DC-1

[KeithL]

DC-1 Headphone Output specs:

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from digital sources):
(note: DC-1 has two independent headphone outputs; measurements are for each)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.01% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (1070 mW)
7.26 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (525 mW)
7.32 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (175 mW)
7.35 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (90 mW)

UPDATE: We really expected the digital numbers to be a little better than this...
and we figured out that some of the filters on the AP were set a bit different than usual when we ran the test,
so there'll be an update on the digital numbers early next week.

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from analog input):
(note: 2.5 VRMS analog input required for full output into 47 ohms or higher)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (1070 mW)
7.2 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.006% THD (510 mW)
9.23 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.004% THD (280 mW)
9.27 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.007% THD (140 mW)

[garbulky]

Feb 27, 2015 11:54:22 GMT -5 KeithL said:

DC-1 Headphone Output specs:

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from digital sources):
(note: DC-1 has two independent headphone outputs; measurements are for each)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.01% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (1070 mW)
7.26 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (525 mW)
7.32 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (175 mW)
7.35 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (90 mW)

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from analog input):
(note: 2.5 VRMS analog input required for full output into 47 ohms or higher)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (1070 mW)
7.2 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.006% THD (510 mW)
9.23 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.004% THD (280 mW)
9.27 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.007% THD (140 mW)

Keith!! Those specs are pretty great! What does it mean output power from analog input? So if you have an analog input at 2.5 V, then you get that power from the headphone outputs? I can see that it gets close to 50% more power using the analog inputs. Very impressive. Is this because of what it takes to power the DAC unit?

I've always wanted more detal on the design of the DC-1. Anything you care to share would be fantastic.
For instance I noticed
- There is a click that appears to be from a relay when going to the analog input. Does that mean there is a complete separate signal path for the analog input?
- Do you have anythng to let us know about the DC-1 analog path?
- You've mentioned the power supply is "robust". Anything to expand on that?
-I've noticed the pre-amp of the Dc-1 is surprisingly good for a DAC/pre-amp unit. Why is that?
- Does the DC-1 use dual op-amps?
- What about the interesting use of the two push button knobs for the OSD? How did they come up with that?
- Why does every Emotiva DAC have AES inputs? I appreciate the inclusion. I've noticed the CD players and the DACs have this connection. What made you guys go for that?

[KeithL]

The digital inputs on the DC-1 go through the D/A converters, and then to the volume control and a gain stage, and then on to the output.
Analog inputs obviously don't go through the DAC, so they go straight to the volume control, and on to the rest.
The relay switches whether the volume control and output stage are being fed from the analog input stage or from the output of the DAC.
The headphone amps get their own analog feed - after the volume control.

Under all conditions, the maximum output available from the headphone amps with an analog input is actually the max they can deliver without clipping.
With digital inputs and low impedance loads that limit is the same, but with high impedance loads the limit is the output voltage of the D/A stages, which don't deliver quite enough voltage with a "0 db digital signal" to drive the headphone amps into clipping.

The power supply is important to how well a DAC performs; the DC-1 has a nice heavy duty power supply, with several stages of regulation, which prevents one section of circuitry from interacting with the other - it's really just good design. (You don't want noise created by the digital circuitry from bleeding into the analog circuitry, or noise from the digital filters from introducing jitter to the clocks.)

A good preamp isn't that hard to design (especially if we're talking about a simple gain stage with no tone controls or anything fancy). It's actually kind of sad that everyone can't seem to figure out how.

I'm not honestly sure if any of the op-amps inside the DC-1 are duals or not.... and I don't have a schematic handy.... but it really doesn't matter. There's nothing inherently better or worse about single op amps than duals - and you can get most op amps in both versions with identical performance. (Singles can usually deliver a bit more current because they can dissipate more heat, but the separate amps in a dual track each other thermally a little bit better - and neither of those is terribly important in audio applications.)

I don't recall who came up with the dual-knob encoder control scheme.... probably Lonnie. The basic idea was to provide a lot of control, but avoid lots of buttons cluttering up that little face plate. We think it worked out rather well.

The main benefit of AES/EBU is that it supports long interconnect wires - which is most often an issue with studios - which is why a lot of studio equipment has them. Since the DC-1 was designed as studio equipment, we included one. I'm not quite sure why CD players tend to have them and other equipment usually doesn't... it just seems to work out that way.

