klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 2, 2014 20:40:15 GMT -5
Now wait a minute...nobody pit a poll question in about skinning horses!
But I will chime in...George's approach with the "last video used" approach does work for getting audio associated with an analog in. It does require programming a remote like a Harmony to enact (or do it manually). And, this does require to switch to the source that has the video one wants and then to the one with the analog in one wants.
It does not deal with the inability to choose the same HDMI physical input multiple times. There are also ways to overcome this (like using a bluray player with 2 HDMI outputs or using HDMI splitter) but this requires extra cabling. And I have a big enough rat's nest already.
What I would want is a tradeoff-free solution...I figure that in a pre/pro that costs $1999, if the capability was in one that cost far less (the umc-1), why should it not be in the higher line model?
Now, if bringing the feature created other issues, I would want to know the tradeoff and be able to change my vote if it required me to give up something else. But, it seems like a matter of programming...not reinvention of wheels.
Mark
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Post by sct on Sept 2, 2014 22:01:13 GMT -5
Stephen offered: "Current UMC-1 use case using the same source with multiple virtual inputs:
DVD - HDMI video and HDMI audio from BDP-93, subwoofer on via trigger, EQ, lip sync lag,...
CD - HDMI video and Analog audio from BDP-93, subwoofer off, no EQ, direct"
Yep, and there are others that I employ:
Input Name
DVD-A 2CH: HDMI audio and video for DVD-Audio 2 channel disc
DVD-A MCH: HDMI audio and video for DVD-Audio multi channel disc
DVDAA 2CH: Analog audio and HDMI video for DVD-Audio 2 channel disc
DVDAA MCH: Analog audio and HDMI video for DVD-Audio multi channel disc
DVDMM 2CH: HDMI audio and video for DVD-Audio 2 channel disc using Midnite Mode
DVDMM MCH: HDMI audio and video for DVD-Audio multi channel disc using Midnite Mode
TV NRML: HDMI audio and video for normal viewing
TV LATE: HDMI audio and video for late night (Midnite Mode)
And on and on, up to 16 choices! And the XMC-1's better OLED display would allow for more descriptive input names. The UMC-1 allowed for enormous flexibility with a single virtual Input choice. And the XMC-1 should most certainly retain this capability...
SCT
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 2, 2014 22:58:46 GMT -5
Why take an obstructionist position? If the capability for fully programmable virtual inputs doesn't appeal to you, then don't use the feature if/when it is implemented in the XMC-1. Why argue against it? You have no vested interest in whether or not Emo adds this feature, do you? From the perspective of probability theory, the sample size of this poll is too small to be statistically significant. All that can be said is the obvious: of those who responded to the poll, the vast majority are in favor of endowing the XMC-1 with this feature.  Firstly, let me point out the number of smileys (more than 20) I have inserted into my posts on this topic, hint, maybe there is a small amount of chain jerking going on.  More to the point, I think claiming victory and demanding work be commenced based on, as you correctly point out, a statistically insignificant sample size is somewhat pre-emptive. To answer the "why argue against" it question, I don't know what the consequences of the requested change might be. A price increase perhaps, hardware changes (free freight for US customers but not for me), unexpected firmware repercussions etc. We all know that changes were made in the UMC-1 firmware as a result of a small minority of owners whinging that had detrimental effects on other features that were used more often by many more owners eg; UMC-1 & 176.4K, still a burning point with many Sony BD owners. I just would prefer that the tiny noisy minority don't push through a change that may well adversely affect the silent majority. It's not like we can select which parts of a firmware update we can implement. Let's say that in one firmware release there are 50 good updates, that I want and say 1 update that I don't want. Because of its highly detrimental repercussions. I don't get to choose, I either take the whole 51 or none. So within the wink, wink, nudge, nudge sarcasm there is a modicum of "oh no, not again!". Before the jumping up and down starts, having carried out hundreds (maybe thousands) of firmware updates I have yet to find many that didn't have unforseen detrimental affects. Not knocking Emotiva in any way, it happens to everyone. Cheers Gary |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 2, 2014 23:14:04 GMT -5
OK Gary, but you've now you've had 9 posts to make this point (yes I counted), maybe there's a feature you would like to support instead.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 3, 2014 10:02:00 GMT -5
