|
Post by marcl on Jun 7, 2024 23:44:00 GMT -5
We are in the dark ages of auditory medicine. Things will be different for our great grandkids. In '87 I went to work as an engineer for a company called Ensoniq. At the time they made musical instrument keyboards ... synthesizers and samplers. But at the interview they said there was also a secret project that I'd be working on too, but they didn't give me a clue. When I got there they said it was a special kind of hearing aid. I asked what was special. They said they would measure a person's hearing loss over the frequency range, and then program 13 bands of filters and compression to correct the loss very accurately. Well I was surprised ... I asked "isn't that how hearing aids work? Like getting your eyes examined and then get a prescription for correction?" They laughed and said oh no it's mostly marketing ... they have a bunch of models with different response curves and they try different ones until you like what you hear. They went to a convention and it was all about how to sell ... no science at all. But THIS hearing aid was going to be so revolutionary that it would redefine the market. It even had to have a special name, "Sound Selector", and in a few years instead of calling them hearing aids people would generically call them Sound Selectors ... as generic as Band Aid. The Marketing manager got mad at anyone who referred to it as "the hearing aid". And no ... never went to market ... couldn't get it to work ...
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 8, 2024 12:10:27 GMT -5
I bought a HiFiberry DAC device from another Lounge member. It has:
1) a HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro card (uses Burr Brown DAC) with RCA outputs. See link below: HiFiBerry Spec Sheet 2) a Raspberry Pi (think it's a 3B model) 3) Metal Case 4) MicroSD card 5) Power supply
I bought it because it was already Roon-compatible, already assembled, and ready for use. But despite that, I can't get my Roon install (now on a Mac mini) to recognize it. Both the device and Roon are on the same Ethernet network; I have a Roon-recognized AudioQuest Dragonfly plugged into the device; I've checked network settings & firewalls.
When I go online, I find instructions on setting up such a device from scratch using some special screen device (that costs more than the device itself). I profoundly DON'T want to have to reengineer or reprogram this device - the reason I bought it was because I thought it was "plug-and-play."
Is there some setting I'm missing that would allow Roon to see this?
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 8, 2024 20:33:58 GMT -5
Boom, ALL I can think of is somewhere in the chain, probably a MicroShaft piece.....you will be mandated 64bit. If the new HiFiberry (hurt to type) is constrained to 32bit? Might just not see it. Mac OS went thru a transition when both 32 and 64 bit were allowed....but the NEXT upgrade? Crash! In came the ceiling.....
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on Jun 8, 2024 20:40:07 GMT -5
We are in the dark ages of auditory medicine. Things will be different for our great grandkids. In '87 I went to work as an engineer for a company called Ensoniq. At the time they made musical instrument keyboards ... synthesizers and samplers. But at the interview they said there was also a secret project that I'd be working on too, but they didn't give me a clue. When I got there they said it was a special kind of hearing aid. I asked what was special. They said they would measure a person's hearing loss over the frequency range, and then program 13 bands of filters and compression to correct the loss very accurately. Well I was surprised ... I asked "isn't that how hearing aids work? Like getting your eyes examined and then get a prescription for correction?" They laughed and said oh no it's mostly marketing ... they have a bunch of models with different response curves and they try different ones until you like what you hear. They went to a convention and it was all about how to sell ... no science at all. But THIS hearing aid was going to be so revolutionary that it would redefine the market. It even had to have a special name, "Sound Selector", and in a few years instead of calling them hearing aids people would generically call them Sound Selectors ... as generic as Band Aid. The Marketing manager got mad at anyone who referred to it as "the hearing aid". And no ... never went to market ... couldn't get it to work ... Over the counter hearing aids and most prescription hearing aids continue to use a few different selectable curves. Most won’t even provide a graph showing the frequencies they are designed to correct. Almost all hearing aids have no ability to handle frequencies above 8Khz. Most actually capture higher frequencies in the 6Khz to 8Khz range and force them down to a lower frequency. (Can you say strange sound?) Only Widex HearAids are fast enough to avoid comb filtering due to the speed of their processing. The good news is that Widex does have selectable correction. The bad news is what they cost. However, Widex is by far the best hearing aid for music.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 13, 2024 20:29:18 GMT -5
I want to buy a (used) $250 center channel speaker. My front R/L speakers can be either GoldenEar Triton 3+ or Klipsch RP-600m. I'm a "timbre-matching" skeptic, so any brand is OK. I also don't play loudly, so the center won't be taxed for output level. I'll be driving the center with a Yamaha RX-V6A. Make and model suggestions? Thanks in advance - Boom
|
|
|
Post by SteveH on Jun 13, 2024 22:02:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 13, 2024 22:11:43 GMT -5
I don't know much about this space......So I just went and looked at Golden Ear center channel speakers. These guys seem big on the AMT tweeter.
