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Post by jutta on Jan 3, 2015 17:57:16 GMT -5
I have twin PSA XS30's that replaced a single SVS PB12 plus
The XS30's are much better with music I've found.
With movies its a toss up. The XS30 does go deep and it thumps unlike anything else I've heard but the SVS is low. It rumbled deep.
For mine I'd go either a pair of XS30's if sealed preferred. If ported I'd step up to the SVS PB13 Ultra
Either way you're winning
The SVS looks better and I don't like the side panel controls and cord placement of the xs30 but that's what you get with twin driver 15" subs, but gotta love their output
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Post by garbulky on Jan 3, 2015 18:21:16 GMT -5
I have twin PSA XS30's that replaced a single SVS PB12 plus The XS30's are much better with music I've found. With movies its a toss up. The XS30 does go deep and it thumps unlike anything else I've heard but the SVS is low. It rumbled deep. For mine I'd go either a pair of XS30's if sealed preferred. If ported I'd step up to the SVS PB13 Ultra Either way you're winning The SVS looks better and I don't like the side panel controls and cord placement of the xs30 but that's what you get with twin driver 15" subs, but gotta love their output I spoke with Tom at PSA and I mentioned how impressive even a single XV15 in a large room was. He urged me to also check out the sealed versions in smaller rooms as he felt they were pretty impressive. |
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djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
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Post by djreef on Jan 3, 2015 18:48:12 GMT -5
Well, then - go with stereo subs crossed over at 150-200Hz and you'll solve the problem of directionality. Fixed. Rhythmik, Powersound, and SVS all make top flight subs that will work splendidly. You may fnd that a pair of SB-2000s works better for your room than a single SB13. DJ SO what you are suggesting is to basically run the maggies as if they were satelite speakers? Yep. Let the subs do the heavy lifting. By letting the subs take the LF burden you free up the mains to do the things that they do best. By eliminating the LF burden from the mains you eliminate the long excursions that the diaphragms don't do very well to begin with. It's a common sense thing, really. Plus by doing stereo subs vs the single SB-13 you gain 88% more cone area (two 12" vs one 13.5") and don't lose a single watt of output. Win win all the way around. DJ |
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Post by jcam2881 on Jan 3, 2015 19:20:31 GMT -5
I have twin PSA XS30's that replaced a single SVS PB12 plus The XS30's are much better with music I've found. With movies its a toss up. The XS30 does go deep and it thumps unlike anything else I've heard but the SVS is low. It rumbled deep. For mine I'd go either a pair of XS30's if sealed preferred. If ported I'd step up to the SVS PB13 Ultra Either way you're winning The SVS looks better and I don't like the side panel controls and cord placement of the xs30 but that's what you get with twin driver 15" subs, but gotta love their output I spoke with Tom at PSA and I mentioned how impressive even a single XV15 in a large room was. He urged me to also check out the sealed versions in smaller rooms as he felt they were pretty impressive. Im pretty certain I can break a few windows with the one svs sub I have .. It hits that low and hard. If I didn't have current layout I would go w the sealed rather than ported.. Had to hide the sub when the lady went on a work trip behind the bookshelf.. Not ideal! But +1 for me at least I got it in the door. |
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Post by jutta on Jan 4, 2015 5:01:18 GMT -5
I had them spread but recently stacked my XS30's. Turned it in to a whole new experience........ Massive increase in LFE output. That's my 8 year old son.....   |
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Post by jutta on Jan 4, 2015 5:02:46 GMT -5
I needed some floor space!!!! Lol
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Post by flatpicker on Jan 4, 2015 10:00:47 GMT -5
I had them spread but recently stacked my XS30's. Turned it in to a whole new experience........ Massive increase in LFE output. That's my 8 year old son..... Cool, but is that their best sounding orientation? |
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Post by jutta on Jan 4, 2015 19:28:29 GMT -5
Well the second option is to put one back in its box and in to storage so I'm going with yes it's their best sounding orientation.....in my current room.
