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Post by gravi on Nov 12, 2013 10:20:02 GMT -5
Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords?
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kse
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Post by kse on Nov 12, 2013 10:23:23 GMT -5
Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords? People still enjoy playing physical media such as CDs, and prefer a dedicated player for this purpose. Pretty simple... |
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Post by Jim on Nov 12, 2013 10:28:29 GMT -5
Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords? I think that kse answered pretty well. Because sometimes it's nice to stick a physical disc in a drive instead of messing with ripping it and storing it on a hard drive.... and worrying about a drive failure... or some other stupidity. "It just works" |
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Post by gravi on Nov 12, 2013 10:43:13 GMT -5
Okay, I can buy the failure argument, even though in the year 2013 the reasoning sounds very thin - A scratched optical disc has as much statistical probability as a corrupt media storage, magnetic or solid state. Still doesn't answer why not buy a device like Oppo that gives you so much more for a bit more money, even if you don't need the functionality. I also assume the majority of what one is paying for is the DAC inside this CD player? Isn't it a better investment to buy a DAC like XDA-2 and then feed it a digital output from any existing player or dirt cheap optical drive? I know, to each his own, but I am trained as an engineer so difficult for me to think like an audiophile, so not questioning anyone just trying to learn. Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords? I think that kse answered pretty well. Because sometimes it's nice to stick a physical disc in a drive instead of messing with ripping it and storing it on a hard drive.... and worrying about a drive failure... or some other stupidity. "It just works" |
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Post by Jim on Nov 12, 2013 10:47:52 GMT -5
Okay, I can buy the failure argument, even though in the year 2013 the reasoning sounds very thin - A scratched optical disc has as much statistical probability as a corrupt media storage, magnetic or solid state. Still doesn't answer why not buy a device like Oppo that gives you so much more for a bit more money, even if you don't need the functionality. I also assume the majority of what one is paying for is the DAC inside this CD player? Isn't it a better investment to buy a DAC like XDA-2 and then feed it a digital output from any existing player or dirt cheap optical drive? I know, to each his own, but I am trained as an engineer so difficult for me to think like an audiophile, so not questioning anyone just trying to learn. I think that kse answered pretty well. Because sometimes it's nice to stick a physical disc in a drive instead of messing with ripping it and storing it on a hard drive.... and worrying about a drive failure... or some other stupidity. "It just works" I don't like the hassle of streaming (and I'm a generation Xer). A CD will never crash, and minor scratches won't make it useless. It has no MTBF. You can either buy a DC-1 (Normally $699) and feed it the digital from a cheap transport, or you can buy the ERC-3 (will be $499) which has the guts of the DC-1. I might eventually buy a DC-1 and find a streamer that I like, but I'm not in any hurry. I'd rather have a quality CD player with a great built in DAC, then a cheap player with a good DAC. I already have an XDA-1 anyway.. So, yes, a good portion of what you're paying for in the ERC-* is for the DAC component. The Oppo has a different DAC, so I'm not really interested. The Oppo's primary design is for Blu-Rays and DVDs. There is no "wrong" approach... just personal preference. |
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kse
Emo VIPs
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Posts: 1,947
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Post by kse on Nov 12, 2013 10:51:19 GMT -5
Okay, I can buy the failure argument, even though in the year 2013 the reasoning sounds very thin - A scratched optical disc has as much statistical probability as a corrupt media storage, magnetic or solid state. Still doesn't answer why not buy a device like Oppo that gives you so much more for a bit more money, even if you don't need the functionality. I also assume the majority of what one is paying for is the DAC inside this CD player? Isn't it a better investment to buy a DAC like XDA-2 and then feed it a digital output from any existing player or dirt cheap optical drive? I know, to each his own, but I am trained as an engineer so difficult for me to think like an audiophile, so not questioning anyone just trying to learn. I think that kse answered pretty well. Because sometimes it's nice to stick a physical disc in a drive instead of messing with ripping it and storing it on a hard drive.... and worrying about a drive failure... or some other stupidity. "It just works" I hear ya. I have an Oppo player which could certainly handle CD playing duties. I also have a pair of ERCs. Variety and consumerism, I suppose. First-world problems.... |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 12, 2013 11:00:04 GMT -5
Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords? Well for one it's a DC-1 without an analog pre-amp in the mix. That may be a positive depending on how you feel about the pre-amp. Also (to my ears) different DACs don't always sound the same. Some are better. |
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Post by tweed on Nov 12, 2013 11:04:40 GMT -5
I am more curious as to how this will sound compared to the ERC-2?