Thanks AudioHTIT...I fully concur. Gary Cook I do kindly request that you do not mischaracterize my statements and to please stop trying to yank anyone's chain. In no place have I "declared victory and demanded" anything. I have said the data look compelling and asked Lonnie/Dan to consider the data. Oh, and by the way, I did some rudimentary statistical analysis and the votes for option #1 are (overwhelmingly) statistically significant at 95% confidence relative to the "no" option. Even option #2 is statistically significant at 95% confidence vs. the "no" option. And, the "no" option is not statistically different from 0%. And, option #1 in the poll is even statistically significant vs. the combined "no/indifferent" result. So, while I won't declare "victory"...I will say that it is very clear to me what people think on the topic. Mark |
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 3, 2014 14:56:09 GMT -5
It's time for a group hug! Even Lounge Lizards can do it.   |
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Post by bluescale on Sept 3, 2014 16:35:01 GMT -5
I don't agree with your premise Mark. With 418 thread viewers (to date) it appears to me that less than 10% have voted for it as being "very important". So 90% of the thread readers didn't think it was important enough to even vote. Don't thread views increment every time a person returns to a thread? In other words, they aren't unique viewers. |
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Post by kurthaudio on Sept 3, 2014 18:28:46 GMT -5
I voted yes very important to me. I don't know exactly how much i would use this feature but i do know that i would. The XMC1 is touted as: "beyond All Expectations Introducing the AV preamp that redefines everything you know about home theater—on every level. With custom Dirac Live™ 7.2, Ultra HD 3GHz HDMI, and a balanced audiophile-grade signal path, this made-in-the USA masterpiece goes head-to-head with AV preamps costing 10X as much. Pretty strong words. If the entry level pre/pro can do this and emotiva admits it CAN be done. I see no reason why it shouldn't.  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 3, 2014 20:02:56 GMT -5
OK Gary, but you've now you've had 9 posts to make this point (yes I counted), maybe there's a feature you would like to support instead. More than half of my posts were in response to questions, if people ask I respond were I can. If I did have another feature I'd like to support I wouldn't do it in this thread, that would be off topic. In regards to this topic (poll) I'll stand by my previous posts, I don't see any logical use for the requested change and that the responses represent too small a number to be relevant. I apologise if that doesn't sit well with some, but at all times I respect your right to have a different opinion and express it as you see fit. Cheers Gary |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 3, 2014 22:55:21 GMT -5
Yes… this is a feature I would LOVE to see back. I was upset that the UMC-200 didn't carry it over. However, there are other advertised enhancements/features I want to see fulfilled first (like USB support for 192k). Oh, and definitely not before those few "bugs" are vetted…  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 4, 2014 6:14:19 GMT -5
We'll said doc...fully agree!
Mark
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 4, 2014 9:05:32 GMT -5
that the responses represent too small a number to be relevant. I apologise if that doesn't sit well with some, but at all times I respect your right to have a different opinion and express it as you see fit. Cheers Gary Putting the actual topic aside, your opinion about the ratio of votes to thread views is simply wrong, and that's a fact. Every time someone comes in this thread to take a look it adds another view. For example, if 100 people come in and vote, then they all come back the next day to see how the results are going, it would show 100 votes to 200 views. Using you as an example, you presumably came to this thread and voted the first time. 1 vote, 1 view. Since then you have posted like 10 more times. So now your own ratio is 1 vote and 10 views. I've come in here and viewed several times without posting. So my ratio is also at least 1 vote to 10 views. Between the two of us that's 2 votes and 20 views. That's not statistics. The number that you might say is low is the total number of people who have voted. But again that is only relevant to the number of people who come to this forum everyday and check the "newest threads" box to see the latest and greatest. You might be assuming that number is in the 1000's, but I'd bet it's not even close to that. Without factual data neither one of us can say for sure. This thread has not been around all that long, and based off my experience with poll threads from here and on other forums, the amount of votes Mark has gotten already is quite high actually. And the thing is, the longer time goes by, the less voting will take place, mainly because this thread will just get buried as new threads are created. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 4, 2014 15:11:24 GMT -5
+1...right on!
