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Post by copperpipe on Dec 16, 2015 9:48:06 GMT -5
IMHO a good sub for music can be a below par sub for movies because of its lack of power. In my experience the level of clarity and transparency is less demanding for movies vs music. For example, my crappy Onkyo 708 that I still have but repurposed was good enough for movies, however it was terrible for music and unlistenable. You're confusing output level and extension, with quality. That's not the same thing. You can have a very high quality small sub that works very well for music, and you can also be very happy with it in your home theatre depending on your needs and expectations. It's still good, whatever sound it does play is high quality. Just because it doesn't reach as low as the next sub does not make it a poor sub. If you have a large room, or you demand solid frequency response down to 10 hz, then you won't be happy with a small sub (even if it's high quality), but that just means you need to pick a sub dependent on your needs. Size (or output level) != quality. Just think of bookshelf speakers. Many high quality bookshelfs available that will work great in home theatre + music, you just need to pick a speaker according to your needs and match it with a sub that works well together. On the other hand, if you accept a sub in your home theatre that you wouldn't use in music, then you're simply unable to hear what the poor sub is doing because the sound effects mask the poor quality sub. That means you have poor ears, or are simply not trained to hear the difference. You can more easily detect a poor sub when playing music, yes, but that's something different. If a sub doesn't sound good in music then it won't sound good in home theatre either, you just can't tell it's making a mess in home theatre. |
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Post by novisnick on Jan 15, 2016 23:54:42 GMT -5
I would like to see a supersized version of the tower, maybe a T10. Featuring dual 10 or 12 inch woofers, two kevlar mids and a folded ribbon tweeter. You probably wont have to wait too long....   |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 16, 2016 0:20:46 GMT -5
There are more demands from a sub for a home theater from an SPL stand point than music. Also a sub can have a little bit more bloat for movies vs music where more control is more important than SPL. A great sub has both gobs of SPL and has great control. But that's the thing; if a sub only sounds good in home theatre then it is obvious that its deficiencies are being masked by the effects. If it can play music well, it will play home theatre well. We're not discussing SPL output levels as if that is the criteria to determine a good sub or bad; a good sub can still be small, you buy a sub (size) based on your needs. But a good sub is a good sub regardless of SPL level. Would you accept a speaker that played vocals really clear but had nasty highs and floppy lows? Nope, would be a poor speaker, you wouldn't claim "this is a very 'vocal' speaker!!" with a straight face. If it only sounds good in home theatre then you got ripped off and should drop it in the trash. I don't find "bloat in my movies" acceptable. Well it's kind of like this. It's raeslly about SPL levels even though you are saying it isn't. If a sub can do with a little bit more much larger SPL levels then you wioll have a fantastic experience with the subs for HT. Now a smaller sub may sond fantastically fast and responsive with responsive but wouldn't be able to provide the room crushing full range response with HT. You are assuming that an SPL subwoofer is bloated. It's not necessarily badly bloated where it's trash, it's just capable of more SPL with a slight bit of sacrifice on low the last bit of articulation. And you know what that SPL makes a lot of different when listening to room engulfing movies. I'm not saying that an EXCELLENT subwoofer couldn't do both. But imo usually it takes TWO subwoofers to get to that point. But it doesn't take two to get absolutely a fantastic HT experience. Lots of people just use their stuff for HT with nary an experience of music except for some background Pandora. |
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Post by copperpipe on Jan 16, 2016 9:22:32 GMT -5
But that's the thing; if a sub only sounds good in home theatre then it is obvious that its deficiencies are being masked by the effects. If it can play music well, it will play home theatre well. We're not discussing SPL output levels as if that is the criteria to determine a good sub or bad; a good sub can still be small, you buy a sub (size) based on your needs. But a good sub is a good sub regardless of SPL level. Would you accept a speaker that played vocals really clear but had nasty highs and floppy lows? Nope, would be a poor speaker, you wouldn't claim "this is a very 'vocal' speaker!!" with a straight face. If it only sounds good in home theatre then you got ripped off and should drop it in the trash. I don't find "bloat in my movies" acceptable. Well it's kind of like this. It's raeslly about SPL levels even though you are saying it isn't. If a sub can do with a little bit more much larger SPL levels then you wioll have a fantastic experience with the subs for HT. Now a smaller sub may sond fantastically fast and responsive with responsive but wouldn't be able to provide the room crushing full range response with HT. You are assuming that an SPL subwoofer is bloated. It's not necessarily badly bloated where it's trash, it's just capable of more SPL with a slight bit of sacrifice on low the last bit of articulation. And you know what that SPL makes a lot of different when