Feb 27, 2015 19:15:51 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Feb 27, 2015 11:54:22 GMT -5 KeithL said:

DC-1 Headphone Output specs:

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from digital sources):
(note: DC-1 has two independent headphone outputs; measurements are for each)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.01% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (1070 mW)
7.26 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (525 mW)
7.32 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (175 mW)
7.35 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.02% THD (90 mW)

Headphone Amplifier Output Power (from analog input):
(note: 2.5 VRMS analog input required for full output into 47 ohms or higher)
2.5 VRMS max into 10 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (625 mW)
7.1 VRMS max into 47 Ohms @ < 0.003% THD (1070 mW)
7.2 VRMS max into 100 Ohms @ < 0.006% THD (510 mW)
9.23 VRMS max into 300 Ohms @ < 0.004% THD (280 mW)
9.27 VRMS max into 600 Ohms @ < 0.007% THD (140 mW)

Keith!! Those specs are pretty great! What does it mean output power from analog input? So if you have an analog input at 2.5 V, then you get that power from the headphone outputs? I can see that it gets close to 50% more power using the analog inputs. Very impressive. Is this because of what it takes to power the DAC unit?

I've always wanted more detal on the design of the DC-1. Anything you care to share would be fantastic.
For instance I noticed
- There is a click that appears to be from a relay when going to the analog input. Does that mean there is a complete separate signal path for the analog input?
- Do you have anythng to let us know about the DC-1 analog path?
- You've mentioned the power supply is "robust". Anything to expand on that?
-I've noticed the pre-amp of the Dc-1 is surprisingly good for a DAC/pre-amp unit. Why is that?
- Does the DC-1 use dual op-amps?
- What about the interesting use of the two push button knobs for the OSD? How did they come up with that?
- Why does every Emotiva DAC have AES inputs? I appreciate the inclusion. I've noticed the CD players and the DACs have this connection. What made you guys go for that?

[garbulky]

Feb 27, 2015 20:29:38 GMT -5 KeithL said:

The digital inputs on the DC-1 go through the D/A converters, and then to the volume control and a gain stage, and then on to the output.
Analog inputs obviously don't go through the DAC, so they go straight to the volume control, and on to the rest.
The relay switches whether the volume control and output stage are being fed from the analog input stage or from the output of the DAC.
The headphone amps get their own analog feed - after the volume control.

Under all conditions, the maximum output available from the headphone amps with an analog input is actually the max they can deliver without clipping.
With digital inputs and low impedance loads that limit is the same, but with high impedance loads the limit is the output voltage of the D/A stages, which don't deliver quite enough voltage with a "0 db digital signal" to drive the headphone amps into clipping.

The power supply is important to how well a DAC performs; the DC-1 has a nice heavy duty power supply, with several stages of regulation, which prevents one section of circuitry from interacting with the other - it's really just good design. (You don't want noise created by the digital circuitry from bleeding into the analog circuitry, or noise from the digital filters from introducing jitter to the clocks.)

A good preamp isn't that hard to design (especially if we're talking about a simple gain stage with no tone controls or anything fancy). It's actually kind of sad that everyone can't seem to figure out how.

I'm not honestly sure if any of the op-amps inside the DC-1 are duals or not.... and I don't have a schematic handy.... but it really doesn't matter. There's nothing inherently better or worse about single op amps than duals - and you can get most op amps in both versions with identical performance. (Singles can usually deliver a bit more current because they can dissipate more heat, but the separate amps in a dual track each other thermally a little bit better - and neither of those is terribly important in audio applications.)

I don't recall who came up with the dual-knob encoder control scheme.... probably Lonnie. The basic idea was to provide a lot of control, but avoid lots of buttons cluttering up that little face plate. We think it worked out rather well.

The main benefit of AES/EBU is that it supports long interconnect wires - which is most often an issue with studios - which is why a lot of studio equipment has them. Since the DC-1 was designed as studio equipment, we included one. I'm not quite sure why CD players tend to have them and other equipment usually doesn't... it just seems to work out that way.

Feb 27, 2015 19:15:51 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Keith!! Those specs are pretty great! What does it mean output power from analog input? So if you have an analog input at 2.5 V, then you get that power from the headphone outputs? I can see that it gets close to 50% more power using the analog inputs. Very impressive. Is this because of what it takes to power the DAC unit?