This just helps a little. EMO uses the same part. Or close enough. You look some and you'll see them being used.
This is, IMO to the good. Would a Klipsch Horn Tweeter be a good match with one of those AMT devices? Fillm at 11
The Airmotiv bookshelf, goes for 500$ the pair and sports a 6" woofer. Same tweeter........but not available.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 10,077
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2024 8:41:22 GMT -5
ATM tweeters have become somewhat popular these days. (Almost certainly because, when "done right", you get a really nice combination of smoothness, low distortion, and clarity.) I don't know who makes the ones Golden Ear uses, and I don't know offhand who makes ours, but... There are a number of different companies making them... and most of them make multiple different models... and usually custom builds as well... While they are mechanically similar they do vary considerably in how they perform, and how they sound, between different models... Engineering also tells me that they also actually do require rather careful crossover design to sound really good. You absolutely can design a speaker with a horn-loaded AMT with excellent results. However, I would be more careful mixing different driver technologies, like a horn-loaded dome and a horn-loaded AMT... (You could end up with a perfect match but not always...) I don't know much about this space......So I just went and looked at Golden Ear center channel speakers. These guys seem big on the AMT tweeter. This just helps a little. EMO uses the same part. Or close enough. You look some and you'll see them being used. This is, IMO to the good. Would a Klipsch Horn Tweeter be a good match with one of those AMT devices? Fillm at 11 The Airmotiv bookshelf, goes for 500$ the pair and sports a 6" woofer. Same tweeter........but not available.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 14, 2024 8:59:25 GMT -5
Thanks, KeithL, as always. I have a plan B. I think I'll set up my GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers again and try them with Yamaha's YPAO. If I like the sound better, then I'm not limited to a horn-tweeter center channel. The only listening I've done with the Triton speakers was with Class-D amplifiers. It's quite possible that those specific amps just weren't a good match for the Tritons? I have attempted to sell the Triton speakers, but I've not listed them on eBay - their fees are too high. I have listed the speakers on CraigsList for months and gotten not a single bite. I've also listed the speakers here on the Emotiva Lounge. Not a single bite here either. The problem is that most people who want good speakers can't afford them, and the audiophiles who CAN afford them know exactly what they want and the cost isn't of much interest to them. To say it another way, people who can afford $2K speakers aren't interested in how good a bargain is offered - they want exactly what they want and would rather pay for it than to buy what they DON'T want just because it's a good deal. So rather than give the GoldenEar speakers away, I'll keep them either as mains or as surrounds.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 10,077
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2024 9:11:53 GMT -5
I just noticed this post... so I'm going to add a bit more about amplifier input impedances. That long detailed post I made about input and output impedances applies to the VAST majority of modern solid state gear. There are, however, a few exceptions. There are still a few "boutique" DACs that have transformer coupled outputs. And there are "passive preamps" (basically remote controlled volume controls)... Both of those MAY have "special requirements" in terms of the output impedance of what's driving them and what they can drive in turn. Likewise, certain few unusual circuits, including some of those super-simple "first watt" amplifiers, also have "very special requirements". (They may be very particular about the level and source impedance of what you drive them with or the impedance of the speakers you connect to them.) So this may apply to a few Pass Labs designs... The other common exception is tube gear. For one thing, many tube preamps may have cathode follower output stages, which can drive relatively low impedance loads. However, many simpler tube preamps, and especially many older designs, do not. Some of those may be plate coupled... and may actually have trouble driving loads below several HUNDRED k-Ohms. They may also suffer from a loss of high frequencies due to capacitive loading from some "ordinary" interconnects. And tube power amps, designed to work with such sorts of preamps, may have very high input impedances. An input impedance of between 100k Ohms and 1 megOhm would be pretty typical for a vintage tube power amp. (For this reason, most tube power amps will work well with almost all preamps, but some tube preamps may have trouble driving some solid state amps, or with long interconnects.) This DOES NOT mean that you need some sort of expensive and exotic interconnects to work well with such gear. (Low capacitance interconnects that will work well do not specifically cost more... but you may not find that spec mentioned on all cables.) And, finally, Moving Magnet phono cartridges are VERY particular about the load capacitance they see... And that includes the capacitance of the cable you use to connect them to the phono preamp. The cartridge sees a combination of the capacitance provided at the input of the phono preamp and the capacitance of the cable connecting them. In this case the goal is NOT "the lowest capacitance" but rather "the total capacitance recommended for that cartridge". And, these days, this spec is quite often not provided for interconnects, cartridges, or preamps. The takeaway here is this: The interconnect cable between a MOVING MAGNET cartridge and the phono preamp is the one place on a modern system where you can EXPECT different interconnects to sound different. And there are three VERY important side notes there: This is only true if you have a phono cartridge connected to a separate phono preamp (so not for line level outputs on turntables that have internal preamps). This is specifically true for Moving Magnet cartridges... and barely true at all for Moving Coil cartridges (which operate at a much lower impedance). This DOES NOT mean that "expensive cables are better" or that "better cables are necessarily expensive"... It simply means that "different cables may sound different" and "you can tune the sound of the cartridge by trying different cables". I just looked at the Pass Labs 30.8 stereo, pure 'A' amplifier. Input impedance for SE / Bal is listed as 50 / 100. (presume Kohms?) But that is the TOTAL for balanced. Typically, input impedance is 1/2 what they call for balanced PER LEG, , but the rating is TOTAL......
