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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 15, 2024 20:22:15 GMT -5
You’re totally right. geebo. I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. I would not be using ANY of the TV inputs you show in your graphic. The TV’s only “inputs” are the Cox cable box and an Ethernet cable connecting the TV to the internet. That being the case, do I need ARC at all? The Cox cable box has a TOSLINK optical output already on it! I might need to adjust the lip synch, but this bypasses the Samsung totally!!
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 15, 2024 20:45:03 GMT -5
You’re totally right. geebo. I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. I would not be using ANY of the TV inputs you show in your graphic. The TV’s only “inputs” are the Cox cable box and an Ethernet cable connecting the TV to the internet. That being the case, do I need ARC at all? The Cox cable box has a TOSLINK optical output already on it! I might need to adjust the lip synch, but this bypasses the Samsung totally!! Using the Toslink output of the TV would be another way to do it. You could watch with TV speakers or with the Yamaha. ARC has greater bandwidth than Toslink and eARC has more than ARC. But if Toslink can handle all the audio signal you would use then it will do what you want.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2024 5:06:38 GMT -5
Actually, TOSLINK from the Cox cable box won’t do what I need. Why? If I’m watching a movie over cable, it would work fine. But if I’m watching a movie via Amazon Prime that the TV has pulled in over its Ethernet connection, the audio won’t “flow backwards” to the Cox cable box. Therefore, audio must be captured from the TV itself, not from either one of its two individual feeds.
My only two options here are to either get ARC working or to get an optical feed from the TV itself. Having just read CNET’s ARC primer, my understanding is that the one and only HDMI-ARC socket on the TV must be connected by an ultra-high-speed, e-ARC cable to the one and only HDMI-ARC socket on the AVR. IF both devices support e-ARC, the connection should be automatic. In my case, that won’t happen because my older TV only has ARC, not e-ARC. Therefore, ARC must be manually enabled on both the TV and the AVR. Then (and this is what I failed to do), both devices must be powered down and restarted. Sometimes even the order of restart is significant.
So, this morning I will do the setup tango with both the Samsung and the Yamaha again, followed by restart(s). The cable I’m using is a brand new ultra high speed e-ARC capable one that should be fully backward compatible with ARC.
Is there anything that I’ve misunderstood or missed? Thanks again for the help - it’s appreciated!
Glenn
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 16, 2024 10:35:17 GMT -5
Actually, TOSLINK from the Cox cable box won’t do what I need. Why? If I’m watching a movie over cable, it would work fine. But if I’m watching a movie via Amazon Prime that the TV has pulled in over its Ethernet connection, the audio won’t “flow backwards” to the Cox cable box. Therefore, audio must be captured from the TV itself, not from either one of its two individual feeds. My only two options here are to either get ARC working or to get an optical feed from the TV itself. Having just read CNET’s ARC primer, my understanding is that the one and only HDMI-ARC socket on the TV must be connected by an ultra-high-speed, e-ARC cable to the one and only HDMI-ARC socket on the AVR. IF both devices support e-ARC, the connection should be automatic. In my case, that won’t happen because my older TV only has ARC, not e-ARC. Therefore, ARC must be manually enabled on both the TV and the AVR. Then (and this is what I failed to do), both devices must be powered down and restarted. Sometimes even the order of restart is significant. So, this morning I will do the setup tango with both the Samsung and the Yamaha again, followed by restart(s). The cable I’m using is a brand new ultra high speed e-ARC capable one that should be fully backward compatible with ARC. Is there anything that I’ve misunderstood or missed? Thanks again for the help - it’s appreciated! Glenn When you said you were using Toslink I was assuming that would be from the TV's Toslink output which would work with the Cox or the built-in TV apps. Here is how mine is set up: Cable box, Blu-Ray player and XBox connected to HDMI 1, 3 and 4 on my TV. The TV's ARC input (HDMI 2) connects to the processor's HDMI ARC output. (That connection will also serve as the normal output to the TV for video when ARC is NOT used.) When I want to use the TV speakers I just turn on the TV and either of the three connected sources or use an app in the TV. When I want to use the audio system I do the above and also turn on the processor selecting the HDMI/ARC input on it. I think yours is called TV. If all the setting on the TV and processor are correct you should then get audio going to the processor. You may have to select the proper audio output on the TV. And another way of doing it would be to get an HDMI splitter and split the feed from the Cox to both the processor and the TV.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 16, 2024 11:41:20 GMT -5
