ERM-1\ERD-1 Review

[doug917]

The ERM/ERD speakers survived the first RockBand party last night. I had a few people over from work and we hit RockBand for about 4 hours. Volume levels got extremely loud at one point for the extent of a couple songs...much louder than I would ever listen to, but I wasn't going to be the party pooper. The sound held together very well at this level and everything was still quite clear. On another note...I have finally got to the point where the bulb in the new projector has been broke in and it doesn't smell anymore. All in all, a good night...except for my singing. ;D

[Lonnie]

May 15, 2008 19:27:39 GMT -5 @doug917 said:

The ERM/ERD speakers survived the first RockBand party last night. I had a few people over from work and we hit RockBand for about 4 hours. Volume levels got extremely loud at one point for the extent of a couple songs...much louder than I would ever listen to, but I wasn't going to be the party pooper. The sound held together very well at this level and everything was still quite clear. On another note...I have finally got to the point where the bulb in the new projector has been broke in and it doesn't smell anymore. All in all, a good nice...except for my singing. ;D

good singing is overrated.

[doug917]

I think I did fine until my voice wore out and the Sam Adams and Xingu caught up with me...after that all bets were off...think American Idol kind of bad from that point on

[Lonnie]

May 15, 2008 20:23:41 GMT -5 @doug917 said:

I think I did fine until my voice wore out and the Sam Adams and Xingu caught up with me...after that all bets were off...think American Idol kind of bad from that point on

I'd vote for you on sex appeal alone.

[doug917]

I just don't even know how to respond to that!

[robthorn]

Sick is all I can say.
About the speakers. Hmmmmm? I am totally confused now. At first I honestly hated them and unplugged them thinking what a waste and put my older speakers back in service. I decided to try them again and called doug to get any insight. I started messing with the switches and they do sound better. Exact pacement seems to also be an issue. In my situation at least at the moment. Like if I sit in the perfect spot it sounds great but if I move my head 3 inches forward it gets marginal. on the surrounds I have to have the tweeters pointed directly at my ears. Well one tweeter each speaker which puts the mid driver towards the middle of my room. This may be fine and will have to work for the moment.
On the mains I had to turn the boundary compensator off or it really messed with the piano and voices. Supposed to be for boomy bass I imagine but it seems to effect other freqs. also. I am not sure I like the tweeters at all yet but I am going to give them a listen for a couple days. It seems like cymbals are clicky instead of ringy. Yeah thats my second grade vocabulary for you. Then again the more I am listening to them the better they may be sounding. Definitely a big change.
About build quality? The grills? I can only say seem like an issue. Not bad but not really good either. The cabinets themselves are done very nicely with a nice finish. They really aren't that dull looking at all. I found the best way to use 12 gauge wire is to just unscrew the nut completely and put the wire in and replace the nut. Nice snug fit like it should be. I have no clue what was being thought of on the erm posts though. They are unusable without individual banana plugs if you have decent wire. I am sure it was meant to be high end where people use banana plugs. I for one don't unless I have too like now.
Overall they are nice and sound pretty good. I have yet to figure out if they where worth the upgrade. In a few days I will switch back to my old speakers and see what I think.

[doug917]

Glad to hear things have improved Robert. I was in a very similar spot...when I heard the speakers in TN they did sound very different compared to what I what used to, but I did like this differences in sound. Coming back and listening to my normal setup I really started thinking about the ERM/ERD speakers I heard in TN and started noticing just how bright and tiring my old front speakers were and this is what led me to trying the ERD/ERM units. When I got them setup in my own room the sound I remebered from TN was back...and more. It's probably a good idea to give them a couple days, then switch back and see what you think. I'm wondering if the small sweet spot is due to the entertainment center limiting the width of the soundfield. Let us all know what you end up thinking either way.

