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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jun 13, 2013 20:17:51 GMT -5
So, I guess it's gonna be a pair of XPA-1Ls for this boy. You say it as if a pair of XPA-1Ls is a bad thing.  I run 1Ls to my left and right mains (Bowers & Wilkins CT 8.2 LCR) at the moment and i'm not sure it gets better. It gets more expensive, but better? I'm having a hard time reconciling that one, and I have "better" here and, well, yeah... In other words the 1L monos are stupid good. Awaiting the arrival of my second XPR-1 so that I can pit the two against each other. If my gut holds true, I actually think I may prefer the 1Ls to the XPR-1 -but we'll see. Keep in mind, I love the XPR-1, top five all time actually, but I just wasn't prepared for what Lonnie was able to do with the 1Ls. Not at all my friend!!! I have very high expectations for the 1Ls. 90% of my listening should stay in solid Class A given my speakers. Also know Andrew, that I don't mean my above comments to be derogatory or to inflame the conversation. Just my opinion. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 14, 2013 0:18:01 GMT -5
I think it looks like a great move in the right direction, a huge discount. I don't think the comparison is fair, the Carver product is more refined and better built. This is a good thing.
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Post by ocezam on Jun 14, 2013 7:41:47 GMT -5
I would expect the market for a $1700 20 w/ch tube amplifier to be extremely small. And, I know that if this level of pricing holds, it will negate my purchase of a higher power Carver tube amp. I never thought Emotiva's purchase of Carver's tube company would result in Carver's existing tube products being priced where I'd need, or want, them. This price drop isn't insignificant, and will open the market a bit to other buyers, just not me. Carver's stuff is aimed at high end buyers, Emotiva would be stupid, I think, to change that. What I've been hoping for is tube products with power, pricing and looks similar to Rogue Audio's Perseus preamp and Atlas power amp. I think Chuck and I have similar desires in this area. I think Emotiva would be wise to market those types of products under it's own name, not Carver's. I'm still hoping this comes to pass. My two cents... |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jun 14, 2013 8:06:19 GMT -5
I would expect the market for a $1700 20 w/ch tube amplifier to be extremely small. And, I know that if this level of pricing holds, it will negate my purchase of a higher power Carver tube amp. I never thought Emotiva's purchase of Carver's tube company would result in Carver's existing tube products being priced where I'd need, or want, them. This price drop isn't insignificant, and will open the market a bit to other buyers, just not me. Carver's stuff is aimed at high end buyers, Emotiva would be stupid, I think, to change that. What I've been hoping for is tube products with power, pricing and looks similar to Rogue Audio's Perseus preamp and Atlas power amp. I think Chuck and I have similar desires in this area. I think Emotiva would be wise to market those types of products under it's own name, not Carver's. I'm still hoping this comes to pass. My two cents... Better said than I. |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 14, 2013 8:12:12 GMT -5
From Keith's accounts, it looks like they will release some emo stuff from carver as well so there's more to come.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 14, 2013 8:20:01 GMT -5
$1700 too expensive? Hmm. not in the tube world. You guys are thinking too low end with your Rogue and Jolida and kit amp comparisons. Carver amps are more entry high-end, in league with Cary or Lamm or Conrad Johnson or Audio Note.
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Post by cheapthryl on Jun 14, 2013 8:44:25 GMT -5
My AES superamp mkII built by Cary was $1700 new. Wonderful amp. AES is the budget side of Cary. Maybe this will be along the lines of the Carver/Emotiva venture. Carver selling at their prices with Emotiva selling cheaper goods. One thing to remember is Carver products along with higher end tube gear is point to point wired and the Chinese Imports are based on PC boards. PCB can be Produced much Cheaper.
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Post by cheapthryl on Jun 14, 2013 9:04:44 GMT -5
My point is Bob carver can sell point to point a little cheaper with Emotiva buying power. Emotiva can have new engineering crew work up some PCB designs for a less expensive line under Emotiva brand. Tube goodness for all price ranges.
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Post by tweed on Jun 14, 2013 9:13:11 GMT -5
Yes, the the 1L's I'm begining to think are a bit of a sleeper...I imagine not for long ;-)
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jun 14, 2013 9:13:23 GMT -5
$1700 too expensive? Hmm. not in the tube world. You guys are thinking too low end with your Rogue and Jolida and kit amp comparisons. Carver amps are more entry high-end, in league with Cary or Lamm or Conrad Johnson or Audio Note. Ok let's go to SS for a bit: Anthem MCA-20(Which I own) $1999 retail Emotiva XPA-2 (Which I will soon) $799 retail. MCA-20 @ $2k too expensive? Not in the SS world. Now, I have a need for another amp of this type. After owning 3 other Emotiva amps which do you think I'm gonna buy??? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 14, 2013 9:17:48 GMT -5
Solid state amps are a completely different equation. The differences between them in terms of sound and build quality are far more subtle to the point of being indistinguishable. You really cannot compare tube amp pricing and use to solid state, they are different worlds.
