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Post by leonski on Mar 8, 2022 21:02:54 GMT -5
When I bought my brother, I found the model of interest with a good set of reviews. I also found a killer price ONLINE at Staples. I went to Stapes Brick and Mortar? Higher price AT the store. I pointed out the cool ONLINE price and that's what they sold me the printer thing for.
I bought from the L2700 series. A real workhorse. And for what I want? Just text and the most simple drawing? Fine. the copy function IN COLOR has come in handy and I briefly experimented with the FAX but only exchanged a few nasty cartoons with a neighbor.
ONE other consideration? How much $$$ do they get for the Laser Cartridge? I think laser printers use the CMYK system so a complete set of carts COULD run in the hundreds. You will get 'lesser quantity' cartridges with your new machine......
If you intend Photo Quality output? You are REALLY going to eat-up the toner.....I do ALL my photo printing elsewhere these days. Inkjet was too expensive to maintain.....
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 8, 2022 21:41:54 GMT -5
The Brother model I want is the HLL8360CDWT (high speed / two paper trays). Only oddball scalpers on the internet have it in stock. They want 50% above list for one, and I just don't need it that badly. I've bookmarked both the Brother page and the Office Depot page. If either get it in stock, I'll order immediately. I don't care about cost of consumables. Clients pay for that. I don't do photos, so that doesn't matter either.
Cheers.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 9, 2022 19:32:17 GMT -5
I had an interesting experience this morning. I run an old Windows database on a virtual copy of Windows 7 on Mac OS-X via an emulator called VMWare Fusion. This morning it all quit working. Having just updated my VMWare Fusion (and having paid an additional fee for technical support), I created a support request. An hour or so later, I got a phone call from a tech in India. He opened a Zoom meeting, had me share my screen so he could watch what I did, and together we got things working again.
Were it easy, I'd have (eventually) figured it out myself. But my two weaknesses here are VMWare Fusion (that is the world's worst about documenting their software) and Windows (which I despise with fervor).
To me, they're tools (a means to an end, so to speak). I don't need to design a car to drive one, and so it is with this software (until it stops working...).
It would be nice if we could all intimately understand the tools we use, but that is no longer practical. A lifetime of learning would be necessary, and in that time, you'd sacrifice the productivity that you'd otherwise have if you just learned to use the tools (without any underlying understanding of how they work).
Up until now, having available people who DO understand our tools is the cost of a modern society (like this morning's tech from India), but I think that we may well be on the verge of that changing. Artificial Intelligence (AI) offers the promise of delegating technical analysis & repair to a "virtual troubleshooter" that can understand verbal communication well enough to ask critical questions, understand the context of the answers, and walk the customer through the needed repair without any need of human intervention. Machines that pass the Turing test are near if not already here.
Of course, such AI comes with a plethora of ethical and practical dangers that are unavoidable (think "SkyNet"). But like it or not, the brave new world of AI looms ever closer!
Boomzilla
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Post by leonski on Mar 9, 2022 20:31:18 GMT -5
You Know, Boom, it was the SAME WAY with automobiles. Before maybe '63 or '64, a GOOD mechanic could do everything required. Body? Engine? Brakes? Electrical? Exhaust? The skillset was varied but not beyond a good mechanic? Today? Electronics rule and dealers get over 100$ per hour for their mechanics. And jobss are done by 'hours' not job.....So? A good mechanic can, in a 10 hour day, do 12 or 14 hours of 'book' work and earn accordingly. But the day of the 'Jack Of All Trades' mechanic is over. I doubt more than 4 or 5% of ALL mechanics are capable of doing ALL major jobs....The rest are specialists. Brakes? AC? Electrical? And they are GOOD at reading those worthless codes and replaing UNNeeded parts. So you pay for the same job several times before somebody gets 'lucky'..... As for AI? Does NOT exist. Might not, EVER exist. I don't think any current systems can pass 'The Turing Test'.......named after Alan Turing the guy who was VERY helpful during WWII in cracking Enigma...... plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing-test/ |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 11, 2022 23:38:24 GMT -5
I currently have two printers. One is a tabloid (11x17) format MFC that can scan, copy, print, & fax. It is an inkjet-based Epson. The second is a high-speed (36-ppm), letter sized Brother monochrome laser.
