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Post by flak on Dec 30, 2014 16:02:22 GMT -5
@ socketman Yes, as Tony says Dirac Live does very well what it is intended to do, but as I mentioned before that does not include bass management. For an "automatic" optimal and simple to use solution with multiple subwoofers what we need to do is to jointly optimize several separate filters to attain the best combination... that is a filter design task that Dirac Unison will solve beautifully and automatically. That does not mean that we cannot get excellent results today, but it is more work and measurements... I think that Tony (besides Emotiva of course) can be of great help. @ Mike Ronesia Thanks Mike, we wish a great 2015 to you, to all forumers and to Emotiva who has been able to think different and offer a level of performance which up to now was attained only by a few.  Flavio |
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Post by socketman on Dec 30, 2014 19:03:46 GMT -5
Flavio In the end I will probable just get a minidsp or another antimode to handle the bass. No one product can be everything to everyone. It great that we have people who test independently and share their valuable knowledge.
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 19:10:05 GMT -5
Flavio In the end I will probable just get a minidsp or another antimode to handle the bass. No one product can be everything to everyone. It great that we have people who test independently and share their valuable knowledge. I have a minidsp on the way. (never used one - So I will document and use REW + the EMM microphone to make a write up.) Tony |
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Post by socketman on Dec 30, 2014 19:12:59 GMT -5
Flavio In the end I will probable just get a minidsp or another antimode to handle the bass. No one product can be everything to everyone. It great that we have people who test independently and share their valuable knowledge. I have a minidsp on the way. (never used one - So I will document and use REW + the EMM microphone to make a write up.) Tony I look forward to that. Which one did you get, I was just at the Minidsp site and will be looking at the manual to see if setting delays is an available option. Looks like delay can be set 0>15ms |
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 19:22:46 GMT -5
I grabbed a used one off the forum and the 2wayadv plugin.  playing with it - it looks like I have 6 PEQ for each of the two inputs and 6 PEQ for each of the 4 outputs. Each output has a delay adjustment and it looks like it will do 4 subwoofers just fine. Tony |
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Post by socketman on Dec 30, 2014 19:33:38 GMT -5
I just looked at the data sheet for that plugin and it says 7.5ms in .2ms steps. which should be sufficient unless you have a massive distance between the subs.
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Post by lbrown105 on Dec 30, 2014 20:44:22 GMT -5
I recall in the 2 channel Dirac Live (the full version) you can couple channels together and get the combined response too. Did anyone with the 8 channel version confirm if you have full ability to couple channels together? If so, that should solve the combined sub response issue. I have the minidsp but it only has 7.5ms of delay which is not enough for my rear sub. One of the reasons I bought the XMC-1 is I gained so much more delay control with two sub outs. The Dirac corrections is amazing especially with respect to the impulse response. I only hope the coupling of channels will fix the combine bass response for multiple subs. Doe anyone have an ETA on the full version? I haven't checked today but yesterday the link was still a 404 error.
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 21:23:26 GMT -5
I recall in the 2 channel Dirac Live (the full version) you can couple channels together and get the combined response too. Did anyone with the 8 channel version confirm if you have full ability to couple channels together? If so, that should solve the combined sub response issue. I have the minidsp but it only has 7.5ms of delay which is not enough for my rear sub. One of the reasons I bought the XMC-1 is I gained so much more delay control with two sub outs. The Dirac corrections is amazing especially with respect to the impulse response. I only hope the coupling of channels will fix the combine bass response for multiple subs. Doe anyone have an ETA on the full version? I haven't checked today but yesterday the link was still a 404 error. In your set I would run stereo subs then run Dirac, then configure the minidsp to get the additional delay needed to get them in phase. Tony |
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Post by socketman on Dec 30, 2014 21:23:43 GMT -5
"I recall in the 2 channel Dirac Live (the full version) you can couple channels together and get the combined response too. Did anyone with the 8 channel version confirm if you have full ability to couple channels together? If so, that should solve the combined sub response issue. I have the minidsp but it only has 7.5ms of delay which is not enough for my rear sub. One of the reasons I bought the XMC-1 is I gained so much more delay control with two sub outs"
Interesting, pretty much dash's my hopes of using one of those. I did notice the minidsp 10x10 has a 15ms delay but its 500 Somali's. Maybe a behringer or some such.
