda2 with it (through the USP-1) but also with the XDA2 and the DC1 both directly to the xpa-5

ill report back my findings...any recommendations for music tracks to try? this way you will be familiar with what I am referring to with the comparisons

[garbulky]

Oct 17, 2013 11:56:24 GMT -5 @bmoney said:

Oct 17, 2013 11:29:09 GMT -5 garbulky said:

I hope so too. I haven't connected the USP-1 to the DC-1 but I have tried it with the XDA-1. And don't get me wrong the USP-1 is FANTASTIC in dynamics it lacks that last bit of transparency that the XDA-1 was able to deliver via the passive pre-amp to the amplifier. (The soundstage stayed between the speakers and lacked some top-end treble presence). Since I found the DC-1 to be more transparent than the XDA-1 that's why I was wondering. I can't say for sure until I actually hear the DC-1 coupled to the USP-1. So it's possible I guess, but I have some reservations.

On another note:
Could you tell this gentlemen your impressions of the UCA202 and whether you think it would be better than his apple computers inbuilt soundcard?
emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/575247/thread

already done

when the dc-1 comes in I am going to compare not only the xda2 with it (through the USP-1) but also with the XDA2 and the DC1 both directly to the xpa-5

ill report back my findings...any recommendations for music tracks to try? this way you will be familiar with what I am referring to with the comparisons

Sure, I'll PM you. Thanks for posting btw

[GreenKiwi]

@bmoney another testing option you can do is XDA-2 into DC-1 analog input --> XPA-2 For easy switching.

[Deleted]

Oct 17, 2013 12:30:14 GMT -5 GreenKiwi said:

@bmoney another testing option you can do is XDA-2 into DC-1 analog input --> XPA-2 For easy switching.

good call thanks!

[GreenKiwi]

And you can level match with the XDA-2 volume control...

[tjhenry]

Thanks for the link to the comparisons jlafrenz did with the DC-1. When I saw the DC-1 price drop for the holiday sale, I immediately bought one. I need to update my signature, I traded the Benchmark DAC1 for the XDA-2 because the performance was so close between the 2 DACs. When I receive the DC-1, I'll compare it to my XDA-2 and post my thoughts. I'm sure my findings will be similar to those already posted.

I always have this nagging need to know how good a value my purchase was. If the DC-1 is better than the XDA-2 then I know the DC-1 is at least as good (if not better) than the DAC1. But, it's been a while since I heard the DAC1 and I'm considering trying a higher priced DAC so I can compare it against the DC-1. Will my OCD win??

[bobpensik]

Oct 17, 2013 12:54:49 GMT -5 tjhenry said:

Thanks for the link to the comparisons jlafrenz did with the DC-1. When I saw the DC-1 price drop for the holiday sale, I immediately bought one. I need to update my signature, I traded the Benchmark DAC1 for the XDA-2 because the performance was so close between the 2 DACs. When I receive the DC-1, I'll compare it to my XDA-2 and post my thoughts. I'm sure my findings will be similar to those already posted.

I always have this nagging need to know how good a value my purchase was. If the DC-1 is better than the XDA-2 then I know the DC-1 is at least as good (if not better) than the DAC1. But, it's been a while since I heard the DAC1 and I'm considering trying a higher priced DAC so I can compare it against the DC-1. Will my OCD win??

I'm curious to see how you rate the DC-1 against the DAC1.

I'd love to hear how the DC-1 compares to the DAC2 as well.

[tjhenry]

Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't have the Benchmark DAC1 anymore. I sold it when I got the XDA-2. Now I wish I still had it so I could compare the DC-1 to the DAC1 directly. I can compare them indirectly since my impressions were that the DAC1 was slightly better than the XDA-2. So, if the DC-1 is better than the XDA-2, then I know the DC-1 is at least as good as the DAC1.

But, I would really like to have a "reference" DAC to compare the DC-1 against. Either a DAC1 or maybe even something pricier like jlafrenz's NAD M51 comparison. There was a guy selling a DC-1 that claimed it was better than the entire DAC1 series, including the DAC1 HDR. But, I'm dying to compare the DC-1 against something in my system.

[ews0899]

Hi All-

Received my DC-1 today replacing the Peachtree DacIt. Needless to say, it's night and day----the soundstage and dynamic of instruments are wide open and crystal clear. However, it's much different when using Mac>>DC1>>XPR2 and JRiver lossless files (DC1 as preamp). The music is lifeless and the low end of volume is flat and boring. Admittedly, I'm a newbie with lossless files and getting up to speed. I'm thinking my sound card on the Mac needs to be tweaked as the computer is less than 6 months old and pretty confident the sound card is up to date.

Waiting on my son to provide instruction on the Mac and lossless files. Question: The volume should be set to variable when using HD music files? Any information is appreciated.

Ed

[GreenKiwi]

Sorry, I'm missing what the two differences are that you're seeing where it is sounding lifeless?

You have a Mac with JRiver with lossless compared to iTunes on the mac? Both via DC1?

Or DC1-->XPR sound different than DC1-->Sherbourn Pre-1 --> XPR?

As for volume, you want any digital volume controls to be 70% or higher (assuming that they are 24 bit or higher and of good implementation (JRivers is a good implementation.) I believe that there are no volume controls directly on the DC-1 via the mac, the volume option is greyed out (at least for me). And the volume shouldn't really be any different that playing regular non HD music.

[KeithL]

I would encourage you NOT to make any assumptions about what constitutes "a reference DAC" these days. Times and technology change very rapidly.