I've always wanted more detal on the design of the DC-1. Anything you care to share would be fantastic.
For instance I noticed
- There is a click that appears to be from a relay when going to the analog input. Does that mean there is a complete separate signal path for the analog input?
- Do you have anythng to let us know about the DC-1 analog path?
- You've mentioned the power supply is "robust". Anything to expand on that?
-I've noticed the pre-amp of the Dc-1 is surprisingly good for a DAC/pre-amp unit. Why is that?
- Does the DC-1 use dual op-amps?
- What about the interesting use of the two push button knobs for the OSD? How did they come up with that?
- Why does every Emotiva DAC have AES inputs? I appreciate the inclusion. I've noticed the CD players and the DACs have this connection. What made you guys go for that?

As usual, a very informative post. Thank you very much!!

[KeithL]

I just wanted to add one more thing.....

Each of the two headphone outputs on the DC-1 is driven by its own channel of a BUF634 high current precision buffer - paired with a high quality op amp (the BUF634 is inside the feedback loop of the op amp). This topology delivers lots of current, with very low noise and distortion, and a very low output impedance (well under 1 ohm), and ensures that the headphones you connect won't interact with each other.

[TheMachinist]

I am quite interested to know in detail about the ASRC implementation on the DC-1 soecifically. I am sure it would have been discussed somewhere. If so, kindly point me there..

Quite interested to know how it compares to Schiit Wyrd and USB Regen reclockers in theory.

[Chris]

Today, I wanted to tryout the DC-1 USB input so I downloaded the Windows drivers from Emotiva. No matter what I did, the Emotiva drivers failed to install in UAC2 mode. If I switched the DC-1 to USB 1.1 the default Windows drivers kicked in but the Emotiva package still would not install any drivers.

I am using an Asus T100T (Win 8.1) which only has one USB 3.0 port. I've got a half dozen USB Dacs here and the DC-1 was the first that wouldn't install. I did a quick search here and saw that some were using the Shiit Audio drivers since they use the same Cmedia chip. So, I get there drivers and they immediately install without a hitch. I reboot and now I am streaming at 192k/24b USB 2.0.

Whatever Shiit Audio is doing with their drivers I would encourage Emotiva to adopt as well.

Thanks.

[garbulky]

Mar 13, 2015 10:29:44 GMT -5 Chris said:

Today, I wanted to tryout the DC-1 USB input so I downloaded the Windows drivers from Emotiva. No matter what I did, the Emotiva drivers failed to install in UAC2 mode. If I switched the DC-1 to USB 1.1 the default Windows drivers kicked in but the Emotiva package still would not install any drivers.

I am using an Asus T100T (Win 8.1) which only has one USB 3.0 port. I've got a half dozen USB Dacs here and the DC-1 was the first that wouldn't install. I did a quick search here and saw that some were using the Shiit Audio drivers since they use the same Cmedia chip. So, I get there drivers and they immediately install without a hitch. I reboot and now I am streaming at 192k/24b USB 2.0.

Whatever Shiit Audio is doing with their drivers I would encourage Emotiva to adopt as well.

Thanks.

Read the notes about installing to windows 8 on the product page. You need to do something with driver permissions or user account controls.

[Tungx2]

How important is a DAC really?

Right now, I can stream all the audio through my Marantz SR6009.

pre-out to dc-1, then to my burson soloist amp.

My question is: is marantz dac that bad? will i see a major improvement on it on my HD800 headphones?

can I skip dc-1 all together and just go from Marantz SR6009 to my burson soloist?

I was intereted in the burson conductor Virtuoso (with a remote and dac) at 1500 USD. for 500 moretha soloist @ 1000 USD, i might as well keep the dc-1 with the remote.

Or I should keep soloist as I should keep the dac and amp separate.

Amps can last a long long time, but dacs might require upgrades some time in the future.

Any comments? this is just for headphones listening of course.

[garbulky]

Mar 13, 2015 15:08:45 GMT -5 Tungx2 said:

How important is a DAC really?

Right now, I can stream all the audio through my Marantz SR6009.

pre-out to dc-1, then to my burson soloist amp.

My question is: is marantz dac that bad? will i see a major improvement on it on my HD800 headphones?

can I skip dc-1 all together and just go from Marantz SR6009 to my burson soloist?