Gonna find out soon enough!
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Post by audiobill on Nov 12, 2013 11:05:43 GMT -5
Stupid question - what exactly does this product bring to the table? Couldn't you buy a universal player like the Oppo, which many here already have? Why would anyone not store music digitally (losslessly) on a network device and play through a media player and DAC with all the convenience that it affords? Well for one it's a DC-1 without an analog pre-amp in the mix. That may be a positive depending on how you feel about the pre-amp. Also (to my ears) different DACs don't always sound the same. Some are better. FWIW - Not so sure it's a DC-1, with dual DACs per channel in a balanced configuration. Emotiva likes and uses the AD1955 chip throughout their DACS, but not in this configuration. |
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Post by gravi on Nov 12, 2013 11:11:28 GMT -5
First world problems indeed  Children are starving to death in Africa, but I really need 3 different DACs to hear my music, that could feed them for 5 years. Just kidding - that's the way the world works, not trying to poop on the party here Personally, I am still not convinced of DACs sounding different or DACs having a "sound" at all, besides electrical characteristics. Maybe I will come around one day. Okay, I can buy the failure argument, even though in the year 2013 the reasoning sounds very thin - A scratched optical disc has as much statistical probability as a corrupt media storage, magnetic or solid state. Still doesn't answer why not buy a device like Oppo that gives you so much more for a bit more money, even if you don't need the functionality. I also assume the majority of what one is paying for is the DAC inside this CD player? Isn't it a better investment to buy a DAC like XDA-2 and then feed it a digital output from any existing player or dirt cheap optical drive? I know, to each his own, but I am trained as an engineer so difficult for me to think like an audiophile, so not questioning anyone just trying to learn. I hear ya. I have an Oppo player which could certainly handle CD playing duties. I also have a pair of ERCs. Variety and consumerism, I suppose. First-world problems.... |
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Post by Jim on Nov 12, 2013 11:19:32 GMT -5
First world problems indeed Children are starving to death in Africa, but I really need 3 different DACs to hear my music, that could feed them for 5 years. Just kidding - that's the way the world works, not trying to poop on the party here Personally, I am still not convinced of DACs sounding different or DACs having a "sound" at all, besides electrical characteristics. Maybe I will come around one day. I can't say that I'm totally convinced of them sounding that different either. I wish I had that kind of time to sit around and do comparisons like that. Perhaps I can retire and do that, in say, 30 years. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 12, 2013 11:31:33 GMT -5
Well for one it's a DC-1 without an analog pre-amp in the mix. That may be a positive depending on how you feel about the pre-amp. Also (to my ears) different DACs don't always sound the same. Some are better. FWIW - Not so sure it's a DC-1, with dual DACs per channel in a balanced configuration. Emotiva likes and uses the AD1955 chip throughout their DACS, but not in this configuration. Actually you may be right. In the lonnie description they said it had the analog stage of the DC-1. But the erc-3 appears to use a single DAC for stereo. While the DC-1 uses dual dacs for stereo. |
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Post by gravi on Nov 12, 2013 11:56:16 GMT -5
The good thing is that if you do buy an expensive DAC it will sound better for most of us including me. It is called the power of the human mind. Regardless you get your money's worth. The world of audio is very hard to do studies on due to difficulty of level matching, etc. But tons of serious studies have been done with Oenophiles (wine aficionados for those who don't know the term) and the conclusion is similar - not only are people unable to detect a $20 wine from a $200 wine with measurable accuracy in a true double blind test, but remarkably when given the former and told it is the latter, most start noticing traits like hints of vanilla and traces of aged french oak barrels and such. First world problems indeed Children are starving to death in Africa, but I really need 3 different DACs to hear my music, that could feed them for 5 years. Just kidding - that's the way the world works, not trying to poop on the party here Personally, I am still not convinced of DACs sounding different or DACs having a "sound" at all, besides electrical characteristics. Maybe I will come around one day. I can't say that I'm totally convinced of them sounding that different either. I wish I had that kind of time to sit around and do comparisons like that. Perhaps I can retire and do that, in say, 30 years. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 12, 2013 12:00:41 GMT -5