I have the following problems with this duo:
* I don’t print much with the Epson because of page cost, so the print heads often dry out
* Although the Epson is technically capable of 11x17 printing, its resolution is too low for the work that I do, and the ink tends to smudge. I have to make multiple trips to the corner UPS Store to get high-res 11x17 color prints made.
* If I’m currently printing a report with more than about 10-percent color pages, it becomes quicker to let the UPS Store print the entire report.
* The Brother is nearing the end of its service life and although it is still working fine for now, will soon need both a new fuser drum (about $180) AND more toner ($80).
I’m considering two options:
1. Replace the Brother with a new color laser (from $500 to $650 after tax) and keep the Epson for wide-format scanning or
2. Replace both the Brother AND the Epson with a single tabloid-format, color-laser MFC (between $2,500 & $3,500).
On the face of it, option 1 seems the more attractive. But in practice, FINDING a consumer-priced color laser printer is currently impossible. The demand for the more expensive “business-class” tabloid printers is much lower and they are readily available. At between 600 & 3,000 pages per report, I can probably amortize the cost of any printer I choose, and the clients' printing work will pay for it.
I’m eager to make whatever change I’m going to make soon (so I can maximize the resale value of my existing printers).
Suggestions?
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2022 0:46:47 GMT -5
I currently have two printers. One is a tabloid (11x17) format MFC that can scan, copy, print, & fax. It is an inkjet-based Epson. The second is a high-speed (36-ppm), letter sized Brother monochrome laser. I have the following problems with this duo: * I don’t print much with the Epson because of page cost, so the print heads often dry out * Although the Epson is technically capable of 11x17 printing, its resolution is too low for the work that I do, and the ink tends to smudge. I have to make multiple trips to the corner UPS Store to get high-res 11x17 color prints made. * If I’m currently printing a report with more than about 10-percent color pages, it becomes quicker to let the UPS Store print the entire report. * The Brother is nearing the end of its service life and although it is still working fine for now, will soon need both a new fuser drum (about $180) AND more toner ($80). I’m considering two options: 1. Replace the Brother with a new color laser (from $500 to $650 after tax) and keep the Epson for wide-format scanning or 2. Replace both the Brother AND the Epson with a single tabloid-format, color-laser MFC (between $2,500 & $3,500). On the face of it, option 1 seems the more attractive. But in practice, FINDING a consumer-priced color laser printer is currently impossible. The demand for the more expensive “business-class” tabloid printers is much lower and they are readily available. At between 600 & 3,000 pages per report, I can probably amortize the cost of any printer I choose, and the clients' printing work will pay for it. I’m eager to make whatever change I’m going to make soon (so I can maximize the resale value of my existing printers). Suggestions? Thanks - Boomzilla I shall recommend option #2, I sour pill up front but having the proper tools to accomplish your task quickly and efficiently would be most advantageous. I haven’t weighed in earlier as I’ve only a need for a black & white laser printer. I’ve had very good reliability with an economical Brother laser printer. Good luck with your choice. |
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Post by graphic on Mar 12, 2022 5:22:44 GMT -5
3,000 page, PAPER reports? How many acres of forest do you need to clear cut for that?
I worked in the printing industry. We had quarterly safety, uptime, production reports that ran 500+ pages. I had ( 10 years + ago ) access to 60 ppm ( rated. None of them reach their rated speeds except in ideal circumstances ) color laser printers, b/w, and very high end calibrated, guaranteed color devices.
It didn’t take long for us to stop that and go to PDF. They can be as hi-res as you like, most can ride e-mail size limits, and extra copies cost next to nothing.
Possibility?