The online tutorial set me up. Once I rebooted both the TV and the AVR, the ARC works like a charm! Thanks again.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 19, 2024 7:48:15 GMT -5
A SPEAKER WIRE QUESTION: When I substituted a Yamaha AVR for my Monoblock power amps and rearranged my equipment shelf from a 2x wide low style to a 1x wide tower, my speaker wires no longer reached. The new equipment required that the wiring to my left speaker be about twice the length as the wiring to the right. Being the lazy thing that I've become, rather than terminate my own wire, I just ordered some from Amazon. The longer wire is 10AWG, the shorter 12AWG. Unfortunately, an unanticipated factor has complicated their installation. The wires are stiffer than a college freshman seeing LSU gymnast, Olivia Dunne for the first time. The difficulty in routing the wire has convinced me to just get some more flexible wires and use screw-on banana ends (I have a bunch in my spares organizer). One of my audio amigos is encouraging me to use 16AWG wire for the speakers. He claims that 16AWG is more than adequate for the current that my AVR can produce and that for the lengths I'll be using (15 and 8 feet) the added resistance is also trivial. In fact, he claims that since my speakers have some low-impedance dips (although "compatible with 8 ohms), if anything the wire resistance will help out the AVR. I've always been in the "bigger is better" camp for speaker wiring, but the audio amigo's system sounds awesome and HE only uses 16AWG. Your thoughts? And on another topic, novisnick asked what I thought of my Yamaha RX-V6A receiver: I set up the GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers as font R/L. I put one of the Klipsch RP-600m speakers as a center. I put the sub in place. I manually went into the Yamaha's speaker setup and lied, saying all three speakers were small and I wanted to use an 80 Hz. crossover. Then I ran YPAO. With YPAO, you get two choices - one measurement or eight. No in between. I chose eight. Moving the mic backward and forward, the total range of measurements was about two feet. Moving the mic side to side, the total range of measurements was about 2.5 to 3 feet. And then I put on an Amazon Prime movie. As an aside, I must say that ARC works perfectly. When the AVR is on, the TV automatically senses it, shuts off the TV speaker, and routes everything audio to the AVR. The TV remote control now controls the AVR volume. When I shut off the AVR, the TV internal speaker automatically takes over again. (thanks geebo). Dialogue is now intelligible. The AVR allows one to trim the center up or down to enhance audibility. Does YPAO compensate for an echoey room? It tries. But I'd describe its effect as "different" and only a little better. The multi-point sampling, however, is a huge improvement over the single point because it overcomes frequency response irregularities that can result from only a single sample. I'm going to check the speaker settings in the setup again. Did YPAO override my choices, changing speakers from small to large and overriding my crossover points? I'll let you know. I'm also going to try listening with YPAO temporarily turned off (I don't want to lose the eight samples I had the AVR do). Will I prefer the sound YPAO-less? I'll let you know. So how does the Yamaha sound? I've always liked the sound of Yamaha electronics, and, it turns out, I still do. Is this midrange Yamaha AVR the equivalent of my separates system? I'd like to say no, but honestly, I don't know for sure if I could tell the difference. Keep in mind, however, the factors that play into that statement: I don't listen loudly; my speakers are not hard to drive. Even so, I'm honestly little less than amazed that Yamaha can offer such fine sound quality at such a modest price. And that's the current report from Boomzilla-land.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 19, 2024 9:07:20 GMT -5
The online tutorial set me up. Once I rebooted both the TV and the AVR, the ARC works like a charm! Thanks again. I use eARC quite a bit now. The only downfall is that you lose the On Screen Display of the AVR. Fortunately there are apps I can use to navigate the AVR menus while using ARC/eARC.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 19, 2024 9:28:01 GMT -5
Sorry, geebo - my (older) Samsung TV, although 4K, doesn't support eARC.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 19, 2024 9:34:10 GMT -5
Sorry, geebo - my (older) Samsung TV, although 4K, doesn't support eARC. Well it still applies whether using ARC or eARC. The main disadvantage is that you lose the OSD with either assuming your AVR has an OSD to begin with.