For everyone else reading, I'll give you a bit of background about the similarities/differences in out two systems. Robert and I both had Def Tech BP2x surrounds but he had Def Tech powered towers for fronts and a Def Tech center, while I used Klipsch for the front 3. We discussed our environments which sound like they are pretty similar in size. The main difference between our setups when it comes to the speakers is that my front 3 speakers are out in the open at equal distances from the walls and pointing straight (not toed in at all), while Robert's front 3 are sitting inside his entertainment center and toed in a bit. As for the surrounds...I am using sides and rears and have all my surrounds mounted about 3ft above ear level with the side surrounds having the woofers directly in line with my ears and with the rear surounds being about 1/4 of the distance out from the side walls, while Robert is using side surrounds and has them much closer in height to ear level.

[Lonnie]

May 15, 2008 20:49:54 GMT -5 @doug917 said:

I just don't even know how to respond to that!

it's platonic. swear.

[hikinokie]

May 15, 2008 21:05:16 GMT -5 robthorn said:

Sick is all I can say.
About the speakers. Hmmmmm? I am totally confused now. At first I honestly hated them and unplugged them thinking what a waste and put my older speakers back in service. I decided to try them again and called doug to get any insight. I started messing with the switches and they do sound better. Exact pacement seems to also be an issue. In my situation at least at the moment. Like if I sit in the perfect spot it sounds great but if I move my head 3 inches forward it gets marginal. on the surrounds I have to have the tweeters pointed directly at my ears. Well one tweeter each speaker which puts the mid driver towards the middle of my room. This may be fine and will have to work for the moment.
On the mains I had to turn the boundary compensator off or it really messed with the piano and voices. Supposed to be for boomy bass I imagine but it seems to effect other freqs. also. I am not sure I like the tweeters at all yet but I am going to give them a listen for a couple days. It seems like cymbals are clicky instead of ringy. Yeah thats my second grade vocabulary for you. Then again the more I am listening to them the better they may be sounding. Definitely a big change.
About build quality? The grills? I can only say seem like an issue. Not bad but not really good either. The cabinets themselves are done very nicely with a nice finish. They really aren't that dull looking at all. I found the best way to use 12 gauge wire is to just unscrew the nut completely and put the wire in and replace the nut. Nice snug fit like it should be. I have no clue what was being thought of on the erm posts though. They are unusable without individual banana plugs if you have decent wire. I am sure it was meant to be high end where people use banana plugs. I for one don't unless I have too like now.
Overall they are nice and sound pretty good. I have yet to figure out if they where worth the upgrade. In a few days I will switch back to my old speakers and see what I think.

Thanks for the honest review. Food for thought.

[robthorn]

Thanks doug I was typing away and still forgot so much. I ended up toeing the fronts in but only about half as much as the def. techs. Then again they are about 18 inches closer to the tv so this makes sense. I don't notice the the tight sweet spot in the fronts just in the rears.
Even though the right and left fronts are inside the entertainment center they sound better with the boundary turned off and the plus 2 on the tweeter. zero would probably be fine on this setting also but they sound so different I have them at plus 2 right now trying to get some cymbal crash. Still can't get it but I am going to try a few other discs to see what I think. We will also watch a movie of some sort to see what we think of that.
Thanks again for your help and time,
Robert

[lonnie]

May 15, 2008 21:05:16 GMT -5 robthorn said:

Sick is all I can say.
About the speakers. Hmmmmm? I am totally confused now. At first I honestly hated them and unplugged them thinking what a waste and put my older speakers back in service. I decided to try them again and called doug to get any insight. I started messing with the switches and they do sound better. Exact pacement seems to also be an issue. In my situation at least at the moment. Like if I sit in the perfect spot it sounds great but if I move my head 3 inches forward it gets marginal. on the surrounds I have to have the tweeters pointed directly at my ears. Well one tweeter each speaker which puts the mid driver towards the middle of my room. This may be fine and will have to work for the moment.
On the mains I had to turn the boundary compensator off or it really messed with the piano and voices. Supposed to be for boomy bass I imagine but it seems to effect other freqs. also. I am not sure I like the tweeters at all yet but I am going to give them a listen for a couple days. It seems like cymbals are clicky instead of ringy. Yeah thats my second grade vocabulary for you. Then again the more I am listening to them the better they may be sounding. Definitely a big change.
About build quality? The grills? I can only say seem like an issue. Not bad but not really good either. The cabinets themselves are done very nicely with a nice finish. They really aren't that dull looking at all. I found the best way to use 12 gauge wire is to just unscrew the nut completely and put the wire in and replace the nut. Nice snug fit like it should be. I have no clue what was being thought of on the erm posts though. They are unusable without individual banana plugs if you have decent wire. I am sure it was meant to be high end where people use banana plugs. I for one don't unless I have too like now.
Overall they are nice and sound pretty good. I have yet to figure out if they where worth the upgrade. In a few days I will switch back to my old speakers and see what I think.