|
|
KeithL
Administrator ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 10,077
|
Post by KeithL on Jun 14, 2024 9:16:18 GMT -5
I've sold quite a bit of gear on eBay... and I can tell you this... You may not like their fees or their policies... But listings on eBay reach a LOT more people than listings anywhere else. And, in this case, while people may look on CraigsList for "a local bargain"... If they're looking for something specific, by name, that's somewhat hard to find, they're going to look on eBay... Thanks, KeithL , as always. I have a plan B. I think I'll set up my GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers again and try them with Yamaha's YPAO. If I like the sound better, then I'm not limited to a horn-tweeter center channel. The only listening I've done with the Triton speakers was with Class-D amplifiers. It's quite possible that those specific amps just weren't a good match for the Tritons? I have attempted to sell the Triton speakers, but I've not listed them on eBay - their fees are too high. I have listed the speakers on CraigsList for months and gotten not a single bite. I've also listed the speakers here on the Emotiva Lounge. Not a single bite here either. The problem is that most people who want good speakers can't afford them, and the audiophiles who CAN afford them know exactly what they want and the cost isn't of much interest to them. To say it another way, people who can afford $2K speakers aren't interested in how good a bargain is offered - they want exactly what they want and would rather pay for it than to buy what they DON'T want just because it's a good deal. So rather than give the GoldenEar speakers away, I'll keep them either as mains or as surrounds.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 14, 2024 15:01:50 GMT -5
novisnick - And to anyone else familiar with Yamaha AVRs... I'm a Yamaha newbie. I just got a Yamaha RX-V6A and I'm trying to do several things. I've got the manual (although B&H didn't send me one with the AVR and I had to print my own: 1. My wife wants to watch Cox Cable. I want to run the Cox box HDMI feed through the Yamaha and have it active on the Yamaha's HDMI output even when the AVR is in standby mode. Doing this would allow me to NOT have to swap the TV input back and forth between the Cox box and the Yamaha. I'm about to go spelunking through the manual to see if I can figure this out (unless one o'youse guys knows how off the top of your head?). 2. I want to play YouTube movies on the TV with the sound played through the Yamaha (but only sometimes). If the Yamaha is in standby mode, I want the audio from the TV speakers only. There's a section in the Yamaha manual about enabling ARC, and that may be the way to do this. But the manual, from what I read in "skim mode" didn't address what happens if the Yamaha is in standby mode. I can reread the manual, but if anyone knows this off the top of their head... 3. From what I understand, Yamaha's YPAO only corrects down to about 30 Hz. If I want room correction below that frequency, there are several ways to accomplish that, each with its own advantages and disadvantages: * The subwoofer manufacturer offers a DSP program that can boost or cut in fine increments (think of it as a digital graphic equalizer - but not a parametric one). The results of the EQ are stored in the sub's plate amp RAM. The negative to using this is that that you have to have your own calibrated microphone and a laptop to run it on. Without taking room measurements, you're shooting in the dark as to what you're doing. Also, the manufacturer's program does NOT run on a Mac - you MUST use a PC. * Roon offers a parametric equalizer that allows you to set the frequency, boost, cut, and Q. But again, unless you have your own calibrated microphone and REW on a laptop, you not only don't know what you're doing but also any changes you make apply to the sub AND to the main speakers. If your main speakers are ported, and you apply significant boost below the port tuning, your woofers can flap like sheets in a breeze. * Daton Audio offers a device that goes between the sub-out and the subwoofer. It connects wirelessly to any cell phone, and since every iPhone uses the same microphone, the results are fairly accurate. This does not affect the main speakers, so it's safe to use. Is it accurate? Maybe... * Any other ideas? Thanks - Boom
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 14, 2024 16:03:42 GMT -5
Just a quick note on tweeter design. 2 or more designers may START with the same patent information or even add a few manufacturer samples. But than diverge due to the many choices possible. Magnet type influences overall 'sensitivity'. Powerful magnets may allow for some other paramter changes or improvements. The diaphragm material matters. And how thick the wire 'film' depositited. Number of folds..... External 'beam shaping' of the resultant sound helps dispersion or to a design goal..... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Motion_Transformer#:~:text=In%20contrast%20to%20a%20planar,polyethylene%20terephthalate%20(PET)%20film. The WIKI may help visualize? NOTE TO BOOM? I've tried Craigslist for several items and not gotten anything but scam replies. 'I'm in Europe but will send a representative' was about the oddest. Even a NEW arctic-grade Parka....which for SoCal is vast overkill, but still? No. Even my Lowe camera bag. Unused with tags still IN the pouch. Zip. Ancient 8mm movie projector? ('30s) DVDs? VHS?