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 19, 2024 10:39:52 GMT -5
A SPEAKER WIRE QUESTION: When I substituted a Yamaha AVR for my Monoblock power amps and rearranged my equipment shelf from a 2x wide low style to a 1x wide tower, my speaker wires no longer reached. The new equipment required that the wiring to my left speaker be about twice the length as the wiring to the right. Being the lazy thing that I've become, rather than terminate my own wire, I just ordered some from Amazon. The longer wire is 10AWG, the shorter 12AWG. Unfortunately, an unanticipated factor has complicated their installation. The wires are stiffer than a college freshman seeing LSU gymnast, Olivia Dunne for the first time. The difficulty in routing the wire has convinced me to just get some more flexible wires and use screw-on banana ends (I have a bunch in my spares organizer). One of my audio amigos is encouraging me to use 16AWG wire for the speakers. He claims that 16AWG is more than adequate for the current that my AVR can produce and that for the lengths I'll be using (15 and 8 feet) the added resistance is also trivial. In fact, he claims that since my speakers have some low-impedance dips (although "compatible with 8 ohms), if anything the wire resistance will help out the AVR. I've always been in the "bigger is better" camp for speaker wiring, but the audio amigo's system sounds awesome and HE only uses 16AWG. Your thoughts? And on another topic, novisnick asked what I thought of my Yamaha RX-V6A receiver: I set up the GoldenEar Triton 3+ speakers as font R/L. I put one of the Klipsch RP-600m speakers as a center. I put the sub in place. I manually went into the Yamaha's speaker setup and lied, saying all three speakers were small and I wanted to use an 80 Hz. crossover. Then I ran YPAO. With YPAO, you get two choices - one measurement or eight. No in between. I chose eight. Moving the mic backward and forward, the total range of measurements was about two feet. Moving the mic side to side, the total range of measurements was about 2.5 to 3 feet. And then I put on an Amazon Prime movie. As an aside, I must say that ARC works perfectly. When the AVR is on, the TV automatically senses it, shuts off the TV speaker, and routes everything audio to the AVR. The TV remote control now controls the AVR volume. When I shut off the AVR, the TV internal speaker automatically takes over again. (thanks geebo). Dialogue is now intelligible. The AVR allows one to trim the center up or down to enhance audibility. Does YPAO compensate for an echoey room? It tries. But I'd describe its effect as "different" and only a little better. The multi-point sampling, however, is a huge improvement over the single point because it overcomes frequency response irregularities that can result from only a single sample. I'm going to check the speaker settings in the setup again. Did YPAO override my choices, changing speakers from small to large and overriding my crossover points? I'll let you know. I'm also going to try listening with YPAO temporarily turned off (I don't want to lose the eight samples I had the AVR do). Will I prefer the sound YPAO-less? I'll let you know. So how does the Yamaha sound? I've always liked the sound of Yamaha electronics, and, it turns out, I still do. Is this midrange Yamaha AVR the equivalent of my separates system? I'd like to say no, but honestly, I don't know for sure if I could tell the difference. Keep in mind, however, the factors that play into that statement: I don't listen loudly; my speakers are not hard to drive. Even so, I'm honestly little less than amazed that Yamaha can offer such fine sound quality at such a modest price. And that's the current report from Boomzilla-land. If you want really flexible wire, this should do, and it is 10AWG. I have used this and it works fine. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0076SFE9Q/
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Jun 19, 2024 12:43:32 GMT -5
Boomzilla YPAO should compensate for much of the echo in your room BUT, I would most definitely run all eight readings over but with a wider area reading. Although my room with my Yamaha is rather large it does have a large soft sofa in it. If memory serves me, and it rarely does, Its 24’ x 20’.x 9’. I don’t get any echo but we do have different rooms and contents in them. On another note, my Yamaha AVR has a Burr Brown chip set and is one reason why I didn’t purchase the newer one as it used the ESS which was rather new to the market at the time. Wiring? I prefer a 12 AWG Copper oxygen free cable of equal lengths, no math or complications or worries about resistance maladies.
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Post by leonski on Jun 19, 2024 15:09:57 GMT -5
I must chime in on this: I use 10ga wire for my panels. Each speaker is getting 200watts (4ohms) X2. The amp for each speaker is no more than 24" away..... The BELDEN 10ga I use is of reasonable flexibility and is of fairly high strand count..... Speakers are lower sensitivity than YOURs, I'd guarantee that.......Magnepan is awful in that regard. I doubt I use more than 10% of rated, even loud enough to irritate the neighbors.
Still and all? I think the recommended 16 may be a little on the 'thin' side. And certainly 10 is useful for certain Extreme situations.
