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Post by deewan on Dec 30, 2014 15:19:20 GMT -5
I've documented my issues with the Dirac mic in another thread, but thought I would start a new thread as there seems to be a few more people starting to have this issue and this dedicated thread may help others with similar issues. The Setup:Plugging in the mic cable and mic to the computer, the c-media driver installs. The mic shows as a device and appears in Windows 7 with the following details...       The Issue:No matter how loud I yell, scream, or whistle, the mic shows no sign of 'hearing' sound in the Sound Window. When I start Dirac, the Dirac software seeings the XMC-1 and the mic. The mic 'hears' nothing from the speakers or the room noise. Speaking into the mic still shows nothing. It's not until I scream at the top of my lungs that the mics shows some signs of hearing sound. But even then, it hears very little sound. Levels with the mic with a quite room:  Levels with the mic when I am screaming as loud as I can directly into the tip of the mic.  Attempted Fixes:I have plugged the mic into two different PC laptops, both running Windows 7. All have the same details and issue as shown above. I have also plugged the mic into a Mac laptop. The mic installs correctly, but again, the mic does not register any sound. So it seems unlikely that the issue is related to hardware or software since it appears to happen across 3 difference computers and two different operating systems. Myself and audiophill both have the exact same issue. I have had my cable replaced (first cable was a known defect) and audiophill I believe has had his mic replaced. The issue has not changed or improved. I called Emotiva and spoke to Damon. He said there are a few user having this issue and he is stumped to what would be causing the issue. He explained the issue and was very sympathetic to the issue. As always I felt this customer service was top notch. He mentioned he has a few other mics and cables sent out and he wanted to wait to hear back from those users before trying something new with me. I agree that action makes sense. As new information is available, I will post it here. |
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 15:52:45 GMT -5
From Lonnie : I am very curious to get to the bottom of what is going on here with the Mics. During production the mics are tested three different times before they are packed up and given the aluminum body they are pretty well protected from damage unless a really loud (as in excess of 120db) sound hits them which can damage the diaphragm. That is pretty unlikely though unless you are yelling into the mic. No offense intended here, but it is a really sensitive mic and yelling into it will damage it. Please don't do that. Lonnie |
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Post by deewan on Dec 30, 2014 16:10:01 GMT -5
Eeek. Well, I guess I will stop yelling into the mic. However, its the only way I can get a reaction out of the mic and the mic was delivered to me that way. So unless its another bad cable, I wasn't doing any damage to the mic that had already been done.
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 16:13:10 GMT -5
Eeek. Well, I guess I will stop yelling into the mic. However, its the only way I can get a reaction out of the mic and the mic was delivered to me that way. So unless its another bad cable, I wasn't doing any damage to the mic that had already been done. Mic = wife Thanks Tony |
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Post by deewan on Dec 30, 2014 16:14:20 GMT -5
I don't think audiophill or I have had both the mic and cable replaced. I think audiophill MAY have a new cable being shipped to him based on the conversation I had with Damon, but don't quote me.
If things aren't resolved shortly, I wold hope Emotiva would test a cable and mic together in their office and then send the pair out to us. That way we would know both work when shipped. If they don't work upon delivery, then I'd gladly ship them back to see if they work once back at Emo HQ. That would certainly narrow down the causes of the problem.
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Post by deewan on Dec 30, 2014 16:15:28 GMT -5
Eeek. Well, I guess I will stop yelling into the mic. However, its the only way I can get a reaction out of the mic and the mic was delivered to me that way. So unless its another bad cable, I wasn't doing any damage to the mic that had already been done. Mic = wife Thanks Tony I do joke with her that she is a soul-less redhead with selective hearing. She knows I am joking and it's all in good fun. |
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Post by ansat on Dec 30, 2014 16:16:13 GMT -5
I do joke with her that she is a soul-less redhead with selective hearing. She knows I am joking and it's all in good fun. Just trying to lighten the mood. Tony  |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 30, 2014 16:19:00 GMT -5
Eeek. Well, I guess I will stop yelling into the mic. However, its the only way I can get a reaction out of the mic and the mic was delivered to me that way. So unless its another bad cable, I wasn't doing any damage to the mic that had already been done. Mic = wife Thanks Tony You mean like that story, "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Mic?" |
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Post by audiophill on Dec 31, 2014 8:18:20 GMT -5
Yes i am waiting for a new cable which is in transit. Guess we take it from there weather it works or not. I can't run Dirac on any other computer as Dirac says i reached my limit of downloads. Its only on 2 computers but after uninstalling and re-installing it Dirac will now only work on the original computer. However of course my mic won't work properly. Just one addition another oddity with mine is where Deewans screen shot shows the mic is hearing nothing unless he screams into it, my mic has blue meter up to the -24 mark showing it's hearing background noise but does not bounce to any sounds and shouting directly into it is the only way to get the meters to move beyond that. Very odd!
