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Post by Priapulus on Dec 27, 2015 9:45:21 GMT -5
Maybe I'm missing something here, but I must admit, I'm a bit perplexed at how the statement, "We'll be making it available at our cost..." can be interpreted in more than one way. Most businessmen would interpret that to mean wholesale, not retail. That EMO implied not to markup the manufactured cost price, by adding in a profit. The question is whether EMO is actually selling at cost, or at retail; are they "spinning" again? From the reaction by most people here, most people don't believe that $300 is the board's cost, but rather full retail. Accountants can spin the numbers to give any result you want. It's not about the math, but about credibility. Sincerely /b |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 27, 2015 9:55:51 GMT -5
Most businessmen would interpret that to mean wholesale, not retail. That EMO implied not to markup the manufactured cost price, by adding in a profit. The question is whether EMO is actually selling at cost, or at retail; are they "spinning" again? From the reaction by most people here, most people don't believe that $300 is the board's cost, but rather full retail. Accountants can spin the numbers to give any result you want. It's not about the math, but about credibility. Fully agree...and, since I doubt any of us here have access to their books, we can do one of two things: trust them to be truthful or not. If folks believe they are lying, then they should no longer do business with them. I trust them. Mark |
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Post by mshump on Dec 27, 2015 10:07:13 GMT -5
I was hoping for a little cheaper price as was quite a few other people on here. What we need to keep in mind is that Emotiva must have a profit or break even to stay in business.
If Emotiva is paying a tech 15.00 and hour to do this upgrade then the actual cost to Emotiva is probably closer to 50.00 an hour with taxes,insurance, etc. From a business prospective this must come from somewhere. Again if you are not breaking even or profiting your business will not survive.
If I send in my unit from Illinois and Emotiva ships it back, it may cost 35.00 (at Emos rates) Now if one comes in from Sweden the cost to ship it back costs quite a bit more. Emotiva again must figure this into the total price they are charging for this upgrade. So they may make a little off mine but the one from Sweden he loses a little, but in the end it all works out.
Dan also stated that the XMC-1 would be tested before shipping it back. Well the electricity and the tech operating this aren't free also.
The board itself may only cost 10.00 but there was development, assembly fees, transportation costs, etc, which means that the board may actually be 50.00 to 60.00 in all actuality.
Again I do wish this much cheaper, but in reality Emotiva must stay afloat to be a business. Emotiva has for years now given great products at great prices and taken great care of the customer. Most of us have seen on this forum Dan personally jump in a thread and take care of an issue for someone and most likely lost a little money to keep the customer happy.
I don't think Dan is trying to pull the wool over our eyes per say with the 300.00 price tag. Once again Emotiva is a business and has to either profit or break even to stay in business.
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Post by geebo on Dec 27, 2015 10:23:53 GMT -5
cwt, Are you saying if I have a UFL which I do, I will get my board for free?  No. It will be $299. |
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Post by DellaDog on Dec 27, 2015 10:24:56 GMT -5
Of course EMO should charge whatever the market will bear for anything they sell.
EXCEPT, the XMC1 was (a long time ago) introduced as an HDMI 2.0 compliant processor. Till discovered that it wasn't, then promised to be upgradeable to the latest standards at "cost plus" for early adopters. Well, many of us did have 4K capable displays and jumped in early assuming the upgrade path would work itself out.
It has worked itself out, but $300 FEELS like more than cost plus.
Just my FEELING.
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Post by geebo on Dec 27, 2015 10:37:19 GMT -5
Just curious, exactly what is cost plus and what makes something more than cost plus?
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Post by Thunderduck on Dec 27, 2015 10:47:11 GMT -5
My main concern is with the installation. I would prefer not to be without my XMC-1 for the week or so it would take to get to Emotiva and return. On February 26th when Dan made the announcement of the upgrade board, the implication to me anyway was that it was almost preferable that it be done at home. He basically said that all that needed to be done was to remove the top cover, unscrew the board and remove some connectors. The new board would go back into the same space and be connected the same way. Then all that would be required was to re-flash the unit with the provided or downloaded firmware. That was all there was to the process. Sounds very simple to me.
Now I am given the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Emotiva would prefer that the unit be returned to them for upgrade unless you insist on doing it yourself. That sounds like a far cry from removing a couple of screws and connectors.
Guess I will just have to wait and see.
Regards to all,
Steve Attachments:
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 27, 2015 10:55:10 GMT -5
+1
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dmraupp
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Post by dmraupp on Dec 27, 2015 10:58:08 GMT -5
Most businessmen would interpret that to mean wholesale, not retail. That EMO implied not to markup the manufactured cost price, by adding in a profit. The question is whether EMO is actually selling at cost, or at retail; are they "spinning" again? From the reaction by most people here, most people don't believe that $300 is the board's cost, but rather full retail. Accountants can spin the numbers to give any result you want. It's not about the math, but about credibility. Fully agree...and, since I doubt any of us here have access to their books, we can do one of two things: trust them to be truthful or not. If folks believe they are lying, then they should no longer do business with them. I trust them. Mark +1 |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 27, 2015 10:59:04 GMT -5
We have now a service center in Canada but I prefer keep it in house.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 27, 2015 10:59:43 GMT -5
Okay gents, I'll concede what "at my cost" he means is obviously not it's free. However I'm surprised nobody questions whether the product really is at cost. I'm obviously no marketeer but if the board's total cost including labor and shipping is $300 that sounds like TERRIBLE economics for the producer. Even if it includes say an hour of assemblyman's time and shipping.
