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Post by mgbpuff on Nov 13, 2013 9:31:48 GMT -5
The HT industry is apparently a stinking mess when it comes to standards, each so called pro installer has his own approach (thus the 4 db sub adjustment recommenced by Hoffman - another pro will suggest something else) . I can't say that I realized all these differences before, but I have experienced weak LFE from time to time and just attributed it to the particular movie sound track. Now even if I get REW and the proper equipment, I still will not know how to set up the LFE correctly - what a mess - the industry should be ashamed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 10:29:22 GMT -5
It is not necessary to do any adjustments in your system for the LFE channel and its +10dB output. Set your speaker levels including the sub forgetting about the LFE output. The LFE output in the movie source disc is recorded at +10dB's and should play back +10dB's louder than any re-directed regular low bass to the sub. Reference level for the soundtrack will be 105dB's and for the LFE signal will be 115dB's. It is all taken care of. No need for the user to touch the LFE channel gain. Sorry for the long quotes below but I think it is very important to clear up the confusion about LFE/bass management. From Secrets of HT and Hi-Fi, Brian Florian: Stop! Before you run home and set your subwoofer 10 dB higher than you’ve already set it, you need to read on and find out why this is not necessary.
............... home Dolby Digital equipment is pre-set to play LFE data 10 dB higher than a main channel (or 10dB higher than the bass from a main channel). It is only necessary to set the subwoofer relative to a main channel and the LFE level will be correct. Very few processors allow direct manipulation of the LFE level. That is why the menus on most receivers say "Subwoofer Level" rather than "LFE Level".From S&V magazine, A. Grimani: www.soundandvision.com/content/bass-management-and-lfe-channel1. Low bass is NOT directional. If I had a penny for every time someone has told me they can hear bass directionality down to 20 Hz, I would be writing this article while flying to the French Riviera in my private jet. Yes, we can hear the overtones of bass instruments above 120 Hz, and those overtones should definitely be played by the main speakers correctly located in the room for proper imaging. However, we cannot-I repeat cannot-localize bass below about 80 Hz. ...............
3. The LFE channel is NOT a "subwoofer channel." The LFE signal should be thought of as a path for super-loud bass that would otherwise overload the main channels. Sound designers use this path when the main channels just can't put out enough bass to rock the house. Remember that in movie theaters, the volume control is fixed at a reference level. At that volume setting, the peak sound pressure level from the recorded medium should be 105dB in the listening area. In the mid-frequency range, 105dB is good and loud, but in the deep bass region, it just isn't enough to get the impact we all expect from big A-list titles with he-man characters wielding limitless firepower.
To get real chest-pounding bass, we need to get up to 115dB. The main channels are missing 10dB of headroom, and that's where the LFE channel comes to the rescue. With 10dB of extra headroom, it can really get a person's body bouncing around in the seat. LFE is only used during high-octane action with lots of bass; during the rest of a movie, the LFE channel has no content ...............
4. There should be ONE, only ONE, and nothing but ONE audio connection between an AV controller and powered subwoofers. Some AV controllers offer an LFE-only output in addition to the subwoofer output, and some subwoofers offer multiple line-level inputs. Controllers with both LFE-only outputs and subwoofer outputs may tempt us to connect a separate subwoofer to each output and run one subwoofer for the LFE channel and another one for summed main-channel bass. This is an exceptionally bad idea in most cases, because we need both subwoofers playing the same thing, working together to cancel bass resonances. The most effective use of two subwoofers is to have them play the sum of the bass from the main channels and the occasional LFE hit. Bass character stays consistent throughout the movie, and the subwoofers are used to their full potential.
This brings us to subwoofers with multiple line-level inputs. The concept of a subwoofer with multiple inputs that have various filtering and summing functions makes no sense in light of our discussion of bass management. In a multichannel audio system with bass management, a subwoofer needs one input, a polarity switch, a power switch, and that's all folks! Those other things-diverse inputs with misleading names, a stereo summing input, a lowpass filter, a volume control, etc.-are only useful in a stereo system without bass management and just add to the cost and complexity of a subwoofer. ............... ( I have run into situations in which the gain of the subwoofer is such that the bass level setting in the preamp-processor or AV receiver has inadequate range on its own to properly set the subwoofer level. Because of that, I personally prefer to have a level control on a subwoofer.—TJN)
5. There are NO clear rules governing the bandwidth of the LFE channel. The production statutes applied to LFE channels are so varied that determining the upper LFE cutoff frequency for a playback system is often an exercise in futility. Some LFE channels contain no content above 50Hz, while others (usually due to an error in mastering) are full range! The generally accepted safe approach on the playback end is to lowpass-filter the LFE channel at 80 Hz. However, some AV controllers do not apply a lowpass filter to the LFE channel at all, meaning that highly directional bass on some recordings could potentially be produced by the subwoofers. Beware of these controllers, as there is usually no way to add an external lowpass filter without serious repercussions to the main-channel bass.