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 12, 2022 10:37:58 GMT -5
Reports must be accessible to all employees and affected contractors 24/7. Rather than tie up a computer for this purpose, clients prefer to keep a paper copy in the control room. The Safety department also prefers to keep a second paper copy so that when regulatory auditors come knocking, they can be given the paper copy rather than a computer workstation. I do provide PDF copies of all materials to clients, and on small projects, they sometimes consider the PDF adequate. But the majority of clients want two paper copies of all reports. And also, the reports must be kept for the life of the process.
After sleeping on it, a third option occurs to me. Since the tabloid-format work is a small subset of each report, offload all my 11x17 work (B&W printing & color scanning) to the corner UPS store. Since the volume is small, the client can pay the expenses.
Sell my letter-format laser now, and then go shopping for a letter-size color-laser MFC. When I buy the laser MFC, sell my current wide-format MFC.
The advantages include:
I can do my own color printing for the majority of each report
I go from two machines to one
I get away from plugged ink-jet print heads
The cost is reasonable
Used printers didn't used to be worth their weight as scrap. But with the global pandemic and disruption in shipping, a used and working laser printer can be valuable...
Boom
Postscriptum - Option 4...
Sell my monochrome laser & keep the wide-format Epson ink-jet. Printing will be SLOW (and expensive using ink cartridges), but since the client is paying for consumables... Zero out of pocket expense + maximize value of existing laser printer sale while it still has some resale value + maintain multifunction features that wife wants. Sounds like a win / win / win to me.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 12, 2022 16:18:30 GMT -5
Reports must be accessible to all employees and affected contractors 24/7. Rather than tie up a computer for this purpose, clients prefer to keep a paper copy in the control room. The Safety department also prefers to keep a second paper copy so that when regulatory auditors come knocking, they can be given the paper copy rather than a computer workstation. I do provide PDF copies of all materials to clients, and on small projects, they sometimes consider the PDF adequate. But the majority of clients want two paper copies of all reports. And also, the reports must be kept for the life of the process. After sleeping on it, a third option occurs to me. Since the tabloid-format work is a small subset of each report, offload all my 11x17 work (B&W printing & color scanning) to the corner UPS store. Since the volume is small, the client can pay the expenses. Sell my letter-format laser now, and then go shopping for a letter-size color-laser MFC. When I buy the laser MFC, sell my current wide-format MFC. The advantages include: I can do my own color printing for the majority of each report I go from two machines to one I get away from plugged ink-jet print heads The cost is reasonable Used printers didn't used to be worth their weight as scrap. But with the global pandemic and disruption in shipping, a used and working laser printer can be valuable... Boom Postscriptum - Option 4... Sell my monochrome laser & keep the wide-format Epson ink-jet. Printing will be SLOW (and expensive using ink cartridges), but since the client is paying for consumables... Zero out of pocket expense + maximize value of existing laser printer sale while it still has some resale value + maintain multifunction features that wife wants. Sounds like a win / win / win to me. For me if it’s work and it’s something you do a lot, I would go new and buy another printer. But one that is top of the line and expensive. Work is too important to be messing around with headaches at inopportune times from used machines. That’s why I spent the $$ for my printer because it ended up saving me a lot of time and didn’t fail during a critical task I had. Wasn’t perfect but it had an on-site repair warranty if I chose to make use of it. I wouldn’t want to trust the ups store to get all the details right or do Things in a timely manner. This way you’ll have access to your tools 24/7 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 12, 2022 17:56:35 GMT -5
Having done more market research, the choices are NOT in my hands. The tabloid format color multifunction machines are not in stock anywhere that I can find. The letter-format multifunction lasers are (mostly) sold out and at many places, and selling for silly premiums above MSRP for those stores that have them. If I urgently needed a printer, I'd buy one. But time is on my side. What I've got works - what I can't do, the UPS store can - when the shortages ease (in a year or two?), I can revisit the situation.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 12, 2022 22:08:42 GMT -5
Well suck me dry with a breast pump! Stumbling around online amongst the inventories of regional Office Depot stores I found a store about 15 miles from me that has a Brother MFC-L3770cdw not only in stock but also for the MSRP. Smoke was pouring off my keyboard I ordered that puppy so fast! I’m supposed to pick it up tomorrow (if they really have it & it isn’t a mistake in their inventory system).