Mark
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 4, 2014 16:43:23 GMT -5
that the responses represent too small a number to be relevant. I apologise if that doesn't sit well with some, but at all times I respect your right to have a different opinion and express it as you see fit. Putting the actual topic aside, your opinion about the ratio of votes to thread views is simply wrong, and that's a fact. Every time someone comes in this thread to take a look it adds another view. For example, if 100 people come in and vote, then they all come back the next day to see how the results are going, it would show 100 votes to 200 views. Using you as an example, you presumably came to this thread and voted the first time. 1 vote, 1 view. Since then you have posted like 10 more times. So now your own ratio is 1 vote and 10 views. I've come in here and viewed several times without posting. So my ratio is also at least 1 vote to 10 views. Between the two of us that's 2 votes and 20 views. That's not statistics. The number that you might say is low is the total number of people who have voted. But again that is only relevant to the number of people who come to this forum everyday and check the "newest threads" box to see the latest and greatest. You might be assuming that number is in the 1000's, but I'd bet it's not even close to that. Without factual data neither one of us can say for sure. This thread has not been around all that long, and based off my experience with poll threads from here and on other forums, the amount of votes Mark has gotten already is quite high actually. And the thing is, the longer time goes by, the less voting will take place, mainly because this thread will just get buried as new threads are created. I understand the ratio of viewers to voters but the main thrust of my comment (please go back and read it, in its entirety, not just what has been selectively quoted) was in regards to the number of people with XMC-1 's and the number of people who voted. Plainly there are a lot of owners who don't see a problem. XMC-1's have to date been supplied to people on a waiting list for ~2 years with thousands of posts regarding updates and speculation on this forum. Consequently I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that any current owner who is missing the requested feature would notice the poll and vote. Many would seek it out if it so badly affected them. I also agree with your comment on posts getting passed over by newer ones and yet I was castigated for what was in effect bumping it. BTW the number of people logged in at any time is viewable. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bonzo on Sept 4, 2014 18:00:45 GMT -5
I understand the ratio of viewers to voters but the main thrust of my comment (please go back and read it, in its entirety, not just what has been selectively quoted) was in regards to the number of people with XMC-1 's and the number of people who voted. Plainly there are a lot of owners who don't see a problem. XMC-1's have to date been supplied to people on a waiting list for ~2 years with thousands of posts regarding updates and speculation on this forum. Consequently I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that any current owner who is missing the requested feature would notice the poll and vote. Many would seek it out if it so badly affected them. I also agree with your comment on posts getting passed over by newer ones and yet I was castigated for what was in effect bumping it. BTW the number of people logged in at any time is viewable. Cheers Gary I understood everything you said on this thread and about the topic until you made this post. It's flat out wrong. And yes, I read everything in it's entirety. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/668266/threadWithout knowing how many people actually own XMC's now, it's all speculation. You think thousands? I think not. Besides, even people who do have them are still learning about them, and I think those people are more likely to be doing some first hand learning, not coming on the forum to figure things out. My guess is the larger amount of people still reading XMC-1 posts daily right now are the people who don't have them yet. People on the fence, people waiting for the bugs to be worked out, people waiting to see what's missing. Those are the more likely people to be voting on such a poll this soon after the product's release. And I'd be willing to bet that while there are a lot of Emotivites who have gone and bought the XMC-1 site unseen, there are equally that many, if not many more, that are waiting to see how it all works out. I'm not knocking your feeling about the topic at all, that is your opinion. But when it comes to the poll stats, you have not been accurate. The only concrete numbers we have on this poll that are currently relevant are the number of total votes, and the percentages within those votes. My opinion is the number of votes is fairly high for a poll that's only been going for 2 days, and the facts are that of the voters, almost everyone thinks it's a great feature to have. A large majority even say it's very important. You don't understand everyone's "want" for this feature? That's fine, you don't want it, I'm cool with that. You've said your piece. I don't understand your obstinateness to keep arguing against it, like all of us who want it are being excited about nothing. Why in the world anyone wouldn't want more hookup and and set up options is beyond me, especially when it could just be a matter of a free firmware update. But, it's beyond me because it's important to me. Someone a long while back posted in another thread that people who wanted analog inputs were just being old fashioned and stupid and that only HDMI was necessary. Really?  Really? ? You certainly are not saying that, but it's on the same path. And for the life of me I can't understand it. I guess that makes us even. I'm done here. Cheers --- Bonzo |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 4, 2014 18:19:43 GMT -5