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 4, 2015 19:45:46 GMT -5
SO what you are suggesting is to basically run the maggies as if they were satelite speakers? Yep. Let the subs do the heavy lifting. By letting the subs take the LF burden you free up the mains to do the things that they do best. By eliminating the LF burden from the mains you eliminate the long excursions that the diaphragms don't do very well to begin with. It's a common sense thing, really. Plus by doing stereo subs vs the single SB-13 you gain 88% more cone area (two 12" vs one 13.5") and don't lose a single watt of output. Win win all the way around. DJ Precisely! I understand. However, the way a maggie reproduces bass is different from the way a subwoofer does. When I run test tones I can unmistakable hear a difference. That is, if I run a 80hz test tone from both the subwoofer and then the speakers there is a discernible difference in the frequency response. |
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Post by emotifan on Jan 4, 2015 20:03:40 GMT -5
I strongly believe in running two subs in stereo. In fact I think spending the equivalent amount on two lesser expensive subs is better than spending it all on one. Here is a link that does a good job of explaining the benefits. kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm. I am currently running two Paradigm SE 10 inch subs with my Magnepan MMGs. There's a shop on eBay that's been selling these for 489.99, which is where I got mine. I started out with just one and was pretty impressed with it by itself but after getting the second one it's a huge increase in definition and speed. Each sub only has to work half as hard. I just popped for Paradigm's PBK system to tune the subs to my room and oh my! Seamless bass from the bottom on up. Another reason I went with these is because the shop I bought the MMGs through was augmenting the bass of a pair of 3.7s with just one of these. |
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Post by flatpicker on Jan 4, 2015 20:28:12 GMT -5
I strongly believe in running two subs in stereo. In fact I think spending the equivalent amount on two lesser expensive subs is better than spending it all on one. Here is a link that does a good job of explaining the benefits. kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm. I am currently running two Paradigm SE 10 inch subs with my Magnepan MMGs. There's a shop on eBay that's been selling these for 489.99, which is where I got mine. I started out with just one and was pretty impressed with it by itself but after getting the second one it's a huge increase in definition and speed. Each sub only has to work half as hard. I just popped for Paradigm's PBK system to tune the subs to my room and oh my! Seamless bass from the bottom on up. Another reason I went with these is because the shop I bought the MMGs through was augmenting the bass of a pair of 3.7s with just one of these. After reading the link, that's kinda the tipping point for me... I was already curious, but the idea of mono sub's losing tones due to cancellations, makes me wonder what I have been missing. Thanks for the link... |
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Post by jutta on Jan 4, 2015 21:20:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure about them having to work only half as hard as the increase in SPL is only marginal, around 3-5dbl. What you do increase is quality and that's where it's at for me. Twins all the way.
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 4, 2015 21:24:02 GMT -5
I currently run two old Paradigm 15a servo subs and they can go low and loud very easily! In addition, they produce a very "punchy" bass.  |
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djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
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Post by djreef on Jan 5, 2015 0:35:27 GMT -5
Yep. Let the subs do the heavy lifting. By letting the subs take the LF burden you free up the mains to do the things that they do best. By eliminating the LF burden from the mains you eliminate the long excursions that the diaphragms don't do very well to begin with. It's a common sense thing, really. Plus by doing stereo subs vs the single SB-13 you gain 88% more cone area (two 12" vs one 13.5") and don't lose a single watt of output. Win win all the way around. DJ Precisely! I understand. However, the way a maggie reproduces bass is different from the way a subwoofer does. When I run test tones I can unmistakable hear a difference. That is, if I run a 80hz test tone from both the subwoofer and then the speakers there is a discernible difference in the frequency response. Yes, what you're hearing is distortion. Look, a bass note is a bass note. One shouldn't sound different from the other if it's the same note irrespective of the source, unless something is happening to the timber of the frequency. Unless you're experiencing phase anomalies, which is quite possible considering the backwave for a planar is the polar opposite of the front wave. By mounting your subs behind the Mags you could be experiencing cancellations at the crossover threshold simply because both speakers are out of phase with each other. Mount the subs to the side and I think most of that would clean right up. DJ |
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 5, 2015 0:44:14 GMT -5
