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Post by minthral on Jan 15, 2016 0:46:10 GMT -5
I got my XMC-1 yesterday and really like it. However, I was exercising today and watching a movie (Ex Machine bluray) on my treadmill using a different (cheaper) setup. Audio settings were "DTS X, DTS X Headphones, and 5.1 English.'
This has me worried...I just bought a new preamp and it doesn't support DTS X or Atmos, yet it seems this is the future and actually NOW.
I read and researched, but its still not clear to me. Is the XMC-1 going to be able to do DTS X and/or Atmos in the future? I know a new HDMI board will allow 2.2 complaint 4k, but how about the new sound formats? Will firmware or hardware upgrades take care of this?
From my research, the answer seems to be 'NO - a new model will be released eventually for DTS X and Atmos because the XMC-1 hardware doesn't support it.' Is this true?
Say if the new formats are not possible. What would happen if I were to get a bluray with DTS X sound and play it on the traditional 7.1 XMC-1? Will it be able to decode so that you get a similar experience minus height speakers?
All I'd want is for XMC-1 to decode DTS X and Atmos correctly so I get the intended sound even though I can't use height speakers...or that the rear channels be assignable to height. Surely this is possible with firmware? Or to upgrade the hardware so it is?
This whole 'changeover to UHD' is frustrating...XMC-1 is great, but no Atmos or DTS X is a downer, especially when Netflix sends you a bluray with these formats and you just bought a new preamp that can't handle it. Big slap in the face.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 15, 2016 1:04:30 GMT -5
The new codecs are backwards compatible. My XMC-1 played my Roger Waters The Wall Blu-Ray just fine and ATMOS was what was selected. What you won't get with the XMC-1 on discs that are encoded with DTS-X and ATMOS is the greater amount of separate channels you would be able to get with a processor equipped to decode them.
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Post by millst on Jan 15, 2016 11:24:53 GMT -5
It's been discussed to death here. It is highly unlikely that the XMC-1 will ever support the new formats. It doesn't have enough outputs to handle all the channels. The best we could hope for is something like swapping the rears for ceilings.
The future product that will support them is supposed to come out this year, but it's going to cost a lot more. Probably around $5k. Not to mention the additional amplifier channels and speakers you need.
If you have to have these things, then return/sell your XMC-1 and pick up something else. Otherwise, be happy knowing that the codecs are backwards compatible, as stiehl11 noted. The XMC-1 is a great 7.2 channel processor.
-tm
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Post by geebo on Jan 15, 2016 11:42:58 GMT -5
The new codecs are backwards compatible. My XMC-1 played my Roger Waters The Wall Blu-Ray just fine and ATMOS was what was selected. What you won't get with the XMC-1 on discs that are encoded with DTS-X and ATMOS is the greater amount of separate channels you would be able to get with a processor equipped to decode them. OT, but what did you think of that Blu Ray? |
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Geronimo
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Post by Geronimo on Jan 15, 2016 11:48:30 GMT -5
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Post by doc1963 on Jan 15, 2016 12:31:54 GMT -5
From a hardware perspective, the XMC-1 certainly "can" do Dolby Atmos, but only at the minimum 5.1.2 configuration. Dan made a point early on in the discussions of Atmos on the XMC-1 that he did not want to do a "half-baked" version of Atmos, but would rather wait to introduce it on a more capable platform where it can be "done properly".
Since then, he has commented (and I don't recall the particular thread) that his position has somewhat "softened" on the matter. So, I wouldn't necessarily exclude the possibility (albeit remote) of a "basic" Atmos configuration coming to a future update.
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Post by minthral on Jan 15, 2016 12:54:29 GMT -5
I discovered that stereo music sounds best simply going HTPC > Stealth DC-1 > XPA-2 amp. XMC-1 doesn't seem to improve things...in fact 'Reference Stereo' mode turns it all off and that's the biggest improvement. This new to me because its the first time where I have a dedicated AMP and DAC and in the past I used an AV Receiver to make music sound better. Its good that XMC-1 has fully balanced stereo inputs to bypass everything. Only 3k+/flagship pre-amps have this, but you can also get a balanced XLR switch for 300-500.