6. The ratio of the LFE level relative to the level of the bass from main channels should NOT be adjusted in the AV controller. The ratio should be such that LFE signals are 10dB louder than signals of equivalent level in any other channel. A few early DTS music releases contained LFE channels that were 10dB louder than the industry standard. For this reason, some controllers include a DTS music mode that reduces the LFE channel by 10dB. There is no other logical reason to adjust the level of the LFE channel separately from the main channel bass. Doing so irreparably alters the mix intended by the sound engineer.
7. There is NO NEED for an LFE channel in the vast majority of music applications. There continue to be multichannel music recordings released with content in the LFE channel when the bass in the main channels isn't even close to overload. Inexplicably, some music-recording engineers think that they must put something into the LFE channel so that end users will hear sound coming from their subwoofers.
Frankly, that's terrible logic because the subwoofers in bass-managed systems (which represent the overwhelming majority) receive the LFE channel and the sum of the (redirected) main-channel bass. Users and installers of multichannel systems don't really need to worry about a music recording with an LFE channel as long as they set up their systems correctly with bass management. At times, however, bass-managed playback systems dig up bass that recording engineers didn't hear because their monitoring systems weren't bass-managed and their monitor speakers weren't full-range. This unmonitored bass sounds ultra-funky, and there's absolutely nothing users can do about it without reconfiguring their systems every time they switch discs. It's time for us to lodge some complaints with the production community!
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Post by mgbpuff on Nov 13, 2013 10:54:52 GMT -5
Well all I can say is that I did exactly as you say above, Chuckienut, but the PT7030 speaker balance setup produced a LFE level that was 10db too low as verified by lack of base in movies and as a separate level setting program (AIX Records setup bluray) indicated. If you read the so called experts postings, you get many varied conflicting answers. So I don't think your post is accurate although I wish it was because that is what I thought also and that is how previous prepros that I owned behaved, but not the PT-7030. I wish Emotiva would comment!
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Post by rolling01au on Nov 14, 2013 7:15:17 GMT -5
Im having trouble with Bluetooth,loses sync every 5 mins. Very annoying otherwise still happy,really wish it had a headphone output tho.
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Post by thepar on Nov 14, 2013 22:23:11 GMT -5
Im having trouble with Bluetooth,loses sync every 5 mins. Very annoying otherwise still happy,really wish it had a headphone input tho. Same problem here. |
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Post by bosshogg on Nov 15, 2013 2:38:11 GMT -5
Im having trouble with Bluetooth,loses sync every 5 mins. Very annoying otherwise still happy,really wish it had a headphone input tho. Headphone input? What kind of content do your headphones play? |
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Post by rolling01au on Nov 15, 2013 10:11:12 GMT -5
Im having trouble with Bluetooth,loses sync every 5 mins. Very annoying otherwise still happy,really wish it had a headphone input tho. Headphone input? What kind of content do your headphones play? Typo meant output, but thanks captain obvious |
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Post by bosshogg on Nov 16, 2013 1:08:06 GMT -5
Headphone input? What kind of content do your headphones play? Typo meant output, but thanks captain obvious Lol. Just busting your balls man. |
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Post by bosshogg on Nov 16, 2013 4:43:46 GMT -5
Has anyone found a way to get 5 channel stereo mode on with the remote without having to go into the main menu? I thought by pressing the 2 channel stereo button would cycle through the stereo modes but it does not.
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Post by cwt on Nov 16, 2013 6:38:56 GMT -5
Has anyone found a way to get 5 channel stereo mode on with the remote without having to go into the main menu? I thought by pressing the 2 channel stereo button would cycle through the stereo modes but it does not. With the logical exclusion its only available with 2ch pcm bosshogg ; not a 5.1 bitstream [ if you take it as a party mode like most such dsp's ] ; press the surround + button then left/right direction to scroll . One of the perks of a non yamaha approach  edit ; if you get a distorted 7ch stereo mode it's something endemic to the cirrus logic chipset so scroll quickly over it . Switched over to a new 7ch power amp recently so it wasn't the separate 2ch back surround I was running before . Similar thing with the cary 11a ces7.1 mode ; a fix would be sweet for anyone who actually has a use for it that is  |
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Post by luka3rd on Nov 20, 2013 8:51:48 GMT -5
Enjoyed the review Andrew ;just 2 questions ; is the usb port solely for the wifi dongle as I read this elsewhere ; I am curious about the tiny usb port near the power switch ; is this for factory upgrades [ports the same size as my usb 3d active glasses charge cable  ] or what is the procedure as I understand firmware upgrades can be done in the field . I can confirm that the USB input is for the Bluetooth dongle as well as USB drives with music media written to them. It has a rudimentary menu that allows you to surf through folders of media content that might be stored on a connected USB stick and it will playback supported media files. For a list of the supported file types please refer to your manual. Andrew didn't get it... in "tiny usb port near the power switch" you can not plug "Bluetooth dongle as USB drives"... Please, answer with more reading of the question. I am interested in the answer, too. |
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Post by repeetavx on Nov 20, 2013 12:23:35 GMT -5
On page 9 of the PT-7030 owners manual, it is listed as:
Since it is listed as a socket, and not a jack, I would be interested in the answer too.