Precisely! I understand. However, the way a maggie reproduces bass is different from the way a subwoofer does. When I run test tones I can unmistakable hear a difference. That is, if I run a 80hz test tone from both the subwoofer and then the speakers there is a discernible difference in the frequency response. Yes, what you're hearing is distortion. Look, a bass note is a bass note. One shouldn't sound different from the other if it's the same note irrespective of the source, unless something is happening to the timber of the frequency. DJ I disagree. I think I didn't make myself clear I apologise. Moreover, I am not suggesting a 80hz test tone is different but the frequency response from the listening position is. |
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Post by emotifan on Jan 5, 2015 21:08:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure about them having to work only half as hard as the increase in SPL is only marginal, around 3-5dbl. What you do increase is quality and that's where it's at for me. Twins all the way. A 3 db gain in volume requires exactly twice the output of an amp, so they are working half as hard. Actually if you hook the subs up in stereo without touching the gain on the sub there shouldn't be any gain in spl because the subs are no longer receiving two channels that are summed to mono. So if the amplifier in your single sub is putting out 300 watts to produce 80 db at 40 hz, then adding another sub and splitting them to stereo will only require the amp in each sub to put out 150 watts to produce 77 db, bringing the total spl to 80. The most important part though is the excursion of each sub's woofer cone is shorter creating less distortion. Actually there may be a little more total spl from the stereo subs because out of phase portions of the two signals summed to a single sub are no longer canceling each other out going through one driver. I'm not sure if those out of phase portions are canceled in the air or not. Probably depends on the room. |
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Post by jutta on Jan 5, 2015 21:32:42 GMT -5
I have L/R sub outs on my AVR (x4000) with XT32. I like how it sounds and that's what's important. A bit OT anyway for the OP
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Post by cavemananalog on Jan 5, 2015 21:34:13 GMT -5
First post: not sure how this works. I have Maggie MMGs and run a pair of Martin Logan Dynamo 300 subs from my XSP-1. The Maggie's are powered by a Emotiva XPA-2, which seems to be enough amp for any listening level. The ML have an 8" woofer with a large port, and seem to be fast enough to keep pace with the Maggies, as I do not hear any boominess or muddied bass. The ML's are crossed over at 50 Hz, just wanted the undertones and did not expect anything more, but they'll shake the house (our Wii's receiver bar can be shaken off the top of the shelf, just need some Return to Forever). Can't see why more sub would be needed unless you have a very large room to fill (our room 16 x 16 x 8). The speakers before the Maggies were a 5-speaker NHT B5 system with the M5's for center and rears with NHT stands, with one sub amp. The (2) 12" woofers in that speaker system was overkill.
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Post by flatpicker on Jan 5, 2015 22:51:24 GMT -5
First post: not sure how this works. I have Maggie MMGs and run a pair of Martin Logan Dynamo 300 subs from my XSP-1. The Maggie's are powered by a Emotiva XPA-2, which seems to be enough amp for any listening level. The ML have an 8" woofer with a large port, and seem to be fast enough to keep pace with the Maggies, as I do not hear any boominess or muddied bass. The ML's are crossed over at 50 Hz, just wanted the undertones and did not expect anything more, but they'll shake the house (our Wii's receiver bar can be shaken off the top of the shelf, just need some Return to Forever). Can't see why more sub would be needed unless you have a very large room to fill (our room 16 x 16 x 8). The speakers before the Maggies were a 5-speaker NHT B5 system with the M5's for center and rears with NHT stands, with one sub amp. The (2) 12" woofers in that speaker system was overkill. Seems like, working good... welcome... I looked up the ML subs a couple of days ago... good candidates, though I'm still leaning toward the svs sb13u, and probably will wait till I can get the dual deal. I've also been driving the Maggies with an XPA-2, but just got the notice today that my SA-250 is on the way, so I get to have an opinion on that outcome soon. The home sound stage is reaching new plateaus... unfortunately for us though, our room is full of weirdness in terms of angles, lots of windows, and hardwood floor, and is approx 14x24, with a gable ceiling, that is not symmetrical and an open stairway on one end, and also with a bay window extrusion on one wall. I'm yet to buy any room treatments, but I have some identified. |
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Post by emotifan on Jan 6, 2015 14:35:27 GMT -5
I just looked at the SVS site. Interesting looking products. Considering your price range you might want to consider the Paradigm Seismic 110s or any Paradigms for that matter, for the option of using their PBK (Perfect Bass Kit) subwoofer tuning kit. For 99.00 dollars you get a mic, mic stand and software (Windows only unfortunately). It's the same system ML uses. After I ran the program with my subs it really smoothed out the frequency response of the subs dramatically. After running the program the software displays a frequency response graph of what your subs were doing before the adjustment, what they are doing after the adjustment and the reference curve it's trying to match. What's nice is you can place the subs anywhere you want and the software EQs them for your room. And of course EQ is in the digital domain, so no phase problems. This way I can place the subs right by my main speakers where they belong in a stereo sub setup.
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