Wish me luck…
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Post by novisnick on Mar 12, 2022 23:17:44 GMT -5
Well suck me dry with a breast pump! Stumbling around online amongst the inventories of regional Office Depot stores I found a store about 15 miles from me that has a Brother MFC-L3770cdw not only in stock but also for the MSRP. Smoke was pouring off my keyboard I ordered that puppy so fast! I’m supposed to pick it up tomorrow (if they really have it & it isn’t a mistake in their inventory system). Wish me luck… Best of luck Glenn! 🙏🤞 |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 12, 2022 23:42:02 GMT -5
Obviously some of you folks weren't writing (or reading) documents or reports during the heyday of Mil-Spec.
I worked as a technical writer in the 1980's... and one major project I worked on was writing documentation for a test set. The device to be tested, which was a very large uninterruptible power supply, big enough to run a destroyer... As I recall, it had 54 separate modules, each of which was tested separately, and had a separate test procedure... And, for each one, we delivered four documents - an outline, a flowchart, a draft copy, and a final copy... Multiple copies of each... There were four of us working on this project... In the two years we worked on it we wore out two printing engines on our office-sized printer... Each of those two printing engines was rated to have a life expectancy of about a quarter of a million pages...
And that was for JUST the copies we submitted for review... You don't want to even think of how many copies were printed of each for distribution...
3,000 page, PAPER reports? How many acres of forest do you need to clear cut for that? I worked in the printing industry. We had quarterly safety, uptime, production reports that ran 500+ pages. I had ( 10 years + ago ) access to 60 ppm ( rated. None of them reach their rated speeds except in ideal circumstances ) color laser printers, b/w, and very high end calibrated, guaranteed color devices. It didn’t take long for us to stop that and go to PDF. They can be as hi-res as you like, most can ride e-mail size limits, and extra copies cost next to nothing. Possibility? |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Mar 13, 2022 0:16:14 GMT -5
I have one comment to make about consumer-level color LASER printers. That is to pay careful attention to the cost of the CONSUMABLES. In many cases you can get a consumer-grade color LASER printer for a very reasonable price... But the per-page cost of toner ends up being VERY high... Whereas, with a much more expensive "professional model" you may pay far more up front, but save it back in consumables.
Ditto for other components like fusers and transfer belts or rollers. Some of those components have a relatively good service life - but are somewhat "delicate" and subject to "random failure". Most consumer-level products assume that you will be printing relatively few pages per month... and the cost is structured accordingly. The toner cartridges for one printer may cost three times as much - but give you ten times as many pages of output.
This will be a big deal if you print a lot of pages.
Likewise, the black and color cartridges may have different capacities, and prices.
(And that will matter if you print mostly black with a few color highlights... or mostly color photos and only a little skeleton black.. or none.)
It's also worth noting that many low-cost LASER printers are supplied with low capacity "started cartridges" (ditto for ink jets). And, if this is the case, then you're going to be buying more toner relatively soon. (And, if you're buying a printer where a full set of toner cartridges costs more than the printer itself , this is noteworthy.)
It's also always worth reading the reviews to see if owners are really seeing the number of copies per toner cart and expendables claimed by the manufacturer.
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Post by leonski on Mar 13, 2022 2:37:53 GMT -5
I have one comment to make about consumer-level color LASER printers. That is to pay careful attention to the cost of the CONSUMABLES. In many cases you can get a consumer-grade color LASER printer for a very reasonable price... But the per-page cost of toner ends up being VERY high... Whereas, with a much more expensive "professional model" you may pay far more up front, but save it back in consumables.