I was intereted in the burson conductor Virtuoso (with a remote and dac) at 1500 USD. for 500 moretha soloist @ 1000 USD, i might as well keep the dc-1 with the remote.

Or I should keep soloist as I should keep the dac and amp separate.

Amps can last a long long time, but dacs might require upgrades some time in the future.

Any comments? this is just for headphones listening of course.

I misread your post.

As for the DC-1. Ther are lot of things that go to make a system better. If even one of those things are a little out of whack, the benefits may not be realized elsewhere when you make an improvement. So basically what that means is that I can't predict whether a dc-1 is an improvement or not. Within its price range I think it does a decent job. There are better dacs out there but they also cost $$. But they can bring better sound imo.

In terms of headphones - a lot of the factors are reduced that could limit a system.
I would personally look at a dac to try it out. However running it through an avr may not be ideal as it may be subject to being converted back into digital and then the avr will use its own DAC to convert it back to analog so in this case you would hear the DAC of the AVR and not really your own dac.


If you are interested in the big bucks....you would be nterested in the upcoming schiit yggdrasil which is the first multi bit (and also) non delta sigma dac of its kind. Supposed to be selling for about $1500.
To be released soon.

[Chris]

Mar 13, 2015 13:35:05 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Mar 13, 2015 10:29:44 GMT -5 Chris said:

Today, I wanted to tryout the DC-1 USB input so I downloaded the Windows drivers from Emotiva. No matter what I did, the Emotiva drivers failed to install in UAC2 mode. If I switched the DC-1 to USB 1.1 the default Windows drivers kicked in but the Emotiva package still would not install any drivers.

I am using an Asus T100T (Win 8.1) which only has one USB 3.0 port. I've got a half dozen USB Dacs here and the DC-1 was the first that wouldn't install. I did a quick search here and saw that some were using the Shiit Audio drivers since they use the same Cmedia chip. So, I get there drivers and they immediately install without a hitch. I reboot and now I am streaming at 192k/24b USB 2.0.

Whatever Shiit Audio is doing with their drivers I would encourage Emotiva to adopt as well.

Thanks.

Read the notes about installing to windows 8 on the product page. You need to do something with driver permissions or user account controls.

Uh, I did and I don't endorse Emotiva's workaround. It's lazy. Don't take offence. I adore Emotiva and own a lot of equipment from them but justifying turning off Operating System default security settings is a workaround but not in my view correct. Secondly, Shiit either by using newer drivers or paying more attention prove that these drivers can be installed without the workarounds that Emotiva documents. I'm not being harsh on Emotiva, they are a small outfit and have understandably limited software expertise. They will get there, but these types of workarounds I have seen over and over during the past 30 years or so working in the Computer business. I don't want to bore people with my background but this is an area I have worked in for years and have a pretty deep understanding. Hopefully, Emotiva will resolve this with CMedia updates as I'm sure they don't like writing up several pages of workarounds to install their drivers. To conclude, as Operating Systems have become more secure many hardware and software companies were caught off guard with these security issues (UAC was a big problem initially) where their product worked because they deviated from GAP software. Eventually, they learned and accepted and it became a non-issue. I will not oblige and turn off Operating System security defaults just to accommodate some software that is not compliant.

[garbulky]

Mar 15, 2015 12:21:08 GMT -5 Chris said:

Mar 13, 2015 13:35:05 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Read the notes about installing to windows 8 on the product page. You need to do something with driver permissions or user account controls.

Uh, I did and I don't endorse Emotiva's workaround. It's lazy. Don't take offence. I adore Emotiva and own a lot of equipment from them but justifying turning off Operating System default security settings is a workaround but not in my view correct. Secondly, Shiit either by using newer drivers or paying more attention prove that these drivers can be installed without the workarounds that Emotiva documents. I'm not being harsh on Emotiva, they are a small outfit and have understandably limited software expertise. They will get there, but these types of workarounds I have seen over and over during the past 30 years or so working in the Computer business. I don't want to bore people with my background but this is an area I have worked in for years and have a pretty deep understanding. Hopefully, Emotiva will resolve this with CMedia updates as I'm sure they don't like writing up several pages of workarounds to install their drivers. To conclude, as Operating Systems have become more secure many hardware and software companies were caught off guard with these security issues (UAC was a big problem initially) where their product worked because they deviated from GAP software. Eventually, they learned and accepted and it became a non-issue. I will not oblige and turn off Operating System security defaults just to accommodate some software that is not compliant.