+1
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Post by unsound on Sept 4, 2014 18:39:08 GMT -5
In regards to this topic (poll) I'll stand by my previous posts, I don't see any logical use for the requested change and that the responses represent too small a number to be relevant. I apologise if that doesn't sit well with some, but at all times I respect your right to have a different opinion and express it as you see fit. Cheers Gary I understand the ratio of viewers to voters but the main thrust of my comment (please go back and read it, in its entirety, not just what has been selectively quoted) was in regards to the number of people with XMC-1 's and the number of people who voted. Plainly there are a lot of owners who don't see a problem. XMC-1's have to date been supplied to people on a waiting list for ~2 years with thousands of posts regarding updates and speculation on this forum. Consequently I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that any current owner who is missing the requested feature would notice the poll and vote. Many would seek it out if it so badly affected them. I also agree with your comment on posts getting passed over by newer ones and yet I was castigated for what was in effect bumping it. BTW the number of people logged in at any time is viewable. Cheers Gary The viewing and voting population is a statistical representation of the owners. It doesn't necessarily need to be large fraction of the total owners. For instance, do you think Nielsen ratings actually samples a significant portion of the viewing population to come up with their ratings? Assuming that our expected result is 50% yes and 50% no votes, the sample size of 80 gives us a confidence level of about 80% with a confidence interval of 5%. If you modify the expected result to be 70% Yes (or No) and 30% No (or Yes), the confidence level goes up to 84%. I think that's pretty good for what Mark's trying to achieve. I was too lazy to do the full math, but I think at about 150 votes, we get a 99% confidence level with a 5% confidence interval. There are plenty of articles on the relationship between sample size, confidence level and confidence interval so I won't quote any here - you can pick whatever you find best. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 4, 2014 19:27:02 GMT -5
Quite right unsound...good analogy re. Nielsen ratings (and I will add for any public poll...many are offered a chance to respond, some respond & some don't, but enough respond to get a representative population on which statistics, such as the statistical analysis I used, are quite indicative of the broader population). The same stats I used to declare a significant difference are used to "call" elections on election night with a relatively few % of votes in, and other than the quite infamous "Dewey Defeats Truman" are right far more often than they are wrong. (And note, the base size has grown and the % Yes, very important has grown since I did my stats...)
To Gary Cook's point about "Plainly there are a lot of owners who don't see a problem", while I do agree that there are many who have one and are "OK" with it (like geebo as a lead example) there are others who already have it who really, really want it and were surprised/disappointed it didn't have the feature (there are various posts around the forum about it in various threads). Moreover, there are a lot who have not yet had their chance to purchase and now that they know about this - it's a factor in whether they will buy or not (that's my case). This poll shows that it is not a small % that really wants it. In fact, it's a very large %. So, take all the pot shots you want, but statistically (using commonly accepted and broadly used statistical analysis) I am taking a very, very small chance in saying that and being wrong.
Now, I just hope we will here from Emotiva that they are deciding to work on this. Hopefully, someone at this weekend's show will ask!
Mark
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tesla
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Post by tesla on Sept 4, 2014 19:52:12 GMT -5
I understand the ratio of viewers to voters but the main thrust of my comment (please go back and read it, in its entirety, not just what has been selectively quoted) was in regards to the number of people with XMC-1 's and the number of people who voted. Plainly there are a lot of owners who don't see a problem. [ fallacy: non sequitur reasoning ] XMC-1's have to date been supplied to people on a waiting list for ~2 years with thousands of posts regarding updates and speculation on this forum. Consequently I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that any current owner who is missing the requested feature would notice the poll and vote. [ non sequitur ]In VCR days, many of my friends had recorders with flashing time displays, because they had never figured out how to set their clocks. I suspect many owners similarly never figured out how to take full advantage of the virtual inputs on the UMC-1, either. But some of us did, and we'd like to continue enjoying that functionality with the XMC-1. Please stop raining on our parade. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 4, 2014 20:47:25 GMT -5
Obviously we will just leave it to the good judgement and skill of the folks at Emotiva. Whether 50 (as at now, who think it's important) is enough to warrant taking the chance on fixing their problem whilst avoiding creating another one that affects more owners. If I may be so bold as to quote geebo; Don't misunderstand, I have no objections to virtual inputs so long as their inclusion does not affect some other feature or performance in any way. Cheers Gary |
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Really?