The good thing is that if you do buy an expensive DAC it will sound better for most of us including me. It is called the power of the human mind. Regardless you get your money's worth. The world of audio is very hard to do studies on due to difficulty of level matching, etc. But tons of serious studies have been done with Oenophiles (wine aficionados for those who don't know the term) and the conclusion is similar - not only are people unable to detect a $20 wine from a $200 wine with measurable accuracy in a true double blind test, but remarkably when given the former and told it is the latter, most start noticing traits like hints of vanilla and traces of aged french oak barrels and such. I can't say that I'm totally convinced of them sounding that different either. I wish I had that kind of time to sit around and do comparisons like that. Perhaps I can retire and do that, in say, 30 years. Well, I spent zero dollars on my audition of the DC-1. And it sounded better than my other DAC's. |
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Post by Jim on Nov 12, 2013 12:09:23 GMT -5
The good thing is that if you do buy an expensive DAC it will sound better for most of us including me. It is called the power of the human mind. Regardless you get your money's worth. The world of audio is very hard to do studies on due to difficulty of level matching, etc. But tons of serious studies have been done with Oenophiles (wine aficionados for those who don't know the term) and the conclusion is similar - not only are people unable to detect a $20 wine from a $200 wine with measurable accuracy in a true double blind test, but remarkably when given the former and told it is the latter, most start noticing traits like hints of vanilla and traces of aged french oak barrels and such. I can't say that I'm totally convinced of them sounding that different either. I wish I had that kind of time to sit around and do comparisons like that. Perhaps I can retire and do that, in say, 30 years. The phrase that I prefer is "Faith based audio". It applies to much more than just $$. "The product looks better, therefore it must sound better..", etc, etc, etc. But, I think this is getting rather Off-topic from the discussion about the ERC-3, so I digress. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 12, 2013 13:02:06 GMT -5
The good thing is that if you do buy an expensive DAC it will sound better for most of us including me. It is called the power of the human mind. Regardless you get your money's worth. The world of audio is very hard to do studies on due to difficulty of level matching, etc. But tons of serious studies have been done with Oenophiles (wine aficionados for those who don't know the term) and the conclusion is similar - not only are people unable to detect a $20 wine from a $200 wine with measurable accuracy in a true double blind test, but remarkably when given the former and told it is the latter, most start noticing traits like hints of vanilla and traces of aged french oak barrels and such. The phrase that I prefer is "Faith based audio". It applies to much more than just $$. "The product looks better, therefore it must sound better..", etc, etc, etc. But, I think this is getting rather Off-topic from the discussion about the ERC-3, so I digress. But... I think my XDA-1 looks bigger and better than the DC-1!  |
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Post by jmasterj on Nov 12, 2013 13:17:17 GMT -5
I'm glad the ERC-3 is finally being released. I don't actually have a need for one at this time because my ERC-1 is sounding great, and working just fine. But should the need arise I would buy the ERC-3, 4 or,5 in a heartbeat. I really like the quality of the Emotiva CD players.
I have a LG Blu-ray DVD player that gets limited use. The last movie I watched on it was Hansel & Gretel Witch Hunters. I don't do a lot of movie watching anymore. I use to have a Netflix account but I found that I didn't have time to view the movies. Between all the programs currently on TV that I enjoy a lot that come on during the same time slot, I find that my DVR is constantly full. I have to scramble to watch those programs before it erases them. I'm on line a lot, and I play Big Fish Games. I don't need a Multi channel, multi format media player for $500.00 or $1200.00 the little $150 LG suits me needs just fine. Plus I don't want to be tempted to spend more money for the same music. Red book CD price vs. SACD price vs. Blu-ray Pure audio disc price.
I just want a CD player that excels playing red book CD's, and MP3 CD's. Most of the music I purchase now I download MP3 and put on a blank CD. That way I have the music instantly don't have to wait for, or pay for shipping. I'm one of those guys that has no desire to stream music. I don't want to have to have a internet connection just to listen to my own music. That doesn't make sense to me. I won't put my CD library on a hard drive either for what? That's a total waist of time for me. Back in the day I use to make cassette tapes for parties, or to listen to in the car. Now I just get up walk ten feet and put a different CD in the player. Like I use to do when playing records.
I'm just going to continue to put CD's in the player till the end. I don't want to incur the added expense of buying SACD's, or DVD-Audio disc. Now they have another new way to get your money out of your pocket. What is it called "High Fidelity Blu-Ray Pure Audio Disc" I think. It honestly might sound better. I guess my days of chasing the biggest, and the best, latest, and greatest, state of the art ultimate whatever are over. Don't get me wrong I did it for a long time. I spent a bunch of money, and I really enjoyed it then. Now I'll just watch you guys. I'll enjoy the pursuit of sonic nirvana vicariously through you, and your post.
So when you ask Emotiva why is it only a CD player, why not multi-media player.