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Dec 31, 2014 9:34:49 GMT -5
If the "background noise" you're seeing doesn't bounce (a lot) when you make noise, then it's NOT the background acoustic noise in the room; it's probably electrical noise, which could happen if the microphone or the digitizer is actually broken. Yes i am waiting for a new cable which is in transit. Guess we take it from there weather it works or not. I can't run Dirac on any other computer as Dirac says i reached my limit of downloads. Its only on 2 computers but after uninstalling and re-installing it Dirac will now only work on the original computer. However of course my mic won't work properly. Just one addition another oddity with mine is where Deewans screen shot shows the mic is hearing nothing unless he screams into it, my mic has blue meter up to the -24 mark showing it's hearing background noise but does not bounce to any sounds and shouting directly into it is the only way to get the meters to move beyond that. Very odd! |
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Post by deewan on Dec 31, 2014 12:09:40 GMT -5
If the "background noise" you're seeing doesn't bounce (a lot) when you make noise, then it's NOT the background acoustic noise in the room; it's probably electrical noise, which could happen if the microphone or the digitizer is actually broken. Thanks for the info Keith. That sounds exactly like my problem. The microphone will show some minor bouncing of the levels in Dirac when hooked up. That is why I first thought the mic was working fine. But as soon as I began adjusting the input gain in Dirac and realized it had no impact I began wondering if the mic was defective. Talking and screaming do nothing either to the input levels. Since it sounds like the mic is tested a few times before it is shipped, I am wondering if I have another defective cable and the connections on the XLR side are bad or weak. I emailed Emo this morning offering to ship my mic/cable back to them. I'm waiting to hear back. Even offered to pay for shipping to them on my dime since it's not 100% clear if it is a defective product or if the issue is with my computer/hardware/setup. I just kinda want Dirac to work since I keep reading all these raving reviews about it.  |
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Post by sandbagger on Jan 1, 2015 23:59:50 GMT -5
can anyone point me toward a non genaric driver for XP as mine comes up as a USB Mic not the C Media thing and I have the same problem, basicly no level
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reaper60
Sensei
Music Makes Me Happy!
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Post by reaper60 on Jan 2, 2015 8:40:36 GMT -5
Add me to this list of people with the mic problem. Had my kit for nearly two weeks now and just had the chance to run it New Year's Eve when the house was empty (no dogs to screw up the readings!). I found I could adjust to the -24db mark but even the loudest sounds would only work to register at -23 or so. Not good. Dirac gives errors about being out of range or distances being too great.
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Post by rocky500 on Jan 2, 2015 10:10:06 GMT -5
I saw some Dirac errors. Not sure what they were but the volume/gain was set to high for some of the speakers. I found when adjusting the speakers volumes in Dirac you have to be careful as each slider adjusts all the speakers. I watched Lonnie's video and did not read the manual. Looking at the manual you are checking each speaker down the list and only need to adjust the highest speaker to put it in the green. It does not matter if other speakers are below the greem optimal marks. I thought I needed to adjust each one, but each slider adjusts all of them every time you move any of the sliders. Just thought I would mention this, as I got it wrong. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 2, 2015 10:21:37 GMT -5
Our vendor on the A-to-D converter cables doesn't have a specific XP driver, and they insist that the cable should work fine with whatever driver XP "pulls down". We haven't tested this simply because none of the XP machines we've got here is powerful enough to meet the minimum requirements to run the Dirac software... and Dirac doesn't claim to run on XP anyway. That is one of the things I will be testing (for "academic interest") when/if I get some free time. However, I can tell you that the microphone and cable are "standard", so you should be able to try them using some kind of normal audio recording software - and they should work just like you'd expect. (I believe Audacity can meter and record, and it's free.)