That's definitely your decision. I'm not unfamiliar with computers either, but you you may be slightly confused as to the consequences of turning off the driver signing requirement temporarily for the official driver for that product.

For iffy drivers sure, there's risks. (I've not encountered one for over a decade). But this is not some iffy driver. It's the official driver.

Though I doubt you will have issues....installling a certified driver for a different schiit product that uses a compatible chipset is more iffy than installing the real driver for the DC-1.

But I don't see any consequences for either way you decide to do it FWIW.

[brand]

Question about WASAPI. I have my DC-1 connected over optical not USB. Can I still use WASAPI or is it USB only?

[Dark Ranger]

Mar 16, 2015 11:27:41 GMT -5 brand said:

Question about WASAPI. I have my DC-1 connected over optical not USB. Can I still use WASAPI or is it USB only?

WASAPI is available over optical. My HTPC is connected to the DC-1 via optical. I'm using JRiver MC and can achieve WASAPI - Event Style.

I believe it has more to do with your transmitter than the receiver. E.g. your PC sound card and drivers must support WASAPI.

[KeithL]

The signal carried over a S/PDIF connection (which includes Toslink Optical and Coax) is a simple PCM digital audio signal (the receiver is "dumb" and doesn't care what mode you used to create the PCM signal).
The PCM signal will be the same regardless of what type of driver is involved, or where the source originated.

WASAPI is a Windows audio mode (which has been part of Windows since Windows 7).
While I suppose it's possible that the drivers for a specific sound card might refuse to support WASAPI, I've never seen that happen.

More often the issue is that the PLAYER program must also support WASAPI as an output choice or option - and some do not.
jRiver supports it by default; FooBar2000 supports WASAPI - but you have to download the free WASAPI plugin and install it.
Most modern players do support WASAPI as an option (although Windows Media Player, and some players like VLC that "simply use your Windows default player settings", do not.)

All of our DACs and the drivers that go with them DO support WASAPI.

Mar 16, 2015 11:35:21 GMT -5 Dark Ranger said:

Mar 16, 2015 11:27:41 GMT -5 brand said:

Question about WASAPI. I have my DC-1 connected over optical not USB. Can I still use WASAPI or is it USB only?

WASAPI is available over optical. My HTPC is connected to the DC-1 via optical. I'm using JRiver MC and can achieve WASAPI - Event Style.

I believe it has more to do with your transmitter than the receiver. E.g. your PC sound card and drivers must support WASAPI.

[KeithL]

WASAPI refers to how the player application transfers audio to the audio output device (it is an "audio mode" in Windows).

When you're using a USB DAC, the DAC IS the audio output device... so it and its drivers need to support WASAPI mode.

When you use Toslink or Coax S/PDIF, the sound card or interface card with the Toslink port on it is "the output device"... so what counts is whether THAT is using WASAPI or not. In that case, what goes between the output of the computer and the input of the DAC is a simple PCM digital audio data stream.

Mar 16, 2015 11:27:41 GMT -5 brand said:

Question about WASAPI. I have my DC-1 connected over optical not USB. Can I still use WASAPI or is it USB only?

[KeithL]

Let me clear the air a bit here.

Driver signature enforcement is one of those "security settings" that, quite honestly, often causes more problems than it potentially avoids. It was available in Windows 7, but was shut off by default in most installations (except specifically on some Asus 64 bit machines); it seems to be on by default in Windows 8 (at least usually).

What driver signature enforcement does is to verify a digital signature on each driver you install (you could think of it as an "anti counterfeiting measure" for drivers). To get "a driver signature" you submit the driver - along with a hefty payment - and get a cryptographic key issued for it. This process must them be repeated every time you update the driver. Because the process costs several thousand dollars, a significant percentage of the companies who use drivers aren't willing to pay it. Because of this, while you may be willing to trust drivers that are signed, you have no way of knowing whether an unsigned driver is "risky" or just unsigned. (Also bear in mind that this only matters for anonymously-downloaded drivers; if you got the driver from us, or directly from some other vendor, then you know where it came from, so there's no benefit to having a signature to confirm that. And, if you install lots of drivers, you'll almost undoubtedly run into other unsigned drivers for their devices, so you'll have had to turn signature enforcement off anyway.)