My guess is that it would provide a low current source at five volts. How long it could do it is something only the engineers would know.
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Post by cwt on Nov 21, 2013 2:40:05 GMT -5
Andrew didn't get it... in "tiny usb port near the power switch" you can not plug "Bluetooth dongle as USB drives"... Please, answer with more reading of the question. I am interested in the answer, too. Yes ; got the impression that its nothing to do with upgrading firmware or Andrew would have said something along those lines - no mention = dont play with it . 5V indeed seems possible .. |
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jonas
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Post by jonas on Nov 23, 2013 3:44:55 GMT -5
I have discovered another problem with my PT-7030, apart from the issue with the popping sound in Star Trek Into Darkness the processor has repeatedly failed to include all channels after a pause in a movie.
Sometimes for example the center channel has fallen off completely. Looking at the amplifier, it shows that only Right, Left, Surround Right, Surround Left, and LFE channel is used. If I then pause and start again as it works most of the times.
Anybody else had the same problem? It also seems to be firmware issue?
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Post by joelsolid on Nov 23, 2013 16:51:33 GMT -5
I have discovered another problem with my PT-7030, apart from the issue with the popping sound in Star Trek Into Darkness the processor has repeatedly failed to include all channels after a pause in a movie. Sometimes for example the center channel has fallen off completely. Looking at the amplifier, it shows that only Right, Left, Surround Right, Surround Left, and LFE channel is used. If I then pause and start again as it works most of the times. Anybody else had the same problem? It also seems to be firmware issue? Does this happen with all sources? Explain in detail when this happens to you? I personally don't think I have run into that problem but I'll keep an ear/eye out for it. |
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Post by dkloosh on Nov 23, 2013 23:41:27 GMT -5
Im thinking of purchasing a 7030, the more i hear of these issues maybe not
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 0:21:58 GMT -5
Im thinking of purchasing a 7030, the more i hear of these issues maybe not Mine is 99.8% problem free the pro's heavily outweigh the con's in my opinion |
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jonas
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Post by jonas on Nov 24, 2013 2:41:25 GMT -5
I have discovered another problem with my PT-7030, apart from the issue with the popping sound in Star Trek Into Darkness the processor has repeatedly failed to include all channels after a pause in a movie. Sometimes for example the center channel has fallen off completely. Looking at the amplifier, it shows that only Right, Left, Surround Right, Surround Left, and LFE channel is used. If I then pause and start again as it works most of the times. Anybody else had the same problem? It also seems to be firmware issue? Does this happen with all sources? Explain in detail when this happens to you? I personally don't think I have run into that problem but I'll keep an ear/eye out for it. I´ve three sources connected, my HTPC, Pioneer BDP-LX71 blu-ray player and a Apple TV. Lately I´ve used my HTPC 99% of the times when whatching movies and so on. I don´t if I have the same problem on the other sources. It seems to happen more often with Dolby Digital audio tracks. It typacally happens when watching a movie on my HTPC pausing and start the movie again. But like I said, pause and start again and it works most of the time. Sometimes it has also happend when starting an episode/movie. Lately I´ve been watching breaking bad, it seems to happen more often on these discs. |
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Post by cwt on Nov 24, 2013 5:11:16 GMT -5
That's the trouble with htpc's and hdmi protocols jonas ; read a lot of similar posts over the years  something like a standalone player or you're apple device has been through better compliance testing . Don't see any of this with my oppo but my tvix3d s2 can seize up for no apparent reason requiring a hard reset . Any chance of swapping out your video card and/or trying a new hdmi cable ? I once had a pio bdp51; lovely picture ; the 71 with its upgraded multichannel analog out and separate power supply even nicer - the 7030 has a very clean pass through . Ide use that unless you're streaming rips ? |
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Post by bosshogg on Nov 25, 2013 4:23:12 GMT -5
I have had the same issue with some channels not coming back on or audio syncing at all after pause, ff or rw. Happens with 7030, 7020 sr-120 and a rotel. All was with streaming rips from htpc or my aios, never with a bd player or cox dvr. Like you said its something with the hdmi protocols with htpc and streaming players playing on these higher end processors.
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] or what is the procedure as I understand firmware upgrades can be done in the field . 
something like a standalone player or you're apple device has been through better compliance testing . Don't see any of this with my oppo but my tvix3d s2 can seize up for no apparent reason requiring a hard reset 