listening to room engulfing movies. I'm not saying that an EXCELLENT subwoofer couldn't do both. But imo usually it takes TWO subwoofers to get to that point. But it doesn't take two to get absolutely a fantastic HT experience. Lots of people just use their stuff for HT with nary an experience of music except for some background Pandora. I'm not assuming anything  I'm saying some people accept poor subs in home theatre where it's harder to tell it's poor, whereas in music those deficiencies would be much easier apparent, but that doesn't make it a "home theatre" sub; it's a poor sub. I'm also saying the term "musical" means nothing when it comes to subs, there are "large" subs and "small" subs, and you pick a high quality sub based on the size that you need. Calling a sub "musical" is like calling it "black" or "square" or something equally pointless. |
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Post by yves on Jan 16, 2016 11:49:25 GMT -5
Well it's kind of like this. It's raeslly about SPL levels even though you are saying it isn't. If a sub can do with a little bit more much larger SPL levels then you wioll have a fantastic experience with the subs for HT. Now a smaller sub may sond fantastically fast and responsive with responsive but wouldn't be able to provide the room crushing full range response with HT. You are assuming that an SPL subwoofer is bloated. It's not necessarily badly bloated where it's trash, it's just capable of more SPL with a slight bit of sacrifice on low the last bit of articulation. And you know what that SPL makes a lot of different when listening to room engulfing movies. I'm not saying that an EXCELLENT subwoofer couldn't do both. But imo usually it takes TWO subwoofers to get to that point. But it doesn't take two to get absolutely a fantastic HT experience. Lots of people just use their stuff for HT with nary an experience of music except for some background Pandora. I'm not assuming anything I'm saying some people accept poor subs in home theatre where it's harder to tell it's poor, whereas in music those deficiencies would be much easier apparent, but that doesn't make it a "home theatre" sub; it's a poor sub. I'm also saying the term "musical" means nothing when it comes to subs, there are "large" subs and "small" subs, and you pick a high quality sub based on the size that you need. Calling a sub "musical" is like calling it "black" or "square" or something equally pointless. I disagree with your assumption that the term "musical" means nothing when it comes to subs, albeit what sounds musical to me might not sound musical to you. Musical subs obviously are subs that can be good for listening to music. Also obviously, this doesn't logically imply that they are poor subs for movies... that I can totally agree. Generally speaking, however, they are more weighted toward excellent handling of frequencies from 30Hz to 80Hz instead of below 30Hz. A fairly common observation among those specific audiophiles who primarily are stereo music oriented is that subs often — though certainly not always — sound detached from the music, providing an accompanying thump that bears little relationship to the sound from the main speakers. Rather than revealing the music's harmonic underpinnings, subs often obscure them in a thick morass of featureless boom. In addition, adding a sub often destroys the qualities of the main speakers that made you buy them in the first place. |
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Post by broncsrule21 on Jan 16, 2016 20:14:45 GMT -5
I would like to see a supersized version of the tower, maybe a T10. Featuring dual 10 or 12 inch woofers, two kevlar mids and a folded ribbon tweeter. You probably wont have to wait too long.... Gonna start saving. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 18, 2016 10:30:37 GMT -5
Was there any info on the impedance and efficiency ratings for the new towers? I don't recall seeing any but could have missed it.
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 18, 2016 12:09:37 GMT -5
I be interested in some bookshelves I could use for Two Channel Rules!!! movie viewing....  |
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Post by Percussionista on Jan 18, 2016 14:26:39 GMT -5
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cncb
Minor Hero
Posts: 14 
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Post by cncb on Jan 18, 2016 15:06:09 GMT -5
Can we at least get the dimensions of these?
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Post by ossif on Feb 7, 2016 8:19:36 GMT -5
Does anyone know about the dimensions of the new T1 Speakers?
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,092
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Post by klinemj on Feb 7, 2016 9:00:10 GMT -5
The best way to estimate would be to find and watch the video of Big Dan showing them at CES. At one point, I recall he stands next to them. He is about 6'1" to 6'3". So, you could get a reasonable estimate from that.
Or...I think they have said what the driver size is. You could estimate from the pix and that info if you can find it.
EDIT: dual 6.5" woofers. Go to the pix a couple pages back and you should be able to estimate from that. They were on a table in the video, so it would be hard to estimate from that.
Mark
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Post by kingchip161 on Feb 8, 2016 12:46:22 GMT -5
Maybe someone can help me with this question. I noticed in the PR of the new speakers all the drivers had phase plugs but then in the video of them at CES only the mid bass drivers had phase plugs and the rest of the drivers had normal dust caps. Did the design change or what's going on?