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Post by pedrocols on Jun 14, 2013 9:34:20 GMT -5
Solid state amps are a completely different equation. The differences between them in terms of sound and build quality are far more subtle to the point of being indistinguishable. You really cannot compare tube amp pricing and use to solid state, they are different worlds. Are you implying they should also be marketed differently? |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 14, 2013 9:46:18 GMT -5
Solid state amps are a completely different equation. The differences between them in terms of sound and build quality are far more subtle to the point of being indistinguishable. You really cannot compare tube amp pricing and use to solid state, they are different worlds. Are you implying they should also be marketed differently? Tube amps and SS amps? Yes, absolutely. Tube amps are a niche market, SS is mass market. |
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Post by chaosrv on Jun 14, 2013 10:10:10 GMT -5
Are you implying they should also be marketed differently? Tube amps and SS amps? Yes, absolutely. Tube amps are a niche market, SS is mass market. Agreed. It isn't even about which is better (that is completely subjective anyway) it is about different market appeal. I for one see no issue with Jade Design keeping The Vacuum Tube Amplifier Company as "luxury" brand and priced accordingly while implementing similar designs in Emotiva branded gear. |
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Post by chaosrv on Jun 14, 2013 10:20:48 GMT -5
A way to think of this is similar to car companies. While maybe not 100% accurate, Emotiva is Toyota while TVTAC is Lexus. Substantially similar vehicles based off of the same platforms. The most tricked out Toyota will come close to the Lexus (perhaps even best it some case) while costing thousands of dollars less. But even when compared to the tricked-out Toyota, the Lexus tends to have a bit better fit & finish a few luxury appointments not found in the mass-market brand. Lexus also sells fewer vehicles than Toyota (as TVTAC likely will compared to Emo) so they have to price accordingly to meet overhead & projected profits.
I doubt we'll ever see a sub-$1000 Carver tube amp and I don't think we should. It will cheapen the value of the brand. Now could we see a near identical performing product with the Emotiva logo & design aesthetics for under $1,000? I'd be very surprised if we don't.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 14, 2013 10:27:06 GMT -5
Good analogy, IMO.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 14, 2013 10:37:01 GMT -5
I would expect the market for a $1700 20 w/ch tube amplifier to be extremely small. And, I know that if this level of pricing holds, it will negate my purchase of a higher power Carver tube amp. I never thought Emotiva's purchase of Carver's tube company would result in Carver's existing tube products being priced where I'd need, or want, them. This price drop isn't insignificant, and will open the market a bit to other buyers, just not me. Carver's stuff is aimed at high end buyers, Emotiva would be stupid, I think, to change that. What I've been hoping for is tube products with power, pricing and looks similar to Rogue Audio's Perseus preamp and Atlas power amp. I think Chuck and I have similar desires in this area. I think Emotiva would be wise to market those types of products under it's own name, not Carver's. I'm still hoping this comes to pass. My two cents... Well said, I agree. Expecting the Carver product to hit Emo prices is unrealistic, but for Emo to build new Carver influenced tube products at much lower prices should be possible. I think that's where Keith was trying to go with the "Entry Level Tube Preamp" thread. |
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Post by pedrocols on Jun 14, 2013 17:21:30 GMT -5
I think Emotiva should also work on, which I am suspecting they are, new high sensivity speakers to pair with these amps...
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Post by mshump on Jun 14, 2013 17:42:18 GMT -5
Just a thought here, Bob Carver has been selling these amps on his website for awhile now and reduced their prices. Since he joined Emotiva, during the last podcast it was stated that he was going to work with Emotiva on developing tube gear. Are we getting a little ahead of ourselves here talking about the amp that's on sale on BOB CARVER's site not Emotiva's? I think they are 2 different entity's.
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Ref
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Post by Ref on Jun 14, 2013 17:52:41 GMT -5
Bob Carvers site now has Emotivas presence on it, with there're "Pure Direct" statement....
" Emotiva pioneered the direct-sale audiophile equipment market. Now, with over a decade of selling direct, Emotiva has brought The Vacuum Tube Amplifier Company direct to you at prices that simply can't be matched. But selling direct to you at exceptional prices is just the start. Welcome to PureDirect—the approach that drives everything we do."
So I think we are cool to discus, current and future possibilities.
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