We get our C-Media drivers directly from C-Media... and, apparently, they don't feel that it's justified to spend the extra cost to have their drivers signed. For our part in it, we could get the drivers signed, but then we'd have to raise the price of every DAC we sell by a few bucks to pay for it - so we decided not to. If you want to place blame, then the real question is why, after all this time, Microsoft hasn't included UAC2 support in Windows (if Windows supported UAC2 internally, like it does UAC1, and like Apple currently does, then you wouldn't have to load extra drivers, and we wouldn't have to supply them; the actual "workaround" is having to install external drivers to begin with).

Incidentally, you WILL have to leave driver signature enforcement off after installing the drivers. If you were to turn it off to install the drivers, then on again afterwards, it will then "break" the drivers the next time they try to load. And, if that happens, you'll have to turn signature enforcement off, remove the broken drivers, then reinstall the drivers correctly.

Mar 15, 2015 12:21:08 GMT -5 Chris said:

Mar 13, 2015 13:35:05 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Read the notes about installing to windows 8 on the product page. You need to do something with driver permissions or user account controls.

Uh, I did and I don't endorse Emotiva's workaround. It's lazy. Don't take offence. I adore Emotiva and own a lot of equipment from them but justifying turning off Operating System default security settings is a workaround but not in my view correct. Secondly, Shiit either by using newer drivers or paying more attention prove that these drivers can be installed without the workarounds that Emotiva documents. I'm not being harsh on Emotiva, they are a small outfit and have understandably limited software expertise. They will get there, but these types of workarounds I have seen over and over during the past 30 years or so working in the Computer business. I don't want to bore people with my background but this is an area I have worked in for years and have a pretty deep understanding. Hopefully, Emotiva will resolve this with CMedia updates as I'm sure they don't like writing up several pages of workarounds to install their drivers. To conclude, as Operating Systems have become more secure many hardware and software companies were caught off guard with these security issues (UAC was a big problem initially) where their product worked because they deviated from GAP software. Eventually, they learned and accepted and it became a non-issue. I will not oblige and turn off Operating System security defaults just to accommodate some software that is not compliant.

[KeithL]

How much difference there is in how various "good" DACs sound is subjective... and it also depends on your associated equipment.
It also depends on the sorts of music you listen to.
It's also true that, once you get past a point of diminishing returns, the actual differences are often very subtle.
(Note that you're also comparing headphone amps here at the same time.)

I haven't heard them side-by-side, but I strongly suspect that the DC-1 has both a better DAC and a better headphone amp than the Marantz.
(Pre/pros are notorious for making compromises - and especially for not having great headphone amps in them; the DC-1 is both an excellent DAC and an excellent headphone amp.)
The HD800's are very nice headphones, but they also aren't especially difficult to drive, so it's hard to say how much of that difference would be audible with them.
I also have no experience with the Burson - although I can tell you that the DC-1 definitely compares favorably with some other units in and above its price range.
(So don't assume it will sound better because it costs three or four times as much - it might or it might not.)

I would definitely be comfortable suggesting that you buy a DC-1 and listen for yourself (you can return it within 30 days if you don't agree that it is a significant improvement).
(And I can say that I'd want to be darned sure that the Burson would sound noticeably better than the DC-1 before I'd commit to that price tag.)

Mar 13, 2015 15:08:45 GMT -5 Tungx2 said:

How important is a DAC really?

Right now, I can stream all the audio through my Marantz SR6009.

pre-out to dc-1, then to my burson soloist amp.

My question is: is marantz dac that bad? will i see a major improvement on it on my HD800 headphones?

can I skip dc-1 all together and just go from Marantz SR6009 to my burson soloist?

I was intereted in the burson conductor Virtuoso (with a remote and dac) at 1500 USD. for 500 moretha soloist @ 1000 USD, i might as well keep the dc-1 with the remote.

Or I should keep soloist as I should keep the dac and amp separate.

Amps can last a long long time, but dacs might require upgrades some time in the future.

Any comments? this is just for headphones listening of course.

[brand]

Perfect, thank you both.

[vcautokid]

I agree with Keith on AES EBU. Most pro gear like DAT or Flash based recorder or playback include AES EBU as an option.