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Post by garbulky on Feb 8, 2016 13:54:49 GMT -5
I think they played so hard they fell off.  (Actually good question!) |
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Post by kingchip161 on Feb 8, 2016 14:07:36 GMT -5
Would be nice to know the frequency response of the new subs as well. Maybe someone from emotiva can chime in on these 2 questions
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Post by Axis on Feb 8, 2016 14:16:46 GMT -5
Maybe someone can help me with this question. I noticed in the PR of the new speakers all the drivers had phase plugs but then in the video of them at CES only the mid bass drivers had phase plugs and the rest of the drivers had normal dust caps. Did the design change or what's going on? The first time the phase plugs were announced was in the 12/23/15 Podcast. They explained that the new Airmotiv C1 three-way center channel loudspeaker had a CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on the midrange driver. When Dan was being interviewed at CES 2016 by Audioholics he explained the Airmotiv T1 three-way tower loudspeaker had the same CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on its midrange driver. The only new Airmotiv passive speakers with midrange drivers are the Airmotiv C1 center and the Airmotiv T1 tower. None of the woofers including the bookshelves and surrounds have them. There was never a promotion saying all drivers had phase plugs. Only the midrange drivers have phase plugs and CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug at that. Pretty cool if you ask me. |
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Post by kingchip161 on Feb 8, 2016 14:26:49 GMT -5
Maybe someone can help me with this question. I noticed in the PR of the new speakers all the drivers had phase plugs but then in the video of them at CES only the mid bass drivers had phase plugs and the rest of the drivers had normal dust caps. Did the design change or what's going on? The first time the phase plugs were announced was in the 12/23/15 Podcast. They explained that the new Airmotiv C1 three-way center channel loudspeaker had a CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on the midrange driver. When Dan was being interviewed at CES 2016 by Audioholics he explained the Airmotiv T1 three-way tower loudspeaker had the same CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on its midrange driver. The only new Airmotiv passive speakers with midrange drivers are the Airmotiv C1 center and the Airmotiv T1 tower. None of the woofers including the bookshelves and surrounds have them. There was never a promotion saying all drivers had phase plugs. Only the midrange drivers have phase plugs and CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug at that. Pretty cool if you ask me. Looks like they all have phase plus here: www.avsforum.com/emotiva-expands-airmotiv-speaker-lineup/And you can even go back a few post and someone from emotiva even posTed these same pic of the t1 tower with phase plugs |
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Post by kingchip161 on Feb 8, 2016 14:30:19 GMT -5
Please see posts from hair nick on page 17 and u will see these all have phase plugs I'm just wondering what changed. The pics hair nick posted look alot nicer than the CES video of them
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Post by Axis on Feb 8, 2016 14:45:48 GMT -5
The first time the phase plugs were announced was in the 12/23/15 Podcast. They explained that the new Airmotiv C1 three-way center channel loudspeaker had a CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on the midrange driver. When Dan was being interviewed at CES 2016 by Audioholics he explained the Airmotiv T1 three-way tower loudspeaker had the same CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug on its midrange driver. The only new Airmotiv passive speakers with midrange drivers are the Airmotiv C1 center and the Airmotiv T1 tower. None of the woofers including the bookshelves and surrounds have them. There was never a promotion saying all drivers had phase plugs. Only the midrange drivers have phase plugs and CNC milled aluminum functional phase plug at that. Pretty cool if you ask me. Looks like they all have phase plus here:http://www.avsforum.com/emotiva-expands-airmotiv-speaker-lineup/ And you can even go back a few post and someone from Emotiva even posted these same pic of the t1 tower with phase plugs Never noticed that on the first pictures released. Looks like that will need to be answered by Emotiva. I keep up on these things here and doubt anyone but Emotiva can answer this. My guess is the pictures that Hair Nick posted on page 17 and the ones that were posted at AVSForum were computer made long prior to CES 2016. Could have been that the woofers were not built yet and the midrange drivers were used as woofer pictures. Can you point to were Emotiva said all drivers had phase plugs ? This is the Audioholics CES 2016 video where only the midrange drivers have them. These are real live speakers and not a picture on a web page. |
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Post by kingchip161 on Feb 8, 2016 14:55:27 GMT -5
I was just going off the pic I saw, I don't think emotiva ever said all drivers will have phase plugs. I just noticed it in the PR pics that they released. I hope emotiva follows these posts and will chime in. I'm really interested in these speakers I'm between these and the elac uni-fi speakers but these are more in my budget. Also if they did drop the phase plugs what's the purpose for the oversized dust caps on the t1's
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I'm saying some people accept poor subs in home theatre where it's harder to tell it's poor, whereas in music those deficiencies would be much easier apparent, but that doesn't make it a "home theatre" sub; it's a poor sub. I'm also saying the term "musical" means nothing when it comes to subs, there are "large" subs and "small" subs, and you pick a high quality sub based on the size that you need. Calling a sub "musical" is like calling it "black" or "square" or something equally pointless. 