The answer is simple. They made it for me, and people like me who just want to play a regular CD. Thanks Emotiva keep up the good work.
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Post by repeetavx on Nov 12, 2013 13:32:23 GMT -5
Isn't it a better investment to buy a DAC like XDA-2 and then feed it a digital output from any existing player or dirt cheap optical drive? I know, to each his own, but I am trained as an engineer so difficult for me to think like an audiophile, so not questioning anyone just trying to learn. As an electronics technician, and an audiophile, let me try to answer this. The theory is that a unit that has video circuitry, let alone multiple channels, require a compromise in both design and execution that degrades the delivered signal in almost immeasurable ways. We audiophiles will tell you with certainty, that we can hear most "inaudible" differences in equipment. With this penchant for hearing the unhearable, we buy the most polished, over designed, persnickety equipment we can ferret out. Emotiva being, currently, the best bang for our buck! |
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Post by gravi on Nov 12, 2013 13:56:24 GMT -5
I hear ya, but in my personal opinion playing MP3s on a high-end CD player is not doing it any justice or maximizing the audio experience. As to your position on streaming, you don't need an internet connection top stream your own collection. Instead of burning a CD with the MP3s you are buying, you can transfer them with one click to a hard drive or USB media. You can then read the MP3s from any drive or computer on your network or simply stick the USB into your BD/DVD player. The big advantage is that if you have a large collection it is all at your fingertips to browse and play instantly. I'm glad the ERC-3 is finally being released. I don't actually have a need for one at this time because my ERC-1 is sounding great, and working just fine. But should the need arise I would buy the ERC-3, 4 or,5 in a heartbeat. I really like the quality of the Emotiva CD players. I have a LG Blu-ray DVD player that gets limited use. The last movie I watched on it was Hansel & Gretel Witch Hunters. I don't do a lot of movie watching anymore. I use to have a Netflix account but I found that I didn't have time to view the movies. Between all the programs currently on TV that I enjoy a lot that come on during the same time slot, I find that my DVR is constantly full. I have to scramble to watch those programs before it erases them. I'm on line a lot, and I play Big Fish Games. I don't need a Multi channel, multi format media player for $500.00 or $1200.00 the little $150 LG suits me needs just fine. Plus I don't want to be tempted to spend more money for the same music. Red book CD price vs. SACD price vs. Blu-ray Pure audio disc price. I just want a CD player that excels playing red book CD's, and MP3 CD's. Most of the music I purchase now I download MP3 and put on a blank CD. That way I have the music instantly don't have to wait for, or pay for shipping. I'm one of those guys that has no desire to stream music. I don't want to have to have a internet connection just to listen to my own music. That doesn't make sense to me. I won't put my CD library on a hard drive either for what? That's a total waist of time for me. Back in the day I use to make cassette tapes for parties, or to listen to in the car. Now I just get up walk ten feet and put a different CD in the player. Like I use to do when playing records. I'm just going to continue to put CD's in the player till the end. I don't want to incur the added expense of buying SACD's, or DVD-Audio disc. Now they have another new way to get your money out of your pocket. What is it called "High Fidelity Blu-Ray Pure Audio Disc" I think. It honestly might sound better. I guess my days of chasing the biggest, and the best, latest, and greatest, state of the art ultimate whatever are over. Don't get me wrong I did it for a long time. I spent a bunch of money, and I really enjoyed it then. Now I'll just watch you guys. I'll enjoy the pursuit of sonic nirvana vicariously through you, and your post. So when you ask Emotiva why is it only a CD player, why not multi-media player. The answer is simple. They made it for me, and people like me who just want to play a regular CD. Thanks Emotiva keep up the good work. |
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Post by Jim on Nov 12, 2013 14:03:11 GMT -5
I hear ya, but in my personal opinion playing MP3s on a high-end CD player is not doing it any justice or maximizing the audio experience. As to your position on streaming, you don't need an internet connection top stream your own collection. Instead of burning a CD with the MP3s you are buying, you can transfer them with one click to a hard drive or USB media. You can then read the MP3s from any drive or computer on your network or simply stick the USB into your BD/DVD player. The big advantage is that if you have a large collection it is all at your fingertips to browse and play instantly. Could we keep this thread remotely on topic, instead of discussing the merits of CD players? I'm more interested in feedback regarding the ERC-3, rather than hearing about why we shouldn't be buying a CD player, or how we shouldn't use it. |
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Children are starving to death in Africa, but I really need 3 different DACs to hear my music, that could feed them for 5 years.