Hey Robthorn,

Man I feel for you. I know how it is when you are checking out new gear. With electronics there are subtle differences, but with speakers, they can be like night and day. I have heard the Def Techs and they will sound completely different from ours. The Def Techs excell at hard rock where I think you have already noticed these are a lot more laid back. When Vance voiced them he set them up to have a warm, natural sound, where the Def Techs have a more accentuated upper end. Having said that though, I just wanted to jump in here and say don't stress on it. Dude, if they don't suit your needs, its not a big deal. Just give me a call because I know how it is. ;D

[robthorn]

Lonnie I really appreciate you coming here and saying that but I am going to give them another try and see what happens after I switch back. When I got the lmc-1 i was the same way. I will let you know and thanks again. We are going on a cruise soon so we are going to pretend early and have some pina calada's and watch a movie this evening. Did I mention home made burrito's?
I do think anyone who buys these speakers should turn the boundry compensation off and try them like that first, even if it's near a wall or enclosed in an entertainment center. If they are too boomy then switch them. Mine all come from the factory with the boundary compensation turned on.

[lonnie]

May 16, 2008 17:35:05 GMT -5 robthorn said:

Lonnie I really appreciate you coming here and saying that but I am going to give them another try and see what happens after I switch back. When I got the lmc-1 i was the same way. I will let you know and thanks again. We are going on a cruise soon so we are going to pretend early and have some pina calada's and watch a movie this evening. Did I mention home made burrito's?
I do think anyone who buys these speakers should turn the boundry compensation off and try them like that first, even if it's near a wall or enclosed in an entertainment center. If they are too boomy then switch them. Mine all come from the factory with the boundary compensation turned on.

Not a problem Rob,

I just want you to be happy with them that's all.

Did you say home made burritos? I'm there...........if only I knew where here was. ;D

[CiXel]

Rob-
Which Def tech's are you comparing these to?

[robthorn]

Largo Florida and you are more than welcome. Check my order records for the address. Oh yeah there are leftovers and they where pretty good.

I have bp 7004 mains a pro2 center and bp2x rears.
We watched chain reaction on blu ray. It was ok but I will change back and watch some of the scenes over tomorrow. I wasn't impressed but it could have been the movie since I have never seen it before I will have to go over it again.
I don't mean to knock the speakers here at all and I hope I am not coming across that way. My question is only if they fit my listening tastes and then if someone has any ideas for placement or angles or switch configuration I am more than willing to try suggestions. As long as it doesn't damage anything of course.

[doug917]

Robert,

Did you get around to trying the diferent bipole/dipole settings on the surrounds? I was also thinking the other night...since the front three channels are inside your entertainment center (I think I recall you saying there were doors in front onf the speakers as well - I am assuming with transparent material for the speakres sound to pass through) do you have the front of the speakers pushed up towards the front edges of the entertainment center as much as possible? The reason I ask...if they are pushed back in the entertainment center, the structure being on the sides of the speakers could be limiting the of axis response and making the soundfield sound quite a bit smaller.

Also, do you have any pics of your room posted anywhere on the forum? If so, link me to it if you could so I can get a look at things to replace the (probably incorrect) image of things I have in my mind from our discussion the other night. If you don't have nay on the forum fell free to PM me with a couple as well.

Another suggestion...watch something you are very familiar with and see if you still hear the same things you are used to...more...less....etc. I you are familiar with the "Matrix" I highly recommend it as for me it was like listening to an entirely remixed soundtrack in a good way.