Seems that I need a pre-amp only for games and movies. XMC-1 has games covered because they all do PCM for 1-7 channels , however since all new movies are coming out as Atmos/ DTS, the XMC-1 (as much as I like it) doesn't seem like a good choice for that today. Even if you don't have height speakers, there are advantages to the formats. Or am I missing something?
I'm stuck feeling that I HAVE to upgrade right after purchasing, which isn't good. XMC-1 may be a great value at 2k if we were still in 5.1 and 7.1 world...but otherwise seems like it should be cheaper since its missing the new formats, which are getting pushed hard and fast to be the new standard in UHD.
The Anthem AVM 60 is appealing at 3k MSRP. Perhaps it can bought for only $500 more than the XMC-1 in a few months. The Marantz 8802 is always an option and can be had for 3k as well...though Denon/Marantz doesn't have much appeal for me and I wouldn't want to go that route again. I can't imagine what Emotiva can release for 5k that would be considered better than those, which are available today?
Anyone know if I keep the XMC-1 and a new Emotiva Atmos/DTS X pre amp is released next year, will I be able 'trade-up' from the XMC-1? Seems the new pre-amp is coming out this year maybe I should just return my XMC-1 and wait?
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Post by minthral on Jan 15, 2016 13:07:12 GMT -5
I have gone through a lot of that. The conclusion seems there is no Atmos or DTS X for XMC-1...nor should you buy it for that..and a bunch of people arguing over whether the format is good or not. Fact is, these formats ARE the future of UHD and all sound in movies in the home. They already standards today and used in theaters...and ALL new blurays from Netflix have them. Arguing the merits of why you DON'T need them at home is plain silly, bias, and denying reality to justify your purchase. It doesn't matter if you don't have (or want) height speakers...the new formats still offer audio advantages. Comparing XMC-1 to Marantz AV7702 is wrong IMO. The latter is more of a feature box with arguably cheaper quality and sound. I might be wrong because i haven't look enough into the specific Marantz unit though. |
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Post by casey01 on Jan 15, 2016 13:40:07 GMT -5
I purchased a Yamaha CX-A5000 pre-pro about a year and a half ago and although it had a series of firmware updates including HDMI 2.0, when Dolby Atmos and the forthcoming DTS-X formats were announced I inquired directly through Yamaha about the possible availability of a firmware update for these surround formats and was advised that it would not be the case. Like every other manufacturer, they would be available in the newer AVRs and pre-pros and in the case of Yamaha, the new CX-A5100. As with any new format(and as I was told through Yamaha CS), it is about the licensing and since this has to be established well in advance of the introduction of the product and the newer internal hardware required to accommodate it, at the time of the previous generations of models introduction, Dolby Atmos and DTS-X were unavailable, so, in my case, the CX-A5000 was not going to be backward compatible. In the case of Emotiva, I would expect the situation to be no different.