I think that the comment available at my cost according to Emotiva means their cost to make an upgrade board AVAILABLE. Not that they are offering it to the clients at cost. So if they didn't pay anything at all and just sat there, this board would not exist as an upgrade. Simple as that. It takes money to make a product happen.
So note, I'm not saying they're lying. I never did. In my original post I said this was probably the correct intepretation for Emotiva (though I felt otherwise).
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Post by goodfellas27 on Dec 27, 2015 11:14:52 GMT -5
I would love for them to clarified. I got the XMC-1 knowing that HDMI 2.0 was going to be available for the unit. I already have 4K TV and been waiting to upgrade the board to help pass the encrypted signal; however, $300 for a non-matrix switch board with no video upscaling, is hard to swallow. Specially with a whole AVR with HDMI 2.0 costing almost as much as the $300 plus shipping.
I am hoping the cost to swap it at home it's truly at "their cost".
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Post by frenchyfranky on Dec 27, 2015 11:18:53 GMT -5
The Emo forum lounge is a great way to keep Emo's customers up to date with Emotiva news, and I think Dan Laufman has tried to be transparent as possible with this business decisions but unfortunately the lounge could be also a way to slip.  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 27, 2015 11:19:47 GMT -5
Okay gents, I'll concede what "at my cost" he means is obviously not it's free. However I'm surprised nobody questions whether the product really is at cost. (Middle deleted by Mark) So note, I'm not saying they're lying. I never did. First, glad you concede on the first point. And I don't think you are alone in questioning the cost. As for whether you said they were lying or not, technically you did not. That said, via application of Boolean alegbra, you effectively did. Unless we add in the possibility that Dan forgot he said it would be at cost... Mark |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 27, 2015 11:47:00 GMT -5
Many are focusing on the cost of the physical upgrade board itself and wondering how can a $299 upgrade cost be justified. But there are other costs involved in addition to the actual cost of the hardware. There is labor, overhead, shipping, etc. Look at DAC's - how expensive are the actual chips? Or for that matter all the parts that go into a finished DAC? But again, it isn't just the parts cost but everything it takes to bring those parts to a finished, working product. Calculating cost is not necessarily an objective proposition, either. Like when it comes to allocating what percentage of a company's overhead can be attributed to a specific product. There's an old joke about accountants in which someone asks, what is 2 + 2 and the accountant replies, "what do you want it to be?" That said, my proposal is that we choose a couple of Lounge members to visit Emotiva's headquarters and do an audit to verify the accuracy of $299 as the actual cost of the XMC-1 upgrade. It will be called The XMC-1 Files. So let's choose the members to perform the audit and hopefully they will return safely.   |
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 27, 2015 11:49:51 GMT -5
$299 seems like an absolute bargain to me.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 27, 2015 11:54:24 GMT -5
Okay gents, I'll concede what "at my cost" he means is obviously not it's free. However I'm surprised nobody questions whether the product really is at cost. (Middle deleted by Mark) So note, I'm not saying they're lying. I never did. First, glad you concede on the first point. And I don't think you are alone in questioning the cost. As for whether you said they were lying or not, technically you did not. That said, via application of Boolean alegbra, you effectively did. Unless we add in the possibility that Dan forgot he said it would be at cost... Mark What I'm saying is as far as Emotiva (not me) is concerned they never did or did they forget they said it. Here is what he said: " Also, our HDMI 2.0 card will be out our BEFORE so please don't worry about this either. We'll be making it available at our cost for existing XMC-1 owners. " They said they will MAKE IT AVAILABLE and AT OUR COST. They did not say they will PUT IT UP FOR SALE AT COST PRICE. MAKE IT AVAILABLE AT OUR COST only promises that they will make it available. Not that it is going to be sold at cost price. |
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tesla
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Post by tesla on Dec 27, 2015 12:16:02 GMT -5
No sense bickering about the price like a bunch of old wash-women, is there? Either you feel good about it or you don't. Carping about it won't change it. Let's try to keep this thing in perspective. Hell, $300 USD is dinner and drinks for two at a nice restaurant. Have that dinner at Subway, instead. Buy the upgrade. Be happy.  Cheers! T- |
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dmraupp
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Post by dmraupp on Dec 27, 2015 12:20:23 GMT -5
No sense bickering about the price like a bunch of old wash-women, is there? Either you feel good about it or you don't. Carping about it won't change it. Let's try to keep this thing in perspective. Hell, $300 USD is dinner and drinks for two at a nice restaurant. Have that dinner at Subway, instead. Buy the upgrade. Be happy. Cheers! T- Seriously?That is definitely ones perspective! |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 27, 2015 12:28:36 GMT -5
I'm disappointed, thought it would come gift wrapped with a pretty pink pony.
And all future upgrades too, heck they may as well pay us to install them.
You guys bought a (nearly) flagship model for a great price. Stop complaining and expecting handouts for next to nothing unless your goal is for them to go broke in which case, carry on.
The amount of drama surrounding this whole xmc would put an Italian opera to shame.
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