Ditto for other components like fusers and transfer belts or rollers. Some of those components have a relatively good service life - but are somewhat "delicate" and subject to "random failure". Most consumer-level products assume that you will be printing relatively few pages per month... and the cost is structured accordingly. The toner cartridges for one printer may cost three times as much - but give you ten times as many pages of output.
This will be a big deal if you print a lot of pages.
Likewise, the black and color cartridges may have different capacities, and prices.
(And that will matter if you print mostly black with a few color highlights... or mostly color photos and only a little skeleton black.. or none.)
It's also worth noting that many low-cost LASER printers are supplied with low capacity "started cartridges" (ditto for ink jets). And, if this is the case, then you're going to be buying more toner relatively soon. (And, if you're buying a printer where a full set of toner cartridges costs more than the printer itself , this is noteworthy.)
It's also always worth reading the reviews to see if owners are really seeing the number of copies per toner cart and expendables claimed by the manufacturer.
Good Point...... Cartridge Capacity is based on 'standard test conditions'. Are YOU standard? Probably not. A text-dense page uses more toner. Same applies to many other things. My Camera Battery is 'tested' for a certain number of exposures. But the way I use the camera? I'd best carry a SPARE since I am a little more battery intense. For Ink Jet? They'll practically GIVE you the printer but you need to keep a stock of the ink since each cart will last a dozen 8x10 Photos before needing to be replaced. Some newer, and for the Power User, types, have large capacity reservoirs of ink. But you better be printing! Laser printers.....will come with 'truncated' toner carts. So you might get a couple hundred or more pages, than it'll need to be replaced. THAN you're in for it. My inexpensive Brother Laser had such a cart and it lasted quite a while with my very moderate usage. The Full Capacity replacement? Lasting a LONG time. In briefly looking at Color Laser, which I've never considered buying? Plan on 80$ per cart or more......and it is is a CMYK system so 4 toner carts required. I looked to the next level on one laser and they sold BOTH versions, a low cost, few page rated and the Full Tilt version...... You MIGHT buy just a single cart, but get a better price buying a complete set. Color print accuracy is another can of worms. Using the supplied device drivers might or might not give you good results. My last ink jet? A hopeless disaster when doing critical imaging. But I FIXED it by getting aftermarket drivers... which were free from Gutenprint. At that point? Output from the printer was a very good match for my calibrated monitor. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 13, 2022 6:11:48 GMT -5
Youse guys are absolutely correct. Consumer printers are usually sold at severely discounted prices with the expectation that the maker will regain the lost profit by selling consumables. This is why so many consumer printers have security settings on their inkjet cartridges and toner cartridges that prevent you from using non-OEM replacements. My particular case, however, is somewhat unique. For home use, we just don't print that much. This low printing volume is why ink-jet printers aren't for us. The ethanol in the print nozzles evaporates between uses, and then every time we want to print something, the heads are clogged and won't print until cleaned (often repeatedly). Lasers, generally, can go for months without pluggage, and the laser can be left on standby (most consumer models now have "eco-friendly" certification that prevents the toner from being cooked while not in use - approximately 1.2 watts for my particular model). Such "eco-friendly" lasers also don't keep the fuser warm in-between uses (approximately 10.1 Watts), and so the first page of a job does take longer to print. Not an issue for us. But my color laser WILL see frequent use, and the cost of consumables WILL be high. Then add in Xerox "Ring-Tuff" paper that is 3-hole punched and Mylar reinforced, and a typical business page isn't cheap. The majority of usage, however, won't be for personal pages but instead for business ones. In this case, the client will be paying a "per-page" charge sufficient to not only pay for the consumables, but also to amortize the cost of the printer itself. Estimated business page cost for my particular model will be: B&W toner cost = 2.6 cents / page Color toner cost = 15.5 cents / page (full coverage - probably less for business graphics) Paper = 5 cents / page TOTAL = 7.82 cents / page (equally-mixed B&W+color) Since I can charge what the corner UPS store charges (49 cents per mixed page plus tax + 5 cents per page for the special paper = 54 cents / page the client pays) I gain 46.18 cents per page printed. After the first 1,300 report pages, the printer has paid for itself (including toner). Since all I'll be printing in reports are business graphics, the color calibration won't matter, and for Mac OS-X, all printer drivers are built into the operating system. Further, since I'm printing mostly tables (with a LOT of white space), the coverage per page will be likely no more than 50% of the estimates above. My biggest cost per page will be the paper. Fortunately, and by absolute chance, I bought 24 reams before the pandemic, and have sufficient stock for the next year before I need more.  |
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Post by marcl on Mar 13, 2022 7:12:38 GMT -5
Obviously some of you folks weren't writing (or reading) documents or reports during the heyday of Mil-Spec.