Let's face it, Dolby and DTS are not going to give it away for free anyway and it is also a chance for the manufacturers to sell new products.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Jan 15, 2016 14:20:59 GMT -5
The new codecs are backwards compatible. My XMC-1 played my Roger Waters The Wall Blu-Ray just fine and ATMOS was what was selected. What you won't get with the XMC-1 on discs that are encoded with DTS-X and ATMOS is the greater amount of separate channels you would be able to get with a processor equipped to decode them. OT, but what did you think of that Blu Ray? Production and sound were very good and, of course, the material was excellent. My only complaint would be the additional footage of Roger's trip through Europe interspersed throughout the show. I feel it broke the flow of the piece. But, they're in their own chapters so you can skip over them as they come up. You can borrow it if you'd like. |
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Post by geebo on Jan 15, 2016 14:32:20 GMT -5
OT, but what did you think of that Blu Ray? Production and sound were very good and, of course, the material was excellent. My only complaint would be the additional footage of Roger's trip through Europe interspersed throughout the show. I feel it broke the flow of the piece. But, they're in their own chapters so you can skip over them as they come up. You can borrow it if you'd like. I think I may take you up on that. Thanks. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 15, 2016 17:01:09 GMT -5
minthral, I'm taking it that the XMC-1 for you was bought on a whim? I say this because Dolby Atmos/DTS:X has certainly been in the AV news world for quite some time now and the XMC-1 has never been touted as having the ability to decode either. What you haven't told us is if you plan on installing ceiling speakers to accommodate Dolby Atmos/DTS:X? If not then personally I don't believe you can do better than the XMC-1 for 7.2 surround and most importantly sound quality as well as having DIRAC for room correction. If yes, then returning the XMC-1 in the 30 trial period would be your course of action. As for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, both are backwards compatible as they both contain a discrete 7.1 track along with the ceiling speaker channels, so the XMC-1 and every other processor/receiver on the market that can't fully decode Atmos/DTS:X will either decode the base 7.1 track or downmix to 5.1 for those processors/receivers that are only 5.1. Personally I'm not interested at this time in spending more money on ceiling speakers as well as installing them, spending more money on power amplifiers to accommodate these extra speakers and running speaker wire for each additional speaker nor is my home theater area able to accommodate these(I barely have enough room for 7.2 as it is). I do understand that if done right(and as Dan Laufman has said not half baked) Atmos/DTS:X can be an eye opening experience, but I stand by my statements that I believe this to be a niche market in the AV world where maybe at most 5% of the true home theater world will actually spend the time/money/labor to properly set these object based codecs up in the home. More power to those that have and if you plan on it, I think a good place to start would be PM'ing "bmoney" and get some ideas from him as he has gone this route.
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Post by minthral on Jan 15, 2016 19:41:15 GMT -5
minthral, I'm taking it that the XMC-1 for you was bought on a whim? I say this because Dolby Atmos/DTS:X has certainly been in the AV news world for quite some time now and the XMC-1 has never been touted as having the ability to decode either. What you haven't told us is if you plan on installing ceiling speakers to accommodate Dolby Atmos/DTS:X? If not then personally I don't believe you can do better than the XMC-1 for 7.2 surround and most importantly sound quality as well as having DIRAC for room correction. If yes, then returning the XMC-1 in the 30 trial period would be your course of action. As for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, both are backwards compatible as they both contain a discrete 7.1 track along with the ceiling speaker channels, so the XMC-1 and every other processor/receiver on the market that can't fully decode Atmos/DTS:X will either decode the base 7.1 track or downmix to 5.1 for those processors/receivers that are only 5.1. Personally I'm not interested at this time in spending more money on ceiling speakers as well as installing them, spending more money on power amplifiers to accommodate these extra speakers and running speaker wire for each additional speaker nor is my home theater area able to accommodate these(I barely have enough room for 7.2 as it is). I do understand that if done right(and as Dan Laufman has said not half baked) Atmos/DTS:X can be an eye opening experience, but I stand by my statements that I believe this to be a niche market in the AV world where maybe at most 5% of the true home theater world will actually spend the time/money/labor to properly set these object based codecs up in the home. More power to those that have and if you plan on it, I think a good place to start would be PM'ing "bmoney" and get some ideas from him as he has gone this route. No I did my research and determined the XMC-1 is the best to buy for various reasons...Atmos/DTS X wasn't my focus. I wasn't expecting that content to be ready for these new formats anytime soon. I thought this was a thing to come in the future...however its revelation when you get a bluray with DTS X from Netflix (oddly enough no receivers even have DTS S today). I called Emotiva and got my concerns addressed...seems that the XMC-1 will handle Atmos/DTS X to a traditional 7.1 or 5.1 and sound very similar. Its all backwards compatible. End of the day, the new formats decoded in home theaters aren't exactly a revolution in sound....they are more useful for theaters with like 6 speakers on each side etc. Not much Atmos can do to direct sound to the right when you only got a single right speaker...end up being the same. The only difference would be the use of height speakers...where the effect might be different based on the content. Still, would be nice if XMC could decode the new format and offer using height instead of rear... kind of like PIIz (which I liked). |
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Erwin.BE
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jan 20, 2016 13:27:55 GMT -5
Glad to read that you have found out by now that you need to install extra speakers to benefit from Atmos or DTS:X...