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 14, 2024 16:17:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 15, 2024 9:00:22 GMT -5
So far this morning I've: * Moved the Samsung HDMI umbilical input to HDMI-4 (ARC) * Disconnected the Cox box to Samsung direct HDMI cable * Connected the Yamaha HDMI-out (ARC) to the Samsung's HDMI-4 (ARC)* Connected the Cox box to Yamaha HDMI input 1 * Set the Yamaha input to HDMI-1 (the Cox box)
Here's what happens:
PROBLEM 1: With the Yamaha on and the Samsung set to HDMI input 4 (ARC), the TV has video and audio playing via the TV speakers. When I go to the Samsung menu & tell it to play to the AVR, the TV sound goes off, but the AVR gets no audio. I've double checked the ARC settings on both the TV and the Yamaha, and, according to the manuals, I should be getting audio from the Yamaha. Not.
PROBLEM 2: When playing the TV through the Yamaha (sound from the TV speakers), if I turn the Yamaha off, I lose both audio AND video at the TV. The Yamaha also has a "standby" button. If I try to put the Yamaha in standby, nothing happens.
Any ideas? - Thanks, Boom
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,282
|
Post by geebo on Jun 15, 2024 9:44:12 GMT -5
You want to be able to watch the Samsung using it's speakers sometimes and through the Yamaha sometimes, right? I do that very thing with my LG and RMC-1L all the time. To watch the Samsung with the Yamaha playing Audio: Connect the Cox to HDMI 1 on the Samsung. Connect the ARC ports of the TV and the Yamaha together. Select HDMI 1 on the Samsung to watch the Cox. Put the Yamaha on the ARC input. There should be an input named ARC or something similar The Samsung may have to have it's sound output changed to the Yamaha. Make sure CEC is enabled on both pieces.
To watch the TV with it's own speakers just turn on the TV and leave the Yamaha off. My LG automatically plays through it's own speakers in that case.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 15, 2024 12:54:46 GMT -5
I've wasted too much time already. So I'm going to skin this cat another way. Yes, ARC should work via HDMI, but it just doesn't. I've carefully read the Samsung instructions on ARC not once, not twice, but three times. I'm doing everything "right." Ditto for the Yamaha. I'm convinced that there is just some peculiarity, not in these makes, but in these models that is preventing ARC from functioning.
And even if I did get ARC working, I'd still be faced with the problem of either the Yamaha not passing video when off / standby or else the Samsung not accepting video when the Yamaha is off /standby. Again, not worth troubleshooting any further.
And although we haven't mentioned it, the Cox box itself may well be the monkey wrench in the works.
99% of my wife's time is spent watching TV over the Cox box and using the Samsung's built-in speakers. That being the case, it's little enough trouble for me to swap Samsung inputs when I want to watch a Blu-Ray, etc. So, my solution is as follows:
1. Run a HDMI cable directly from the Cox box to the Samsung umbilicus (there is no HDMI input on the set - you MUST use the umbilical cord - a design feature that will prevent me from EVER buying another Samsung TV). Leave the Samsung on that input for Judy's 99% of the time.
2. Run another HDMI cable directly from the Yamaha to the Samsung umbilicus. When I want to watch a Blu-Ray or stream from a different source, I can swap inputs at the Samsung.
3. Run a TOSLINK optical cable from the Samsung umbilicus to the Yamaha. When I want TV audio through the surround system, I can swap inputs on the Yamaha to the optical input.
This creates a few more wires, but it works, and it's possible that I may eventually get HDMI/ARC working, in which case I can remove the wires then.