I had the original Benchmark Dac1 (the first model), and to me it didn't even compare favorably to the XDA-1 (the XDA-1 seemed to be more open sounding, and had a wider sound stage). Since I find the XDA-2 better than the XDA-1, and the DC-1 is a large step above the XDA-2, that would put the old Benchmark at the back of the pack.

Note that the newer versions of the DAC1 had various "upgrades", including different op amps. The Benchmark DAC1 series all use Analog Devices DAC chips (which we find to deliver a nice neutral sound). We use a different Analog Devices DAC chip in the XDA-1, the XDA-2, and the DC-1 (also in slightly different configurations in each).

Interestingly, the new Benchmark DAC2 series use a different DAC chip altogether - the Sabre. I haven't heard one of the new Benchmark models, but in general we've found that the Sabre DAC chips sound somewhat less neutral. (They have a distinctive sound, which you may or may not like, but they are decidedly not neutral.) Personally, I find this to be an odd choice for Benchmark since, at least in the past, they have always championed absolute neutrality. (The way a DAC sounds depends a lot on the supporting circuitry, so theirs may not have the distinctive "Sabre sound", but it does make me wonder.)

I haven't heard the NAD M51 either, but I've heard mixed reviews about it as well; some people absolutely love it, but some reviews suggest that it also isn't especially neutral.

(In case it wasn't obvious, we always aim for absolute neutrality in the sound of our DACS; we believe that you should hear exactly what's there with as little alteration as possible.)

Oct 17, 2013 14:33:45 GMT -5 tjhenry said:

Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't have the Benchmark DAC1 anymore. I sold it when I got the XDA-2. Now I wish I still had it so I could compare the DC-1 to the DAC1 directly. I can compare them indirectly since my impressions were that the DAC1 was slightly better than the XDA-2. So, if the DC-1 is better than the XDA-2, then I know the DC-1 is at least as good as the DAC1.

But, I would really like to have a "reference" DAC to compare the DC-1 against. Either a DAC1 or maybe even something pricier like jlafrenz's NAD M51 comparison. There was a guy selling a DC-1 that claimed it was better than the entire DAC1 series, including the DAC1 HDR. But, I'm dying to compare the DC-1 against something in my system.

[KeithL]

If you're not using an analog preamp, the DC-1 is going to have the best volume control. The volume control on the DC-1 is a digitally controlled ANALOG stepped resistor network, and so doesn't sacrifice resolution when you turn it down. Technically ALL digital volume controls (including software ones) sacrifice resolution when you turn them down and so hurt the sound quality; although with some the damage is barely audible while with others it's pretty bad. You want to set the volume control on your player program, as well as the "main" software volume control on the computer, to maximum, and use the volume control on the DC-1 as your volume control.

If you are using the DC-1 with a preamp (which has a volume control), then you can either use the volume control on the DC-1 or set the volume control on the DC-1 to "Fixed" in the menu, and use the volume control on the preamp instead.

By default, Macs are configured to resample the audio to a fixed sample rate - which would be a problem with HD files (however, jRiver may well be overriding this). As long as the files are not being resampled (they are bit-perfect), then you shouldn't need to do much configuration on your sound card beyond that. (If you're using USB, then your sound card isn't in the signal chain at all.) If you're using Toslink (optical) or coax, and it is going through the sound card, then you should also make sure that any processing options in the sound card itself are also shut off.

Setting the volume control to variable (or not) has nothing to do with HD files (or not). However, arguably, the loss of quality caused by turning down a digital volume control would matter more on a higher quality HD file.

Oct 17, 2013 15:39:16 GMT -5 ews0899 said:

Hi All-

Received my DC-1 today replacing the Peachtree DacIt. Needless to say, it's night and day----the soundstage and dynamic of instruments are wide open and crystal clear. However, it's much different when using Mac>>DC1>>XPR2 and JRiver lossless files (DC1 as preamp). The music is lifeless and the low end of volume is flat and boring. Admittedly, I'm a newbie with lossless files and getting up to speed. I'm thinking my sound card on the Mac needs to be tweaked as the computer is less than 6 months old and pretty confident the sound card is up to date.

Waiting on my son to provide instruction on the Mac and lossless files. Question: The volume should be set to variable when using HD music files? Any information is appreciated.

Ed

[KeithL]

You cannot control the volume setting on the DC-1 USING the computer (they are not synched together). Just leave the digital volume settings on the computer at maximum (or 100%) and use the Volume Control KNOB on the DC-1.

Oct 17, 2013 16:19:45 GMT -5 GreenKiwi said:

Sorry, I'm missing what the two differences are that you're seeing where it is sounding lifeless?

You have a Mac with JRiver with lossless compared to iTunes on the mac? Both via DC1?

Or DC1-->XPR sound different than DC1-->Sherbourn Pre-1 --> XPR?

As for volume, you want any digital volume controls to be 70% or higher (assuming that they are 24 bit or higher and of good implementation (JRivers is a good implementation.) I believe that there are no volume controls directly on the DC-1 via the mac, the volume option is greyed out (at least for me). And the volume shouldn't really be any different that playing regular non HD music.

[GreenKiwi]

As an aside I would live for future dacs to provide the digitally controlled analog volume to the computer. There are a couple dacs out there that do this. It's quite convenient to be able to control the volume via the computer.

I think that the benchmark dac2 has a rather complicated volume structure too. Something with big analog steps and small digital steps in between. Ie analog is 0,10,20... And digital is 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

I would like to hear the bm2

[TheMachinist]

Hi Keith Would you please clarify if the USB reciver chip in DC-1 self powered or pylls 5v from computer ?