And while 5.1.2 would be beneficial over 7.1 for some people (namely those who struggle to insert Rear Surrounds), it really is not worth the bother, is it? In these things, quantity does count. Go 12 channel or go home...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 13:36:41 GMT -5
Glad to read that you have found out by now that you need to install extra speakers to benefit from Atmos or DTS:X... And while 5.1.2 would be beneficial over 7.1 for some people (namely those who struggle to insert Rear Surrounds), it really is not worth the bother, is it? In these things, quantity does count. Go 12 channel or go home... very uniformed response |
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Post by bolle on Jan 20, 2016 15:17:07 GMT -5
Glad to read that you have found out by now that you need to install extra speakers to benefit from Atmos or DTS:X... And while 5.1.2 would be beneficial over 7.1 for some people (namely those who struggle to insert Rear Surrounds), it really is not worth the bother, is it? In these things, quantity does count. Go 12 channel or go home... very uniformed response Your Response truly is much more helpful - not.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 15:21:53 GMT -5
Your Response truly is much more helpful - not. Has he tried 5.2.2 vs 7.1? Has he experienced it as "not worth it" ? It's like me saying auro 3D is a waste of time. Even though I have never heard it lol |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 20, 2016 16:55:42 GMT -5
I've just got to drop in my two cents here.....  I finally went to see the new Star Wars movie last weekend - in iMax 3D (at the Carmike Thoroughbred theater here in Franklin). I sat in about the sixth row - near the front. To put it simply, the picture quality was great, and the sound was very good too. (And, to me, that's what really mattered.) There were a few occasional things going on behind you, and a few things whizzing over and around your head now and then. (Apparently iMax has their own version of surround with height.) But.... Ya 'know.... I really wouldn't have missed the few overhead FX, and, while there was some ambiance, most of the action took place in front of you. In fact, I can't say for sure whether they were running 5.something or 7.something or something else entirely... So, to be blunt, I really still can't get all excited about height speakers.... But that's just me.... |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 20, 2016 17:14:18 GMT -5
......in iMax 3D. ......I sat in about the sixth row - near the front...... Yikes man, those are like the worst seats in the house for IMAX for us. On the contrary, I like sitting so my view is near the center of the screen. In every IMAX theater I've been to here in the Dayton Ohio area, this means sitting way more towards the back. The theaters have 2 rows of handicapped levels, 1 way down front, and one way in back. For Star Wars we sat in the very last row, right before that handicapped level. Behind the handicapped level there are like 3 or 4 rows against the back wall. Where we sat is prime seating. No looking up, and our view was almost dead center of the screen. In this position, the surrounds are very "in the mix", much more than I'm sure you got being so far front and so far down from the ceiling. This is assuming that the theaters are built similarly of course, which might not be the case. Make sure you go to the Star Wars poll thread and place your vote. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/45240/rate-star-wars-force-awakens |
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Post by sycraft on Jan 20, 2016 17:20:21 GMT -5
You must have better IMAX theaters than we do. Ours are still just 7.1 and they crank the sound so loud I have to wear earplugs . I enjoyed the visual spectacle of Star Wars in the theater but I'll have to wait for it on Blu-Ray to enjoy the audio on my own system. |
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