I worked as a technical writer in the 1980's... and one major project I worked on was writing documentation for a test set. The device to be tested, which was a very large uninterruptible power supply, big enough to run a destroyer... As I recall, it had 54 separate modules, each of which was tested separately, and had a separate test procedure... And, for each one, we delivered four documents - an outline, a flowchart, a draft copy, and a final copy... Multiple copies of each... There were four of us working on this project... In the two years we worked on it we wore out two printing engines on our office-sized printer... Each of those two printing engines was rated to have a life expectancy of about a quarter of a million pages...
And that was for JUST the copies we submitted for review... You don't want to even think of how many copies were printed of each for distribution...
3,000 page, PAPER reports? How many acres of forest do you need to clear cut for that? I worked in the printing industry. We had quarterly safety, uptime, production reports that ran 500+ pages. I had ( 10 years + ago ) access to 60 ppm ( rated. None of them reach their rated speeds except in ideal circumstances ) color laser printers, b/w, and very high end calibrated, guaranteed color devices. It didn’t take long for us to stop that and go to PDF. They can be as hi-res as you like, most can ride e-mail size limits, and extra copies cost next to nothing. Possibility? Keith you and I share the experience of an extremely varied though usually somewhat different long, long technical career. So it's funny how people can bring up a random topic and it happens to coincide with some specific experience we've had. I mainly remember "MIL-FTP-41" |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 13, 2022 12:28:21 GMT -5
Success - Thanks to the kind Office Depot manager lady...
I drove 15 miles, arrived at the Office Depot store from where I had purchased a printer last night, and was told that the OD website was in error - they had none in stock. I asked if I could get the display model instead, and the store manager said "normally - no," but was nice enough to call the regional manager, explain the situation, and ask permission. The regional manager agreed, and I took the floor model home with me.
Now to start selling off my surplus office supplies (audio divestment still to come at some point in the future).
Thanks again to the polite and helpful, green-haired, young OD manager who went out of her way to help.
Boom
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Post by novisnick on Mar 13, 2022 13:27:33 GMT -5
Success - Thanks to the kind Office Depot manager lady... I drove 15 miles, arrived at the Office Depot store from where I had purchased a printer last night, and was told that the OD website was in error - they had none in stock. I asked if I could get the display model instead, and the store manager said "normally - no," but was nice enough to call the regional manager, explain the situation, and ask permission. The regional manager agreed, and I took the floor model home with me. Now to start selling off my surplus office supplies (audio divestment still to come at some point in the future). Thanks again to the polite and helpful, green-haired, young OD manager who went out of her way to help. Boom
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Post by leonski on Mar 13, 2022 14:49:22 GMT -5
BOOM, I, too, have Mac. But the color from my last Epson Injet was awful. Poor contrast and other problems.
IF you need good color output? This would be required for good skin tones and a few other problems.......Than you MAY or May Not get lucky. I got lucky when after a little
searching about, I tested aftermarket FREE drivers. Even the color correction and such as applied in Photoshop didn't help.
If one of your reports has a shot of the CEO or some such? It'll look better if it has proper skintones and contrast......
I doubt any issue with graphics, though.....
Nice fireworks shot, novisnick. You take it?
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