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 2, 2015 10:50:07 GMT -5
Yeah, that may be slightly counter-intuitive. The Dirac software will usually show you red stripes on the recording stripe if it clips badly, but sometimes it will give the "too many clips" warning even when the levels on the strip look reasonable; presumably it is clipping seriously for very short periods which, for whatever reason, don't hit the recorded strip display. If this happens, simply turn it down a few dB and try again. (You WILL get a different error if you turn it down too far and the test signal gets "lost" in the room noise; otherwise you're OK.) Another thing that's not obvious is that you CAN adjust the levels between sets of measurements. (In other words, if you're on your fifth measurement point, and it clips, you can use the BACK button to get back to the screen where you set the levels, then go forward again and continue. If you do that, the previous measurements that were completed successfully will still be there and you won't have to do them again. YOu'll be back at the point where you start the measurement that clipped. The fact that you changed levels BETWEEN sets of test sweeps doesn't mess up the overall results. I saw some Dirac errors. Not sure what they were but the volume/gain was set to high for some of the speakers. I found when adjusting the speakers volumes in Dirac you have to be careful as each slider adjusts all the speakers. I watched Lonnie's video and did not read the manual. Looking at the manual you are checking each speaker down the list and only need to adjust the highest speaker to put it in the green. It does not matter if other speakers are below the greem optimal marks. I thought I needed to adjust each one, but each slider adjusts all of them every time you move any of the sliders. Just thought I would mention this, as I got it wrong. |
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Post by ansat on Jan 2, 2015 11:02:49 GMT -5
Another thing that's not obvious is that you CAN adjust the levels between sets of measurements. (In other words, if you're on your fifth measurement point, and it clips, you can use the BACK button to get back to the screen where you set the levels, then go forward again and continue. If you do that, the previous measurements that were completed successfully will still be there and you won't have to do them again. YOu'll be back at the point where you start the measurement that clipped. The fact that you changed levels BETWEEN sets of test sweeps doesn't mess up the overall results. Keith, Really? I would of thought there would be some miscalculations. Tony |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Post by Lonnie on Jan 2, 2015 11:27:23 GMT -5
Turn off AGC, you don't want your computer doing an automatic gain control.
This will cause all kinds of level mismatches, low level indications and such. If the AGC is turned on, then the computer can be internally reducing the level of the mic to fit whatever level MS has set as its optimum.
Another by product of the AGC is that when Dirac sets the levels for each speaker, you can get really weird settings, like et center or surrounds being 10 to 12db low or higher than the rest.
Lonnie
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Post by audiophill on Jan 2, 2015 13:02:15 GMT -5
Turned off AGC no change in my mic. A new cable arrives today. Ill try the new cable today and report back. I have to work 3-11 so if it dont come before i leave for work i'll check it when i get out at 11pm.
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jenix
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Post by jenix on Jan 2, 2015 13:17:52 GMT -5
Turn off AGC, you don't want your computer doing an automatic gain control. This will cause all kinds of level mismatches, low level indications and such. If the AGC is turned on, then the computer can be internally reducing the level of the mic to fit whatever level MS has set as its optimum. Another by product of the AGC is that when Dirac sets the levels for each speaker, you can get really weird settings, like et center or surrounds being 10 to 12db low or higher than the rest. Lonnie Lonnie, Would you please revisit this post. I totally agree that it seems logical that the AGC could be influencing DIRAC and should be turned OFF, but the default device load of the driver in Win 7 has it ON. Also if you turn it off you MUST then set the mic level in the next tab. There were no instructions about this in the DIRAC info so I'm sure that many, if not most of us who have run DIRAC probably ran it in AGC. I got wonderful results from DIRAC, but maybe I was just lucky. However, based on your speaker level comment I did just go back and check my levels with a pretty decent SPL meter and found my levels perfectly matched in DIRAC setting. So, I guess the biggest question is, should we disable AGC and re-run and if so, where should we set the mic level in the driver tab? Thanks for all you do for your customers. One other quick issue, you might recall my discussions with Keith about apparent CEC issues with my XMC connected to Pioneer Pro111 FD. This was causing my concerns with standby audio. Keith had told me that you guys were working on a CEC refinement. Any news on that? Thanks again ! |
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