Bottom line though, like Lonnie says, if you don't end up liking them...send them back. If you do decide to send them back and have a little time before doing so and a couple extra pices of wire you could add on to your current runs, my own personal curiosity has me wondering what would happen to the sound if you had the speakers sitting outside of the entertainment center. This would help some others on the forum as it should determine if placing the speakers inside a structure will not produce as good of sound as placing them out in the open, or whether your tastes simply don't jive with the sound the speakers produce. I would give this a try myself, but I don't have an entertainment center I could place them inside.

[CiXel]

May 16, 2008 21:35:16 GMT -5 robthorn said:

I have bp 7004 mains a pro2 center and bp2x rears.
We watched chain reaction on blu ray. It was ok but I will change back and watch some of the scenes over tomorrow. I wasn't impressed but it could have been the movie since I have never seen it before I will have to go over it again.
I don't mean to knock the speakers here at all and I hope I am not coming across that way. My question is only if they fit my listening tastes and then if someone has any ideas for placement or angles or switch configuration I am more than willing to try suggestions. As long as it doesn't damage anything of course.

Naw-
It's not a matter of knocking anything and in fact it's good to hear. Speakers, and audio in general, is not a one size fits all proposition. That would make it too easy At least we are able to get into civilized honest discussions overall
The Def Techs are on my short list of tower speakers presently. I usually prefer a sealed enclosure, but those biploes are a completely different beast. I tend to be more of a rock boy which the 7000s help to hype, but I do have quite the penchant for Jazz at times too, where a more natural speaker will give you a sense of the 'space'. Obviously the low end extension won't be the same on these ERM's as the 7000 series, but I wonder if the Def Tech's 'in your faceness' clouds over some of the real detail in favor of hyping the top end.
I could equate it to using a 'professional' tool for the first time (be it mechanical or computerized) where you have so much more control and nuance initially that you actually do a worse than if you had just used the crappier tool that you were used to It's all so subjective and makes SUCH a major difference.

What Amp is driving your rig?

[robthorn]

Hey doug thanks for more suggestions but I had the center about half an inch from the edge and any coser I was afraid may slide forward and crash to the ground and the center speaker way up in the air was tilted towards my seating position. This speaker actually sounded better than the rest to me after fiddling with the switches, but still not "it" more than my current speaker. I watched a baseball game last night and the vocals sounded on the edge for lack of better words. I am now watching another game on the same station between the same 2 teams and it sounds normal. Only difference is I have my old center back in place.
On the front mains I removed the speaker panels in the front of the entertainment center to make sure they weren't bothering anything and lifted the speakers so the frame didn't block anything. I can easily hook up outside and will do so later on. My wife is sick of the test freq. to set the levels.
I will also get a picture up on this thread this evening.
Cixel I am using the lmc-1 for now and the xpa5 which both made the best improvement I have noticed ever. Added them seperately and had 2 good improvement days.
I can't say the def. techs are in your face. More than the emo's for sure but not as much as my jbls or cerwin vegas I used to have. I would love to here my old cerwin vegas with this amp. As for the Def. techs I don't hear them as clouded or muddy at all. Very much the opposite. What I hear from them is an acoustic guitar player in my living room with me. I play guitar and the acoustics sound very much like I am playing the guitar myself. I haven't figured out how to get that sound from the emo's. This is what I consider natural. I may be off from what natural is. If I have a drum set in my living room, My stereo should match that sound or a piano or even vocals. I am no audiophile by any means but I have been a musician for many years with some sound experience in live situations. This is the sound I am probably going for. Of course you don't watch home theatre with a live concert rig. More listening is needed.
thanks again to everyone.

[doug917]

Well we don't want anything to hit the floor As for instruments, they only ones I play are plastic (Guitar Hero and RockBand).

I hooked the XPA-5 up to my Cerwin Vega AT-15's and you talk about rockin' out...whoa! Not as detailed as the RPA-1 hooked to them now, but powerfull and excellent with rock music. Vegas scream for power and abuse and they love it...until you blow a fuse, but at least the fuse it there to protect things!

[robthorn]

I uped my fuse by half an amp on my old set. Never blew again and didn't hurt anything. Of course I didn't have the same power as I do now. It is a lot cleaner though. I used to try to play drums and alto sax but quickly gave them up and dedicated all my time to guitar.