Now I'm going to unpack & set up the sub!
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,282
|
Post by geebo on Jun 15, 2024 14:15:30 GMT -5
I've wasted too much time already. So I'm going to skin this cat another way. Yes, ARC should work via HDMI, but it just doesn't. I've carefully read the Samsung instructions on ARC not once, not twice, but three times. I'm doing everything "right." Ditto for the Yamaha. I'm convinced that there is just some peculiarity, not in these makes, but in these models that is preventing ARC from functioning. And even if I did get ARC working, I'd still be faced with the problem of either the Yamaha not passing video when off / standby or else the Samsung not accepting video when the Yamaha is off /standby. Again, not worth troubleshooting any further. And although we haven't mentioned it, the Cox box itself may well be the monkey wrench in the works. 99% of my wife's time is spent watching TV over the Cox box and using the Samsung's built-in speakers. That being the case, it's little enough trouble for me to swap Samsung inputs when I want to watch a Blu-Ray, etc. So, my solution is as follows: 1. Run a HDMI cable directly from the Cox box to the Samsung umbilicus (there is no HDMI input on the set - you MUST use the umbilical cord - a design feature that will prevent me from EVER buying another Samsung TV). Leave the Samsung on that input for Judy's 99% of the time. 2. Run another HDMI cable directly from the Yamaha to the Samsung umbilicus. When I want to watch a Blu-Ray or stream from a different source, I can swap inputs at the Samsung. 3. Run a TOSLINK optical cable from the Samsung umbilicus to the Yamaha. When I want TV audio through the surround system, I can swap inputs on the Yamaha to the optical input. This creates a few more wires, but it works, and it's possible that I may eventually get HDMI/ARC working, in which case I can remove the wires then. Now I'm going to unpack & set up the sub! You had said you connected the Cox box to Yamaha HDMI input 1. Arc will never work that way. The Cox would HAVE to be connected to the TV (in your case the input box of the TV), not the Yamaha. The Cox box will not keep ARC from working. It's just an HDMI source. The TV strips whatever audio there is at an HDMI input and sends it to the processors ARC output. The naming is confusing because when using ARC it's really an input labelled as an output. And you MUST have CEC enabled in both the processor and the TV or ARC will not work.
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Jun 15, 2024 15:18:47 GMT -5
Our AVRs / processors are obviously different, geebo - With my Cox box HDMI output connected to the HDMI input 1 of the Yamaha, I get audio AND video at the TV from the Yamaha's HDMI (ARC) output (NOT named HDMI-1 on this brand). But turn off the Yamaha (or put it in standby mode), and the TV loses both audio and video. I've definitely enabled CEC and ARC on both the Samsung and the Yamaha. No tango... As I said, I could almost quote you both the Samsung and Yamaha user manuals on ARC from memory by now. They don't work. Maybe the Samsung is a PC and the Yamaha a Mac? In any case, the optical bypass should solve this problem. If so, I can live with it. THANKS for your help - it's appreciated. Glenn
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,282
|
Post by geebo on Jun 15, 2024 19:00:24 GMT -5
Our AVRs / processors are obviously different, geebo - With my Cox box HDMI output connected to the HDMI input 1 of the Yamaha, I get audio AND video at the TV from the Yamaha's HDMI (ARC) output (NOT named HDMI-1 on this brand). But turn off the Yamaha (or put it in standby mode), and the TV loses both audio and video. I've definitely enabled CEC and ARC on both the Samsung and the Yamaha. No tango... As I said, I could almost quote you both the Samsung and Yamaha user manuals on ARC from memory by now. They don't work. Maybe the Samsung is a PC and the Yamaha a Mac? In any case, the optical bypass should solve this problem. If so, I can live with it. THANKS for your help - it's appreciated. Glenn The ARC spec is what the ARC spec is. For ARC to work the source MUST be plugged into the TV or its input box. Select whatever input you want to use for the TV. HDMI 1, 2, 3 it doesn't matter. Now that the TV is playing the chosen source, ARC will take the audio and send it OUT of the ARC input of the TV to the ARC output of the AVR. There is no other way. You will never get ARC to work by plugging the source into the processor. It don't work that way. Oh, and when listening with ARC you must have the ARC input selected on the AVR. The TV can have any input selected except for the ARC input. Now that ARC input will work just like any other input if not using ARC. ![](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fhub.yamaha.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F06%2FHDMI-ARC-Fig.-2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d82d8b2d9315b7f473475cca051f9f383ccaf70275b0a46e8d5e094e4aacc80d&ipo=images)
|
|