My opinion? 12 is OK, but I suspect 14 would be FINE. Canare 4S11? Blue Jeans calls it '14'. And is 4 wires in the jacket...... This works IF you can use the unique feature. Blue Jeans ALSO sells a 12ga Belden. You could order up a matched pair and include the Ultrasonic Welded connectors, which are gas tight forever. I personally AVOID 'coils' of any wire.....be they power or speaker or interconnect. You form a VERY low frequemcy inductor by that means and may accidently hit a 'cog'.......
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 19, 2024 16:11:39 GMT -5
novisnick & other Yamaha users - Some questions that are unclear from reading the manual: 1. Having run YPAO, how do I delete all YPAO information and revert to non-room-corrected sound? The manual says "disconnect the microphone while running YPAO," but that doesn't say whether the YPAO data that was previously there is deleted, or whether you're just reverting to the last YPAO cal. I could just reset the AVR, but I'd lose all the settings I've made so far (ARC, etc.). 2. There is a "pure direct" button via the remote, but does it work with ALL sources (including HDMI ones)? My experience with previous AVRs is that the "pure direct" mode ONLY applied to incoming analog sources. 3. If I do engage the "pure direct" mode, does that automatically disable bass management? In other words, will the subwoofer still function properly when that mode is engaged? Will the speaker settings (small/large) change automatically to "large?" The AVR is, indeed, a marvel of technology, but with that tech comes a corresponding level of complexity.
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Post by leonski on Jun 20, 2024 15:43:08 GMT -5
You hit it on the head, Boom........The TRICK to Hi-Tech is to turn complex into usable.
Features like VOICE control and TOUCH screens are to the good. Clear paths for feature use
and integration are mandatory.
LEXUS just dropped the control system in the LC500 Coupe. In its place was installed a TOUCH SCREEN
system. Previous system got Awful Reviews and nobody liked it.....Reviewers and Owners alike hated it.
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Post by KeithL on Jun 21, 2024 10:22:54 GMT -5
I agree on the idea... but probably not on your examples. From my experience Alexa seems to have a habit of playing the wrong songs... And I personally find most automotive touch screens to be somewhat annoying to use... I realize that, with modern systems, it would be impractical to do it any other way. (But on something like a simple radio I must prefer actual "clicky buttons" and "knobs that turn" to a touch screen.) You hit it on the head, Boom........The TRICK to Hi-Tech is to turn complex into usable. Features like VOICE control and TOUCH screens are to the good. Clear paths for feature use and integration are mandatory. LEXUS just dropped the control system in the LC500 Coupe. In its place was installed a TOUCH SCREEN system. Previous system got Awful Reviews and nobody liked it.....Reviewers and Owners alike hated it.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 21, 2024 10:51:20 GMT -5
15 watts is actually plenty for a small tweeter with a relatively high crossover - even on a big speaker. That said the one thing I would mention is that we have found that, while AMTs sound very good, they don't always work well with a simple crossover. (You sometimes need to do a bit of work on the crossover to get them to sound really good in a given application.) (In other words... if it doesn't sound great with a simple capacitor crossover... you may need to tweak the crossover design a bit.)
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Post by leonski on Jun 21, 2024 16:51:24 GMT -5
Just a suggestion, Keith.......
If you need a little more 'seperation'? A 2nd order. adding a coil might work. Or if you are a REAL overachiever?
Go the MiniDSP route and use some very steep slope.
In any event? You also may need some help with the mid-woof so that doesn't go TOO high into distortion / jagged output area.
Keep in mind this is a VERY budget idea and I originally just spitballd it fo just give Boom another data point......
And yes, 15 watts IS a lot given frequency response of tweeter. If woofer needs 35? You could get along fine
with a Total of 50 watts. I suspect a lot less. I don't know if it is still available, but my Parts Express amp of mayb
7 or 8 a side was 35$ delivered and is perfect for a garage system.....
And Keith? IF you are anywhere near a Lexus dealer? Call first and find out IF they have a '24 model LC500 for a
viewing. Might be worth a shot to just go LOOK. And read some reviews of the prior models with what was regarded
as a poor effort at interior feature control.....
Wife's Mazda has a UniButton control thing. Works fine, but IMO not to be messed with while driving......
For a 'mere' 100K$, this would be an end-game car. Just have a nice garage in which to park it when not in use......
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 23, 2024 10:44:24 GMT -5
Well, I put an offer in. We'll see what happens: FOLLOW UP - My offer was accepted and I now have the GoldenEar center channel speaker to match my front R/L Triton towers.
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