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Post by lbrown105 on Dec 30, 2014 21:54:02 GMT -5
I recall in the 2 channel Dirac Live (the full version) you can couple channels together and get the combined response too. Did anyone with the 8 channel version confirm if you have full ability to couple channels together? If so, that should solve the combined sub response issue. I have the minidsp but it only has 7.5ms of delay which is not enough for my rear sub. One of the reasons I bought the XMC-1 is I gained so much more delay control with two sub outs. The Dirac corrections is amazing especially with respect to the impulse response. I only hope the coupling of channels will fix the combine bass response for multiple subs. Doe anyone have an ETA on the full version? I haven't checked today but yesterday the link was still a 404 error. In your set I would run stereo subs then run Dirac, then configure the minidsp to get the additional delay needed to get them in phase. Tony Do you think stereo subs or dual mono? I have never been a fan of stereo subs unless the subs are directly under the L&R channels which mine are not. I hadn't really thought about trying the mini after Dirac though, I had been adjusting before hand. I'll give it a try tomorrow. |
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Post by lbrown105 on Dec 30, 2014 21:57:44 GMT -5
"I recall in the 2 channel Dirac Live (the full version) you can couple channels together and get the combined response too. Did anyone with the 8 channel version confirm if you have full ability to couple channels together? If so, that should solve the combined sub response issue. I have the minidsp but it only has 7.5ms of delay which is not enough for my rear sub. One of the reasons I bought the XMC-1 is I gained so much more delay control with two sub outs" Interesting, pretty much dash's my hopes of using one of those. I did notice the minidsp 10x10 has a 15ms delay but its 500 Somali's. Maybe a behringer or some such. the minis are really nice with a great user interface. Too bad they didn't allow more delay on the less expensive ones too. I am only using three of the four channels and I was told you can loop an output back into the open input for an additional 7.5ms of delay but I haven't tried it yet. |
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 21:58:24 GMT -5
In your set I would run stereo subs then run Dirac, then configure the minidsp to get the additional delay needed to get them in phase. Tony Do you think stereo subs or dual mono? I have never been a fan of stereo subs unless the subs are directly under the L&R channels which mine are not. I hadn't really thought about trying the mini after Dirac though, I had been adjusting before hand. I'll give it a try tomorrow. You are correct, Dual Mono. Just let dirac do its thing. Make sure that you take some screenshots of what dirac wants to do to the subwoofers. Once you phase align, you will still probably get some cancelation across the 10 to 150hz. Try to stay no more then +3 for the PEQ on the minidsp unless you are sure dirac didn't add any gain. Tony |
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Post by jking on Dec 31, 2014 13:50:53 GMT -5
Flavio In the end I will probable just get a minidsp or another antimode to handle the bass. No one product can be everything to everyone. It great that we have people who test independently and share their valuable knowledge. I have a minidsp on the way. (never used one - So I will document and use REW + the EMM microphone to make a write up.) Tony What does this mini dsp do? can you run and use room control independent with it. I have always taken the jess is more approach to sound the less you have to use the better? I worked in one studio where once we started over dubs and sweetening nothing went through the sound board on the way to tape. It went fron the mic to an API or NEVE Pre amp then maybe a compressor the right to tape then we got the return send into the board after the fact. Anyway this is different. The XMC being so quite where are you putting the MiniDsp and would not a dedicated sub woofer room correction work better. I understand that Dirac is going to market on early in the new year for muti sub setups looks interesting enough to wait a few months (for me) to wait and see what it is, |
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Post by ansat on Dec 31, 2014 15:33:29 GMT -5
I have a minidsp on the way. (never used one - So I will document and use REW + the EMM microphone to make a write up.) Tony What does this mini dsp do? can you run and use room control independent with it. I have always taken the jess is more approach to sound the less you have to use the better? I worked in one studio where once we started over dubs and sweetening nothing went through the sound board on the way to tape. It went fron the mic to an API or NEVE Pre amp then maybe a compressor the right to tape then we got the return send into the board after the fact. Anyway this is different. The XMC being so quite where are you putting the MiniDsp and would not a dedicated sub woofer room correction work better. I understand that Dirac is going to market on early in the new year for muti sub setups looks interesting enough to wait a few months (for me) to wait and see what it is, The minidsp is just what it says. A little DSP box. the one that I am using is 2 inputs and 4 outputs. There is a few different programming packs that you an buy for this to achieve different results. The program that I have was designed for making an active crossover / DPS for a pair of 2 way speakers. But I will be using it to control my subwoofers. It gives me a fully controllable high pass and low pass, as well as some DSP and control over the delays (to phase align). I will use REW and program this manually. Is this better then a subwoofer room correction. I think so. Being able to control how much your willing to sacrifice for other seating locations is really important and no ARC out there lets you make those decisions. Dirac in a multi subwoofer environment will need some external DSP if you want perfection. While I do not agree with the less is more approach, I grabbed the minidsp as I am currently using a behringer feedback destroyer and my crown amp as a dsp as well as the subwoofer controls on the sub. I would rather control all this with a single minidsp. Tony |
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Post by ansat on Dec 31, 2014 21:05:15 GMT -5
I have a minidsp on the way. (never used one - So I will document and use REW + the EMM microphone to make a write up.) Tony I look forward to that. Which one did you get, I was just at the Minidsp site and will be looking at the manual to see if setting delays is an available option. Looks like delay can be set 0>15ms The minidsp is so easy. Much easier then the XMC, my feedback destroyer or my crown amp. Tony |
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Post by Jim on Dec 31, 2014 22:36:47 GMT -5
I look forward to that. Which one did you get, I was just at the Minidsp site and will be looking at the manual to see if setting delays is an available option. Looks like delay can be set 0>15ms The minidsp is so easy. Much easier then the XMC, my feedback destroyer or my crown amp. Tony Importing biquads from REW is pretty sweet too. I got rid of my BFDs. Way too time consuming compared to using MiniDSPs. |
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Post by ansat on Dec 31, 2014 22:59:31 GMT -5
The minidsp is so easy. Much easier then the XMC, my feedback destroyer or my crown amp. Tony Importing biquads from REW is pretty sweet too. I got rid of my BFDs. Way too time consuming compared to using MiniDSPs. I am about 30% through a tutorial for the forum on subwoofer usage. Haven't decided if I will include the importing. |
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Post by Jim on Dec 31, 2014 23:02:43 GMT -5
Importing biquads from REW is pretty sweet too. I got rid of my BFDs. Way too time consuming compared to using MiniDSPs. I am about 30% through a tutorial for the forum on subwoofer usage. Haven't decided if I will include the importing. That's great! Still seems like few people are familiar with MiniDSPs. |
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Post by jking on Dec 31, 2014 23:03:41 GMT -5
I will be watching the results
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 1, 2015 2:49:40 GMT -5
The answer is simple, one sub woofer. Trying to get multiple subs each with with 17 metre (20 hz) wavelengths to operate correctly in the average domestic room is an exercise in frustration. Non symetrical layouts just make it even harder. Frankly I don't find the results worth the effort, a good quality single sub with a decent power amp has done it better for me without the pain and heartache.
Happy New Year
Gary
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Flavio
